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Post by trappnman on Sept 16, 2007 8:36:12 GMT -6
Bob- you just don't seem to understand what people post- you act surprised.. wah... I thought it was $16 straight ,and now it`s 3 piles
Read the posts- then reread them- because I went back and read every post I made here- I have never mentioned I ever sold coon at a head count price, not once, and and from my first post on after you changed this from a coon snaring thread to how you would market my coon thread, was :
When you sell green fur, you do get a flat price- not for each coon, but for each grade.
so what does that mean? lets see- I'd guess it means that you don't get a flat price for every coon, aka straight through price (head count). amd "for each grade" must mean that there are multiple grades.
then I said in my next post:
when I can sell every coon green, from Oct to Mar for a $15-16 cash average, I'll take it.
Now what that means, is that I am averaging all the coon I sell, for that price. And what does "average" imply in this context? It means that I am taking multiple prices, and combining them together, dividing by the number of items and getting a mean (or average) price, for those items.
180 degrees from the concept of "straight through".
next I said: ]I put up coon for several years- and after being told time and again, that I could get a better average green, I listened.
see above on definition of average.
after several of your posts telling me one one hand I was dreaming with those ptrices, and on the other I was getting screwed, I said
you guys want to buy all my coon>? $16 st through
as an offer to you- not how I normally sell. See the difference?
back to the point:
I then said..
and I got close to $16 overall average, with early and late coon added in- green
AVERAGE once again.
so- hope I cleared up your misconcetion about straight through vs average and how I sell coon.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 16, 2007 8:39:16 GMT -6
yes Bob- it was timing- which is why I never put all my eggs in one basket.
and yes, I am indeed selling skinned coons.
for those that aren't familar with the terms-
in the round, carcass- selling whole animals
green, in the grease- selling skinned animals
finished, put up- fleshed, stretched and dried fur.
carcass coon would be quite a bit less, and he won't take coon in volume on carcass- a few here and there-
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 16, 2007 8:50:11 GMT -6
lol, I thought I won the coon argument this year. ok, lets go back to the $10 pile. is that all the snared coons? since you claim snared coons aren`t docked. uh huh. and since you said they were all big dryland boars, at $10 for mn coon? top $18 and bottom$10. that $10 pile can`t be very big then can it. now, wasit $15 , or was it $16? a buck difference you know.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 16, 2007 8:57:38 GMT -6
no, no, no Bob- once agian you aren't reading what I said.
Where I'd I ever say, coon weren't damaged becasue of snares? read my opening post.
Of course snared coons get docked- but what I did say- was that it was the fur that was getting me knocked down. not the snare line on the leather.
and becasue I was getting the damage, I wondered (hark back to the real purpose of this thread) if any lock, caused less damage. If I wasn't getting docked on the damage, why would I care?
But the few coon I got that were neck snared or froze (yes, I was snaring coon in 20 plus below nights) with no visible fur damage- I can make the fur line go away rather easily, paid the same.
the ones with visible fur damage, did not.
And yes, you bet those coon with the big bald patches got put into that $10 pile...and some in a new $6 pile.
but my overall, year start to year end average, has nothing ot do with that- year average is STILL a year average.
now- if I had 500 snared coon, mght be a different thing. But I'm not going to try to snare 500 coon, with the damge (fur) I'm getitng now.
more importantly, my question was DOES THE TIME OF THE YEAR MATTER IN FUR DAMAGE FROM SNARES Do later coon, with already deteriorating fur, get damaged more? Is the fur "weaker" than october coon?
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 16, 2007 8:59:48 GMT -6
steven- could I have averaged $21? now thats a far cry from $25- and yes, I probably could have averaged that- if I wanted to put up all my coon, and wanted to ship, and wanted to wait for my money-
I dont think I ever once said you would have done 25.
I said I did 25 and I threw in a disclaimer why.
You said its only worth 2 bucks to put up coon and I said uh uh.
Also I'm am not saying anybody will get the same prices next year.
I have a disclaimer there as well. I'd bet that you get more for your green coons than I will get for my finished. Unless the weather hits. this is the third time i said it.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 16, 2007 9:03:00 GMT -6
more importantly, my question was DOES THE TIME OF THE YEAR MATTER IN FUR DAMAGE FROM SNARES Do later coon, with already deteriorating fur, get damaged more? Is the fur "weaker" than october coon?
Probably to some degree.
But snares and hip snared coons are going to equal damage no matter what time of year.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 16, 2007 9:05:50 GMT -6
that $10 pile can`t be very big then can it.
now you are catching on. But grade isn't just size.
was it $15 , or was it $16? a buck difference you know.
It was 15 somethin..
its not worth it to me to dig out the slips- paypal me $40 (I need to pay for my truck, after all , its just not gas) and I'll charge the time out to you in checking....LOL
Depending on the sale, it varied- it was always over $15, and a couple of times a little over $16.... thus...between $15-16 dollars.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 16, 2007 9:12:49 GMT -6
steven- I stand corectted- I tohuhght oyu were saying I'd get a $25 avreage. But I can't see why you'd pick the $2 to put up a green coon to wonder about- - it is what it is here.
thats what I was wondering- could I get away from fur damage by snaring coon when it opens, rather than wait til January to sell coons.
Trust me steven- I've thoguht long and hard about shipping- which is why I've talked to a lot of guys that ship and why I went direct to FHA to talk to them about my prices and shipping.
All in all, selling local the way I do, seems to be the best for me year in and year out.
On coon this fall- I'll sell coon at least 6-7 times throughout the season. Sell early early, and then throughout the season. If the market declines, I'm way ahead of the game, if it increases, that increase will show up at each sale.
If the auctions go haywire- sometimes I lose (on coon last year) sometimes I'm a big winner (like mink and rats last year).
If my buyer goes before I do, and if I can't find similar buyers (Cumberlands would be my next choice- sold to Jeremys grandad years ago and always was treated fair)- I'll ship.
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Post by lumberjack on Sept 16, 2007 10:03:32 GMT -6
I like how a lot of guys here get 5 bucks for coon carcuss/meat and I almost went to jail over them one time.. If I had a carcuss buyer I would be a born-again coon trapper. Legally here in Pa it would cost me about .50 to get rid of coon carcuss-thank you Pa game commission.
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Post by garman on Sept 16, 2007 10:15:47 GMT -6
It was amazing to see the condition of fur brought in, coyotes darn near in half 9shot) then the seller complaining that it was a good coyote and he was getting sc#$%ed over on the price. But anyway, back to the thread- I did also see coon when I skinned would come apart in 2 pieces because the people belly snared them and my assumption would be did not check them for a few days. I say that with some assurity because I personally have snared several hundred (not a big #) and seen anything like that. So just like leghold trapping some persons that snare make a bad name for the rest.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 16, 2007 10:56:19 GMT -6
Bob I'd put your coons for two bucks. Just ship em here and I'll throw em on the NAFA truck for you. Who knows, maybe they'd think they were mn coons and you could make up the difference easy.
We have six dollar coon too bob. Not many.
Now the carcass thing is something to really think about. If I could catch enough coon wouldnt it be worth it to get a couple guys together and try haul out say 1000 1500 head.
Yeah Steve I dont really know. I snare so few coon and none on purpose.
but I'd say if they are going to be alive and body snared you are going to have problems, unless the animal hasnt been caught very long.
I'd switch to 220s if trying to snare them on purpose and if they are incidentals in coyote and fox snares I wouldnt worry about it.
Doesnt anybody want to bet that the coon market is coming down. I'm looking to average about 17 net.
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Post by lumberjack on Sept 16, 2007 12:20:13 GMT -6
It is my understanding you cant even take carcuss out of the state of Pa -they are illegal to sale anywhere. Funny thing here- my local furbuyer had a rendering company pay for carcuss for many years, then they picked them up for free. Now they charge to pick up. That fee is passed on to the trapper bringing them in.
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Post by bblwi on Sept 16, 2007 14:54:53 GMT -6
49er you asked for my size distribution on the coons I sold, well here are the last two sales that make the total 119 and $19.82
16 of those coons were sold in the September 06 sale and were the left over 2xl 1-11s from two other 06 sales and thus increases the % of 2xl coons.
Here are the 103 (All sold no carry over pelts) in the February 2007 sale. The average then was s$19.82 ( was wrong before the 16 hold over coons from September o6 dropped the average to $18.86 103 coons 1 5xl 6 4xl 38 3-4-xl 5 3xl 42 2xl 8 xl 3 l
I caught roughly 87 of these coons from October 24 to November 17 with about 65 of those the first 14 days. I was running a slightly larger percentage of 2xl last year and in 2005 as I was doing more gang setting in litter areas and not trapping as many of the upland travel lanes and thus caught fewer adult males in my opinion and fewer coon after Thanks Giving.
As you can see slightly over 50% of my coon were 2xl and smaller. This also means more 1-11 and 11 grades as the younger coon were caught earlier and my grades were rougher and more were north centrals instead of western heavies.
With our current green market in our area for our type of coon caught in this time frame I put up and ship as those 2xl coon here in the grease are $2-$10 depending on grade and at the auctions they go from $7-$14-16. With 50 % of my catch in that range that is the big increase for me.
Bryce
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 16, 2007 14:58:57 GMT -6
bryce, I believe it would pay you huge to belly skin and board. I know my indiana coons run smaller than wisc coons and I get 90% 3-4x size, on the western stuff near 100% 4-5x. show me an 8 lb coon and I can get 32" out of him andf they grade him that way too. to be less than 8 lb they about have to still be nursing.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 16, 2007 16:14:58 GMT -6
Thanks Bryce.
Thats a pretty good average for how early and the smaler sizes.
Bob are you stretching them on a eight inch board or a 7 inch board.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 16, 2007 16:19:43 GMT -6
6 and 1/2 "on the fly weights. no down grading yet. I go 10" board on my 4-5x westerns and still have coon going 42-44" to the base of tail, regular little bears they are so big. must be what the northern mn and dakota coon look like. those biggys I just drape them. the fly weights get the pliar stretch and tack. it`s an art doing coon for $ and not just to sell.
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Post by furman on Sept 16, 2007 17:00:52 GMT -6
I don’t mean to argue with you no what you get paid on skinned coon T-man I believe you on you getting 16 average on your coon but if that average is true for everyone that has good clean coon I thing guys in our area would be hearing about that and would be traveling to that buyer (Webkie in Lacrosse?) If he’s pay that I will be willing to take a ride and sell my coon off quick this year. Not to see if your talk is right just that I want to sell my coon fast this year.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 16, 2007 17:21:44 GMT -6
Furman dont forget that steve is trapping mainly ridge coon early and he doesnt start trapping water until later.
I'd say 90 percent of his coon would grade heavy or select.
What section are your indiana coons going bob.
I've tried the 7 inch board and dont get the 3x but they are putting them in the better sections. Coat coons I think you can get away with it.
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Post by robertw on Sept 16, 2007 17:33:52 GMT -6
How many guys do see gearing up for a big coon harvest? Not many around here. None of the local buyers are bragging up prices yet......"IF" the harvest is off...and it may well be for a variety of reasons..Things could easily develop towards the end of season.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 16, 2007 17:42:34 GMT -6
the only coons I`ll keep are the incidentals in my western coyote/cat traps. that runs anywhere from 40-160 pending the year and weather. those grade mostly western. what few indiana coons I get grade all over the board, but never had a coat coon grade. I get a cat grades southern once every other year or so, out of the western stuffI mean. and one or two northern, the rest 1/2 north central and 1/2 western. I guess they scrapped the southern grade and now call it central.
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