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Post by blackhammer on Aug 17, 2015 15:31:28 GMT -6
Got a deer hunter from the Twin Cities who will pay to have coyote trapped,but no trapping Oct or Nov. His land is about 25 miles away. Don't know much else. Before I talk to him I want to have a price. It aint going to be cheap. Ideas?
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Post by RdFx on Aug 17, 2015 15:57:10 GMT -6
$250 set up, $100 per yote, plus mileage for a starter !
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2015 17:11:42 GMT -6
Since you can trap in December and the fur is certainly saleable, at least it is for me, how do you adjust your price if you keep the fur you catch?
I've always wondered about this "set-up" fee RdFx mentions. Offhand I figure it's the trapper's way of getting paid for scouting & setting BUT it does strike me as sort of getting a tip before you produce your service. I mean the whole reason for hiring a trapper is to kill coyotes(in this case) and depending on the agreement, is getting paid per coyote. In order to catch and kill coyote the trapper has to scout and set traps BUT until he catches a coyote, he hasn't fulfilled his part of the agreement!
If for some reason the trapper doesn't produce, does he give this "set-up" fee back? A property owner I know is going through a similar situation with a beaver . He told me a 3 successive teams of supposed trappers have been unsuccessful trying to kill this beaver since spring. Two teams wanted him to pay a "set-up" fee and he refused but in turn offered a good chunk of change for the beaver. So, what if he'd paid them whatever "set-up" fee they asked for and they can't/didn't catch the beaver, can't/didn't produce, and didn't fulfill the agreement, is that just tough-titty on the property owner?
The beaver have a bank den in a sand pit bank and a run dug about 15' long connecting a 3' deep ditch which is dammed. The property owner's daughter and granddaughter walk around this pit every night and actually watch the beaver swim through this run 2-3 times a week!! So in this scenario, a set-up fee would be the property owner repeatedly paying for a non-producing service!
**In addition, I ask the property owner what kind of traps were all these nimrods using and he said they looked like my coyote traps! I described what a 330 looks like and he said he'd never seen anything like that.
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Post by bobbrennan1 on Aug 17, 2015 18:03:29 GMT -6
It depends ! How much land, 200 acres or 2000? How much money can he afford? How long does he want you there? How many coyotes does he think are there? Can you stay there for a couple weeks while you trap? Does he have trail cameras out so you know how many coyotes are there?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 17, 2015 19:16:00 GMT -6
What is his goal? He just wants coyotes removed? more will filter right back in, what fawns he had the coyotes have run thru by now for the MOST part. get some good snow and they could cause more issues come winter.
Does he want you there now? Or December and January?
The last thing ADC people worry about is a 35.00 coyote fur. What is the goal and objective to pay for coyote removal?
In all honesty calling in September is some of the best easiest times to call in all those new pups and if he is paying you a per coyote fee, calling can remove coyotes and make fast money on a good stand plus have some traps working.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 18, 2015 8:07:44 GMT -6
I charge $125 set up, and $150 per coyote.
but that's for specific coyotes- ie he sees 1 in his calf pasture every morning- or tearing up wrapped round bales, or taking ducks etc
the $125 set up charge not only covers scouting and initial setup, but also covers those days when you have no coyotes-
I just had a badger job- on smaller animals its $75 set up, and same for a catch- I found the borrow in the shed, fresh tracks, etc- I set up- checked traps for 6 days and zero activity- no other dens- it was obvious as badgers do, this one moved on- yet, it took me 7 trips to determine that for sure (after the 3rd day I knew, but giving value for the money)- so at 475 I lost money, but at least paid most of my expenses, and the landowner was very happy with me trying. IF the badger would have returned later (3 weeks and not so far) I would have waived my set up fee 2nd time around.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 18, 2015 16:47:38 GMT -6
Denning in the early summer and looking at kills is specific coyotes, just catching and charging a fee per coyote sounds great in theory but until some get paying you 125.00 or 200 per coyote and the kills keep comming you have a producer that is not going to be very happy.
Plenty of work goes into finding the "right" coyotes. Locating, checking water sources and finding the dens are all key things to stop depredating coyotes in the summer. Without taking the dens much is left to chance. Some think killing the adults is good enough, I can tell you from past experience rarely does that stop much at all for any period of time. Unless done really early on before those pups are weened. Come mId July they abandon those denning holes and start finding lay up spots for those pups and Those pups become more Mobil as August rolls into September.
The bottom line is one must meet the needs of the landowner and producer and that can range a lot depending on what the outcome is and the resource one is protecting from further depredation.
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Post by RdFx on Aug 18, 2015 17:20:58 GMT -6
tc39 did you ever work under Frank Turkowski ? ;>)
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Post by trappnman on Aug 19, 2015 5:47:58 GMT -6
TC- you are quite wrong, insofar as talking about MY area. its not a problem in any way to be specific, on a specific coyote. and the reason is simple- we have almost 0% predation on livestock here. That's right- about 0%.
so its not only easy to be on the specific coyote, but most times, pretty much every time- I'm directed to exactly where that coyote is coming and going.
coyotes, unless tearing up bales or taking birds, are more a perceived problem for farmers than a real problem- basically they see a regular visitor, and they want him gone. most times, the coyote is caught on first night.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 7:49:34 GMT -6
TC- you are quite wrong, insofar as talking about MY area. its not a problem in any way to be specific, on a specific coyote. and the reason is simple- we have almost 0% predation on livestock here. That's right- about 0%. so its not only easy to be on the specific coyote, but most times, pretty much every time- I'm directed to exactly where that coyote is coming and going. coyotes, unless tearing up bales or taking birds, are more a perceived problem for farmers than a real problem- basically they see a regular visitor, and they want him gone. most times, the coyote is caught on first night. Yes, my area as well. I think this is another good example of differences between locals/areas AND reasons for removal even though trapping the same species. My area is vastly different then Steve's so it's certainly far removed from TC's experience in ADC as is the reasoning in coyote removal. In my local and within my fur trapping area I have 3 deer hunting property owners who pay me to trap coyotes and pay me per coyote. They understand that the coyote can't be eradicated from their 80-500 acres but the theory is that for every coyote removed, there will be proportional more deer(fawns) and small game that would have been eaten but now are available to the owner. Basically, I'm knocking back coyote numbers that hunt the property but with the understanding there will be continued maintenance in reducing coyote numbers due to backfilling. This process has been noticeably successful according to the property owners and is why I'm invited back every year. If I kill 15 coyote in a mile section, those 15 coyote ate so many pounds of meat a day which after my trapping now is available to the property owners whether it's fawn survival or small game being able to multiply that would have been recycled in coyote poop! It's not rocket science, the fewer coyote eating, the more food still living, the more game to multiply, the more game available to the property owner! Now it could be argued that the backfilling makes the "knocking back" a waste of time but I don't believe that for a minute at least in my local where I don't have coyote swarming to take over a property! I remember BW's photo of 13 coyote in a tight little area, that photo represents a coyote population that is as foreign to my local as the dark side of the moon!  That's why I ask about the set-up fee, in my situation it's understood that I'm knocking back numbers not eradicating. So I trap as long as agreed upon, as long as season allows, or until the property owner and I agree or have agreed to stop. If I haven't caught as many coyote as the property owner thinks should have been, well tough-titty for me because I won't be invited back. So, do I deserve a set-up fee just for being there because that's the way it sounds in my case? I don't think so because I'd feel I'm screwing the property owner and I'd certainly bet with my owners, so would they!!!  Hopefully I wasn't too redundent in this reply because write what I'm thinking at a moment. |
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Post by wileycoyote300 on Aug 19, 2015 8:44:07 GMT -6
If I kill 15 coyote in a mile section,
what part of texas do you live,thats a lot of coyotes.Never are you on the Mexican border?
Joe |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 10:37:57 GMT -6
If I kill 15 coyote in a mile section,
what part of texas do you live,thats a lot of coyotes.Never are you on the Mexican border?
Joe Midland MI not Midland, TX Yes, those came off two properties 3/4 mile apart one of which was a 500 acre deer hunting property and the other the one and only dairy operation within 30 miles. The DNR advised the owners of the deer hunting property to contact me to "knock-back" the coyote population and I was lucky enough to also get permission on the diary operation. Since that first trapping of the two I only catch 3-6 between the two. The deer hunting property owners are ecstatic with the lack of coyote on their cameras and lack of sign. I did not charge the deer hunting property owner because the two properties just helped extend the one loop. Everybody happy-happy!  After my 1st reply I remembered when I was hired to kill manged coyote that were harassing ponies and livestock belonging to a petting zoo for school children in late January several years ago. The farmer had seen a pack of 5 coyotes in the middle of the day several times in the corrals chasing and they all looked very nasty he said. In addition, folks just passing by had stopped in and told him they were seeing these 5 coyotes running around his buildings. The farmer and a neighbor told me between the two of them they pay $50/per coyote regardless whether or not they were manged. I told them I would not guarantee I would catch all of the manged coyote and told them I'd trap the property for two weeks. The clay ground was froze 8" deep so I used a concrete drill to get my anchors in and drilled pilot holes for spikes to bed my traps. Snow was 4'-6" deep and blowing because this was out in the open fields. Of the 8 coyotes I caught i that time period, 5 were manged. When I pulled-off there were a group of 3 still crossing the property but were extremely erratic in their travels across. Nobody ever saw coyotes chasing and harassing the farmers livestock since that time. Everybody happy-happy. I now trap this property every year since even though it out of my way, it's the only property I can trap coyote on during firearm deer season. So in the scenario I just related, would the set-up fee have been a hedge for the trapper if he failed for some reason to kill the manged coyote, or any coyote for that matter? You see that's what bothers me about the set-up fee, you haven't produced a product, yet you demand $$ just for being on the property. Wouldn't it be better to be more up front with the payee and ask for a higher $/per animal? I put myself in the payee's shoes and I pay some $$ for a trapper to show up and he doesn't meet whatever expectations you have agreed upon and leaves with the payees $$ such as the beaver deal I described previously. I took 8 coyote off the deer hunting property that year and this photo shows 2 of a triple. The third was about 100yds further along the old 2-track-  On the diary farm 3/4 mile east during the same time period I took 7 and in thephoto you see #5 of the 7 with four catch circles around him-  |
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Post by trappnman on Aug 19, 2015 12:29:43 GMT -6
lets look at a beaver job I had- A beaver coming into the nuke plants cooling canal.
these canals come in from the Mississippi- so there is a d**e between the marsh, and the canal.
beaver occasionally get in the habit of coming across the d**e, and cutting small willows in the canal edges- these float down, sink, and clog screens. This activity occurs randomly, certainly not daily.
last time I went- it was $300 to set up and $300 a beaver - and I was promptly sent a contract for up to $2000-
I had to check those traps for 3 weeks- every 3rd day- a drive of 60 miles round trip- before I caught that one and only beaver. and then once there, take 1/2 to an hour waiting for security and jumping through hoops-
if I was going to get paid for just the result of that 1 beaver- I would not have taken the job- because that beaver might or might not have returned- it did...3 weeks later
so $600 to remove that beaver- yet the last time they had to shut down, the guy told me (to clean the screens of willows and the sand buildup on them) it was a half million in start up costs.
and I wouldn't have even tried w/o a set up to cover my time and expenses.
and I've never had anyone complain about set up fees- in part because the rural area I work understands time is money- and that me coming out there for a day or two to scout, setup, etc costs ME time and money-let alone the days I don't catch the target (s)
all costs are up front- no surprises for them, or me.
I've had beaver jobs completed in a night, others longer than the 3 weeks mentioned above.
when I trap ADC as incidental work- I don't charge set ups (trapping badger when I'm gophering for example) but then the farmer clearly understands- I'm doing it at my convenience - if he wants it gone as a priority- then he's hiring me for that particular job.
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Post by wileycoyote300 on Aug 19, 2015 17:16:37 GMT -6
what part of texas do you live,thats a lot of coyotes.Never are you on the Mexican border?
Joe Midland MI not Midland, TXsounds like you have as many yotes as Midland tx,or the Mexican border.good for you.sure are easy to catch when you have so many.you must take many hundreds each year with the population you have. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2015 17:30:50 GMT -6
Midland MI not Midland, TXsounds like you have as many yotes as Midland tx,or the Mexican border.good for you.sure are easy to catch when you have so many.you must take many hundreds each year with the population you have. You lost me! What have I written that would give you the impression I take 100's & 100's of coyotes a year unless you mistakenly think every property I trap gives up 7-8 coyote every year?  I don't know if I'd really like that because of all the skinning I'd have to be do! I will say this though Wiley, because of my coyote population, I've learned how to glean the coyotes off my properties! |
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Post by wileycoyote300 on Aug 19, 2015 23:55:49 GMT -6
never:What have I written that would give you the impression I take 100's & 100's of coyotes a year.
nothing you have written and I have read most of it. 
Joe |
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Post by trappnman on Aug 20, 2015 5:30:50 GMT -6
you kind of sound like a smart ass "joe"- perhaps you could share your coyote knowledge- or are you just a typer?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 20, 2015 7:46:25 GMT -6
Neve did r work under Mr Turowaski.
Coyotes are coyotes good coyote habitat will have fill in except for all but a short period of time during the year..
Timely removal yields the best benefits and results I don't care if livestock or wildlife one is looking to protect. Just the facts.
One big name trapper was trying to convince me and others on a site his fall fur trapping for 3 weeks has a big impact on livestock depredation next spring and summer by trapping only, keep the area void pretty much by him trapping 3 weeks in October ok? WS had nothing to add to that at all LOL. Yes his trapping takes place in a state and area WS works.
If your fall fur trapping coyotes and trying to save max fawns for recruitment well I can tell you many have already died. Sure in deep snow you can have a minimal impact on what takes place then but only for a brief period in time .
Again if people want to pay you to trap coyotes great, yet before I would take on any ADC job I would want to know goals and objectives first. Many times fur season and ADC do not over lap for best results is all I am saying.
If you have a suppressed coyote population to begin with then the results will be skewed in ones favor if you have a normal balanced population the results and objectives won't jive much by prime fur season for best results on recruitment
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2015 7:57:18 GMT -6
I had sort of the converse of this thread happen to me yesterday. A farmer denied me permission because he likes coyote to kill all the deer they can as well as any small varmints that eat his crops! Dead serious about it too!
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Post by trappnman on Aug 20, 2015 9:35:54 GMT -6
I was denied permission from a dairy farmer because he asked if coyotes ate gophers, I said they did at times- and same reason, more coyotes less gophers.
a few years later he switched to sheep...
and paid me that summer cause a pair were killing lambs.
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