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Post by trappnman on Sept 13, 2007 7:14:33 GMT -6
Is there any lock, that consistently reduces coon damage?
I know, neck snare them- and am trying- but...
and you all know the but....
I've tried about every lock out there. Over the years waiting for snaring here, I've been given and bought a lot of different snare types and combos, and am trying them all out.
First I thought a real small lock was the answer, than began to think a big washer was the key- but overall, nothing seems to standout more than the others.
For the guys that snare a lot of coon- is there any lock that you find works better than others?
I do find bigger cable to help
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Post by coonhangman1 on Sept 13, 2007 7:30:58 GMT -6
Good Question Steve, I'm looking forward to the answers as well.
My best season I snared like 35-40 coon, running a line before school. I ran kill poles, 3/32 cable ,about half penny locks and half "sure locks" I believe. It seemed the penny lock would dig in more than the sure lock. The sure lock would sit on top of the fur more. I plan on trying some larger washer locks this year. Just my observation in my small experience.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 13, 2007 7:36:49 GMT -6
Heres another question- does the season make a difference?
All my coon snaring has been Jan-Feb... and at that point, the fur is at the verge of deteriorating as it is.
Is damage less early season?
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Post by garman on Sept 13, 2007 7:57:52 GMT -6
I too have used large locks, small washer (hanson style) , I have also used cam-locks; I personally believed cam locks have been the best. They tightened down nice and did not allow rubbing or sawing in the snare. But they are more expensive. I also find check the snares 2x just after dark @ 9:00 -10:00pm and around 5-6am. reduces snare time. Also Iowa(coon hangman) had a bigger issue, the deer lock kept snares open that allowed greater sawing. I tried making the lock a 1/2" bigger allowed more sawing but was not as tight on skin where it caused the damage. Even the best coon I seen come from the biggest and best snare guys in my area still had damage (myexperience from working in a buyers seeing @ 50,000 coon). I did not snare numbers perhaps like some, but did catch a fair #. Hope this helps? as far as late season coon I always had to quit in IA by Jan. 31
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Post by ohiyotee on Sept 13, 2007 9:31:53 GMT -6
You know i was a t a convention talking to an acquaintance, that is quiet the snare man in fact makes extra money on selling snares. Anyway guys where talking about fur damage and for the most part the snare guys said it really didn't matter that much. Well about a day later we where in a group talking about nafa and he was commenting that he had never ever received a top lot award and in fact wanted to buy the hat and pin that i had just picked up off of me.. well that might not mean anything but it makes you wonder.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 13, 2007 9:45:04 GMT -6
the inside mark on the leather doesn't matter much sellng green- but the missing fur sure stands out!
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Post by garman on Sept 13, 2007 9:55:35 GMT -6
Ohiyotee, I will never disagree with you that snares willnever hit top dollar, but for upper regions like MN & Northern Ia snares were a wonderful and viable tool that other tools may have not fit, and picks up much more fur that you may have not been able to p/up. The arguement may be stated that 220's would fit, I would agree somewhat but I have as well as T-man and others have stated on here about refusal from coon with 220's in trails, no clue why, but do, now could someone show me how to change that yes, but still will not fill all the bill a snare will in times, just like adding griz's, connibears, box traps all have a home in my arsenal. Even cages have cause fur damage for me as well as 220's etc. Of course not on such an regular basis as snares on COON. I can say I never remember damage from coyote/fox snares. Just my opinion
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 13, 2007 10:30:46 GMT -6
imo snares are now and always will be a poor choice for coon. for beaver in 1/8th the berrys. for canines good ,as EASY neck snare. me personally, I have never seen a neck snared coon, by me or anyone else either. closest I could ever come is head and one leg. most are chest or worse, hip snared. and almost 100%are damaged , about a $5 in todays market. on a midwast $12 coon thats a lot,on a $6 southern coon that`s a whole lot. on a northern $20 coon it`s the same 5 bucks. any cooning I do (intentional) is all 220 now. seen too many coons eating their guts out while still alive, alive and wastes down to 50 cent size, stuff that for me personally just doesn`t meet MY specs. bigger cable , big smooth round locks, kill poles or hanging will lessen damage and time he is in whatever predicament he gets in. but it still rubs me wrong to see it. so I don`t snare coons on purpose anymore. I`m not an anti. I don`t care what anyone does except me, for me. if there is a way to consistently neck snare coon, I never could grasp it. you can get the snare down to 4" loop I guess, or raise it way high and big and fast,but if you think 220 avoudance is an issue, then 4" or high loop avoidance should be a barrel of monkeys. fwiw, the last year I intentionally trapped coons I 220`d 350 in about 2 weeks, never wore hip boots, all dry and fluffy and dead and hardly a stick knocked over, no damage, misses so rare as to not be mentionable, and few freebie fox and mink. no dogs, maybe a half dozen housecats and a passle of skunks and possums. it works so good I`d just never do it any other way. no bait, no lure , no nothing but a pile of traps and wire and a few t bars where wiring not possible. road trapping sure is a plus with the 220 system, but I used to throw two 220`s on the atv every time I drove back to a field corner to set canine traps, back in the boom. that was my first atv, $3800. paid for the first 30 days with incidental coons in those one minute 220 sets. of course coon were worth about $35 avg then too, on carcase at that, vs $4-6 here today. but if I had a notion to do it again, I`d still do it he same way. I went thru a going nuts over snares period like a lot of guys do, trying to make snares the end all to everything. they aren`t , just specific tool only suited to specific situations and animals. and, IMO, coons aren`t one they fit well at all.
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Post by mustelameister on Sept 13, 2007 10:44:13 GMT -6
Bob--a bit off topic here, but you brought it up. 1/8" the berries for beaver you say. What about 3/32"? Too narrow? Please share. Thanks.
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Post by pat on Sept 13, 2007 11:33:50 GMT -6
For years I pushed relentlessly for unrestricted snaring here in Michigan. Finally got it- for fox and coyote only - about 7 years ago. It lasted one season, then the MDNR made some changes it thought would be more socially acceptable - required a stop for a minimum 2 1/2 inch loop closure. Then a couple of years ago they implemented a mandatory snare length and a 4 1/4 inch minimum snare loop closure. So much for snaring fox and coyote let alone raccoons. The trappers of Michigan will never see humane snaring of raccoon, fox, or coyote.
I've been with Bob W. while he ran his #220 coon line before. It was a picture of efficiency and simplicity. The system that Bob utilized was geared towards minimum time at a set and high profit margins. If Bob wants to elaborate on it further I'll defer to him.
Until I traveled down to Indiana for my initial on the line instructions with Bob I never new what real coon numbers were. Where I live in west Michigan I never was able to locate coon trails like they have in southern MI and all across Indiana. For me it was a real eye opener.
Pat
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 13, 2007 11:46:05 GMT -6
for sure a guy has to live in the right country to 220 coon. I been trying to talk pat into moving down here for about 20 years now. on the 1/8th and beaver, yes, less damage than small cable. beaver are bulls and will push thru huge cable. I bet I could snare them in 1/4" cable quite easily. but the 1/8th will get you the hind foot, tail and 2 toes on a front foot snare holds that everyone gets that has snared any beaver at all to speak of. I imagine 1/4" would lose most of them slipping thru. beaver and coon are similar in that a neck snare is dang near impossible, at least for me. and I`ve tried. the cool thing on beaver is the labor and weight savings as even if you can drive, still a lot of toting thru mud and dams and water etc. so much labor savings that it offsets the sl. dmg. grading.
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Post by coonhangman1 on Sept 13, 2007 12:14:36 GMT -6
It would be neat to perfect a neck snaring method that could get produce 90% or better, without missing a large amount of coon, if that even exists, lol.
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Post by ohiyotee on Sept 13, 2007 12:25:40 GMT -6
Garman , i will not ever argue the effectiveness of snares, they are a great tool . I just prefer that my coon are down and out when i arrive. I used them hard one year here and it made me an anxious person on the line and i didn't like some of the results, for me its down the wire or a rap with a 160.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 13, 2007 12:38:32 GMT -6
comparitivly footholds can be very very kind to a coon.
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Post by shagnasty on Sept 13, 2007 13:14:08 GMT -6
snared more than a handful of beaver with 3/32 cable and most do ok, but have nearly lost several to twisted up cable. was told 1/16 by 19 or whatever was the cats meow so using a little wisdom, only set a dozen or so up a stretch to see, lost an otter and a beaver first night, found the otter by shear luck, beaver gone so snares came up. making up quite a few 1/8" snares this year with heavy trap swivel and just enough cable to make the loop, will hopefully use enough to atleast form a solid opinion. have had several beaver on 1/8" drowner cable get back on bank for whatever reason and kink up, pair of pliers and a few bends and back in business, so have a real good idea what the test results on 1/8 snares are going to show me.
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Post by garman on Sept 13, 2007 13:21:18 GMT -6
Ohiyotee, I believe we are on the same wavelength, I was never disagreeing with you or Bob, I have used 220's in trails and legholds had luck with both just more luck with snares, more luck and with how I do them that I make more of a catch and more cost efficient Currently, back home when I used snares more, had a lot of trap theft, did not mind losing .50c snare, but I was not willing to lose a 7.00 connibear. I set almost majority footholds now, love my footholds and have good percentage catches, but until I get this 220 thing down I will continue to use snares late in the season here. (Because that is the only time we can use them here)
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Post by trappnman on Sept 13, 2007 13:57:16 GMT -6
Steve Craig tells me he snares 80% ofr more of his snares on the neck, and I believe him.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 13, 2007 15:04:59 GMT -6
I snare well into 80% neck snared beaver and coon. IMHO for coons you want a fast lock and that being a cam lock and 5/64th cable has worked well in the past, you will have some bumped for sure but the right loop and height 6" wide and 4-5" above the level ground on trails, I paint all locks and I think with coons the silver makes them want to investigate, dull snares and painted locks for sure. I want the coon to travel as natural as possible for best results. When in Iowa snares where my main stay for coons on a larger road line. Fast and effective for sure.
Beaver are not hard to neck snare with a 6-7" loop 1-2" off the level a tad higher on a steep bank, again the cam lock and 5/64ths cable. Swivels are key as beaver are rollers and I like to give them cable length to either wrap up quick or find water, in water they just don't chew or do near the damage to the cable as a land locked beaver will. I use snares as my main stay for beaver control and see no need to go to 1/8 or 3/32nd cable. This is on a 3 day check as well, and have very few twist out of the cable with letting them get to water,swivels or wrap up.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 13, 2007 16:36:55 GMT -6
38, you are damage control beaver. you don`t care if fur is ringed. a fur traper does. 1/8 damages less than smaller cable. that`swhy its used on beaver, not because of cable coming in two. plus, if you canneck snare hem all, no damage anyway, right, all dead then. you guys that can neck snare coon and beaver consistently, more power to you. I can`t do it. I can one leg and chest a coon or beaver prety regular, but as stated earlier, I don`t remember a single neck snared one in my life. and it`s a bunch of them snaredfor sure. you`d think one would accidently neck snare. I `ve snared them by about every other way.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 13, 2007 19:22:39 GMT -6
I've only snared aprt of 2 seaosns, but I've taken severla coon by the neck Stinger, toothed cam set up...
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