|
Post by coyotewhisperer on Sept 14, 2007 19:13:46 GMT -6
If I'm averaging 21 - $22 at Nafa in Western KS I'd sure hope you were a few dollars higher in MN so I'm with steven 49er I thought you'd make 6$ more per coon easy.
I might not finish coon for a dollar but 6$ extra i wouldn't pass that up.
In KS I'd say the only way for a serious guy to sell is the auction houses in Canada.
Did you just not like the surelock snares? I have a hell of a time getting a cam off them and end up with about the same result wether cam or surelock so half the price seems better to me.
I've neck snared quite a few but don't know how a guy could get a real high percentage of those. Course I didn't believe RK about the tieing off high till i did it a bunch. I like snaring coons and more often than not prefer that over a 220 in a trail. Lot less refusals for me. There isn't much cooler than a neck snared coon hanging 4ft in the air off a tree LOL
Jeff
|
|
|
Post by SteveCraig on Sept 14, 2007 20:30:45 GMT -6
If given a choice, I prefer to 220 my coon, especially if boarding and shipping them. The 160 can work just about as well, but the 220 is better.
Snare marks are something that a snareman just has to deal with. We can thank all these good states that force us to use so-called relaxing locks, and so-called deer stops. These two things cause 90% of the marking problems.
We can reduce these with the right equipment and snaring techniques however.
If you are forced to use a relaxing lock, then use the reverse bend lock. Use 1/8 7x19 cable and load your cable. Ahhh you say......you cant load 7x19!!!!!! I say hoooooooyyyyy! Been doing it for many, many years. I can get 1/8 7x19 loaded ,to operate just as fast as my 1/16 cat snares. Keith Gregerson taught me how.
The reverse bend lock will lay flat against the coons hide instead of digging in like other washer/relaxing locks. Larger diameter cable works quite well with the reverse bend lock. Both of these equals less snare damage.
Next....you either neck snare them or you need to hang them if you are running larger loops. It is your call here. Many believe that it is just impossible to neck snare consistantly. Probably for them it is.
If you can not figure out neck snaring, then you must use a good locking lock, a kill spring, 5/64 cable and hang them with a high tie. Equals less snare damage.
Get that snare off the coon ASAP. Especially if he was alive when you get there. Most of the time with kill springs, they are very dead, but you still need to get that snare off ASAP.
For a relaxing set up........ Give me a 8 to 10 foot 7x19 1/8 or even 3/32 with the Reverse bend lock and hang him with a high tie. If I do not have to use a relaxing lock, I prefer 8 to 10 foot 7x7 5/64 Slim,Micro, or Cam lock with a kill spring and I still want the high tie. If i cant tie him high, then neck snare him on a really short snare with a kill pole.
Do snare marks reduce the value of your coon? Depends on your buyer. Most of the time it does. You just have to go out and snare more coon to make up for the loss.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 14, 2007 20:57:37 GMT -6
yes Bob, I know nothing about fur or selling fur. Im done arguing this steven- how many of those coon did you sell? when taken?
Bob- how many you sell -25? 50? When taken?
Jeff- how many?
you guys want to buy all my coon>? $16 st through- no holes in fur- make all the money yourselfs. not one of you are in this area, and have any idea of the competiveness of the green market here. aand to those that they are talking 4-500+ coon over a a 5 month season for more than $18-19 average with all coon sold-- send me your slips because I haven't seen it yet.
Bob doesn't trap coon, steven doesn't have coon- gee, think I might know a little about selling coon? And what I have?
------------------------------------
steve- thanks for the tips
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Sept 14, 2007 21:00:52 GMT -6
I just looked at my totals for last year on 119 WI coons that were caught from October 24th until November 16th 94 coons and from November 28-Dec 17 25 coons. They averaged $19.87 gross so at 9% I got about $18.20 each net of commissions. The going rate for my size, grade and time of year coon here was about $9.50-$11 in the grease from November thru January, with higher averages on the smaller late harvest lots. My total lot of coons may have averaged say $12 in the grease
To me that means about $6-$7 per average coon with most caught before November 10th. I can only do about 4 coon per hour, that is flesh, degrease, trim, board, pin and hang. It takes me then about 30 hours to do 120 coons. 120 times $6.50 is $780 or $26 per hour putting up coons. I now need to factor in space to dry, stretches, fleshers, pins, degreasing materials,additional travel for shipping and other fees. With a $12 per hour labor charge and investment costs I am estimating about $4.50 in each coon. That means a net of $2 per average coon for me. If I were a better trapper, or ran longer lines and was catching more coons then there would be more advantage to spending less time in the fur shed and more on the line running more coon sets, better. I can also do the put up when I can not be on the line or later in the season. Then my fur shed time conflicts with consulting time and that rate is better than $26 per hour, but I choose to work just harder and not less. I also enjoy putting up fur so there are some intangibles that need to be factored into the equation also.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 14, 2007 21:09:24 GMT -6
bryce- I can't believe your green market is so poor-
you state, with good coon, very comparable coon to mine:
They averaged $19.87 gross so at 9% I got about $18.20 each net of commissions
and I got close to $16 overall average, with early and late coon added in- green
thanks for proving my point.
as I said, I've talked with FHA, and they say I wouldn't do much better shipping- and bryces statement shows why.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 14, 2007 21:13:17 GMT -6
The going rate for my size, grade and time of year coon here was about $9.50-$11 in the grease from November thru January
Groeny easily beat those prices around here- and I think beav sold quite a few atr aobut that average green- where he got robbed, was on the ones he put up and sent to groeny
primetime- you sell to groeny- what did you average? If I remember right- about like I did?
|
|
|
Post by bblwi on Sept 14, 2007 21:21:10 GMT -6
Here are my reasons for why our green fur market is lower and also why our average is lower than yours. Remember these are my thoughts and not the thoughts from buyers or other trappers. 1. We have one local buyer and the only other green buyer within 75 miles is the route truck that Groenwalds run. Averages are pretty similar from the other sources also. 2. We have a ton of early season coon activity here due to the fact that so much of our corn goes early and the hunters and trappers go early and thus a lot of your early fur is blue, which is not bad but also smaller. 3. Our coon are about your size but we do not have as high a percentage of the silver sided, black top straight haired westerns that you do. I feel you have a slightly better color and grade of coon than we do. We have more brown tone in many of ours. 4. You run a much more selective line and leave it out longer than most of us do. You catch a higher percentage of adult coons that way and less litter coon. Your trapping methods for coon are more similar to setting dispersal routes for canines than for catching family groups of coons working specific smaller areas. Over time you will catch more adult coons and more of your coon will be caught at a later date in the season average. 5. You also may have a buyer that has a good market for your size, grade and color of coon and the buyers want them put up a certain way and they will pay for the better fur and not for the work. Those are just some of my thoughts as to why I feel your green average is about $3-$5 above our green average.
Bryce
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 15, 2007 6:09:35 GMT -6
bryce- aren't you in the general area of richard clark, the beav?
|
|
|
Post by furman on Sept 15, 2007 6:32:49 GMT -6
T-man
Does everyone get the price that you get on your coon or are you just a juice man to get everyone else going on prices
I am sure that I have sold to the buyer that you have sold to and I never come close to the price that you talk about.
I think we have the same coon just that buyer likes you more than others.
Jeff Freeman
|
|
|
Post by furman on Sept 15, 2007 6:34:50 GMT -6
Good post!! Steve Craig
Thank you for your insight
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 15, 2007 6:40:30 GMT -6
actually furman, others often get better prices, because they only trap "good coon". I'm getting no special treatment.
assuming that they make an effort to present their coon well- wash, dry, etc.
I suggest you try Webkie (sp) in LaCrosse area- his prices are very similar to what I am getting.
but muddy, bloody, holes, burr filled coon do get less.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 15, 2007 6:49:44 GMT -6
another interesting thing- the auction slips I see, never have any small coon on them. Always 3X and up.
now- some say they catch no little coon, others say the toss them , others say they sell the "small and bad stuff local".
I sell every coon I get- including those runts.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Sept 15, 2007 7:52:31 GMT -6
for whatever reasons no one but you gets the prices you get tman. that can be seen by the postings. why delete that kind of thing? it`s no discussion if only one side, same as the political threads.
|
|
|
Post by furman on Sept 15, 2007 8:15:03 GMT -6
I have tried Webkie many times and they would fall about a $1.50 short on the coon.
I was buying fur at the time when I tried to deal with them I would take lots of coon and other to them and they would come up short. I would say all you have to come up was a $1.50 and you would get all my fur. But they said they couldn’t come up any more.
I did sell all my deer hides to them or a few years and I was happy until I got a line on another hide buyer and I give him a call. He offered me $2.50 more per hide. I had about 800 hides on hand at that time. That’s a $2000 difference in what I was getting plus I was delivering to Webkie and the other buyer would come and pick them up from me. I don’t say I got screwed I just sold to the other guy.
I dealt with the old man Webkie and they always treated me fine but the prices that they offer weren’t as much as others offered. They have to make money to if they don’t there out of business.
Old man Webkie gave me good advice as a buyers he said that the buyer that are liked are no longer here and the ones that aren’t like are still here. Meaning that you have to think about yourself first on how much up pay if you pay everyone else top dollar then you’ll end up broke and out of business.
Would it be smart to pay you a top trapper in the area a low price on your furs? I think they give you a good price because you give demos sell supplies and other. If some one come up to you and asks where do you sell your furs you’ll tell them Webkie. Why-because you get great prices from them.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 15, 2007 8:47:02 GMT -6
bob- I'll say this honestly- you are fill of it on this subject.
anyone in this area- is getting the same.
I don't care what anyone is getting in Iowa- read beavs posts from last fall- HE will tell you the same thing.
never sold to Webkie in my life. Wouldn't know the man. Heard hes comparable, if not, my good fortune.
and my buyer pays the same to all- and like I said, I had many guys sell to him get HIGHER- because all "prime" coon.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 15, 2007 8:53:16 GMT -6
Bob- you are really out there
for whatever reasons no one but you gets the prices you get tman. that can be seen by the postings. why delete that kind of thing?
what did I delete except your slam at me? and your little slam contained nothing about prices. Why lie about what was deleted?
posters? what posters? guys from 1000 miles away and 1 Iowa guy that sells his coon in Iowa somewhere?
I know what primetime got from groeny over same period last year- think he was even a little higher than what I got.
market oyur coon however your want. I've see coon from Appleton area, Oregon area, SW area of WI- and they are pretty much identical coon. bryces statment is pretty much like those that ship get here- in that $18-19 net range. If thats worth it too you- sending to auction, waiting for money, etc for a lousy $2 a coon- great. Its not for me. And lets not forget those years when the green market far surpasses auction averages-
|
|
|
Post by thorsmightyhammer on Sept 15, 2007 8:54:21 GMT -6
Steve let me reiterate by saying I dont think you do wrong by selling green.
I maybe would to. But like i told you I'm stubborn when it comes to selling green.
I stated in my post that my average wasnt a fair comparison because of the time of year I trapped them. How many Like 42 44 i'd have to look. And it was every last one I caught. I dont throw away runts either.
Cant compare your coon to the Beav's I dont think, I know a guy that traps there and they are smaller on average.
In your area you are going to see a large percentage of 3x nuts its only a 15 16 pound coon. But the real price difference is between a 2x and a xl. About 6 bucks between 3 and 2, and 12 between 2 and xl.
A 2 xl coon if skinned properly isnt very big. Maybe 8 9 pounds minnimum.
If the guys whose slips you see are running all 3x coons they should have done 25 net. If not then something was done wrong.
steven doesn't have coon- gee
Dont be so sure. I've seen more dead coons on the road here than in a long time. One good side effect of ethanol. I'm thinking I will make a run at a 100 and 2 woudl be doable if I actually lived here in the fall. Would that be enough for a fair average?
Bryce if you dont mind my asking what was your size range?
Many believe that it is just impossible to neck snare consistantly. Probably for them it is.
A very good observation about snaring. Its an art. Some have a knack and some like me stumble along.
|
|
|
Post by garman on Sept 15, 2007 9:06:40 GMT -6
I do not blame for selling green, I have just never been able to consistently sell coon at t-mans average. Some years yes, some years no. But overall if I put up my own coon I have more saleablility and more power when selling. Along with the ablility to stretch coon to the bigger size (1XL to 3XL, etc.) But some years I still have to sell green just cause I do not have room or time to put up, having my skinning machine again will help though. But I never pick and choose coon I will sell it is just what I have caught. But the years I sold to auction I did 6-8 dollars better per coon.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Sept 15, 2007 9:10:45 GMT -6
steven- of course you got coon- but not "coon"... if you know what I mean. Just like we don't have the beaver you do. But yes, let me know about the average sale on your October coon mixed in with your Dec coon.
I've read a lot of posts by the beav, and talked with him extensively in person- from what I gather, our coon are very comparable.
my offer is good to anyone to buy my coon at $18 st through- plenty of money to be made.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Sept 15, 2007 10:06:12 GMT -6
no one will pay you $18 green, especially with a perponderance of early coon and snared coon ,and no throw outs. you can`t see that? or $16 eithe. you can`t that? but plenty could pay you low 20s finished ,if they are done right ,on wire, maybe mid 20`s on boards. either beats $16 the buyer pays to use you as his advertizing.
|
|