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Post by coyotewhisperer on Mar 22, 2007 19:17:55 GMT -6
No ones saying yet but I'll let you know when I find out. Would have to be Pogues as I never had time in the infantry to run traps LOL.
Jeff
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 22, 2007 19:37:41 GMT -6
turtle, I think that is it, exactly. thanks to higher bobcat prices last year.
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Post by k9 on Mar 22, 2007 20:40:49 GMT -6
So who did I offend? You or OGorman?  I understand the frustration, I guess ignorance is bliss. I enjoy my trapping experiences. Sounds like if you go full time it quits being fun, and bitterness sets in. The way I have seen it, there are trappers and then there are people who have traps. The trappers are out every year no matter what. the others had thier traps hanging in the garage for years, and in years like last year, they get them out and are a pain in the ass. After some jacking around and not catching anything they start stealing from those of us who do. They are not trappers. They do nothing for trapping. They are the jerks who during the fur boom got us deer stops and other restrictions here in Iowa. They are the jerks who rip people off. Since they are vacant of any original thought they are also the jerks who would ride with you then set on top of you the next year. |
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Post by k9 on Mar 22, 2007 20:50:40 GMT -6
Marky Mark I don't get your post. So don't know how to respond to it.
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Post by Corey on Mar 23, 2007 4:11:18 GMT -6
Hadn't read page 5 now I feel pretty cool that Bob let me ride on his line . You won't see me setting on your line! If you take a guy trapping and he comes back year after or whatever setting on same property that is downright dirty! Yep Jeff, that sucks doesn't it. I've had this happen in about every facet of the outdoor sports, fishing, hunting, trapping.....it sure sucks when your nice enough to try and help someone out, and they turn around and piss down your back.....it sure makes a guy stop and think about who his friends really are. I decided after the last couple years, not to help anyone with anything regarding trapping, i've been bit in the arse by that snake one too many times. |
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Post by Hern on Mar 23, 2007 4:30:53 GMT -6
10-4 Bob.
Take a cold showder and cool down. Keep the blood pressure down, it's bad for the heart.
Bob W. I would like to ask another question without you going off like a rocket....
Bob, who were some of your ideals in trapping and outdoors in the early days and as you were progressing as a trapper? (and even today)
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 5:45:17 GMT -6
probably the same as most in my age bracket, pete rickard, e.j. dailey,. hawbaker, sheldon colvin, o.l. butcher. of course later on some of the more recent names of the fur boom. those of my youth I never did get to meet as most were too old or too far away by the time I had wheels and enough money to go anywhere. locally here in indiana there were 2 that have since passed that I did meet and were real trappers in volume and lifestyle both, and took a young (lol-then) buck under wing, dick vankosky from pinola indiana and vic kadish ( trap trader vic) from near laporte. both are ista hall of fame recipients and truely deserving. now awards aren`t for the same reasons they were given in those days. the ones that got famous during the boom , and I won`t say their names, I later learned were mainly sheisters peddling lure and instructions and couldn`t trap their way out of a paper bag. I`ll say one since he is dead , I hear from a cocaine overdose, the traveling motel instruction circuit man dan bishop from wisconsin. many have left the scene now but a few are still sheistering around . most were good enough at it they could have made a fortune selling used cars or insurance or becoming penny anti politicians. I`ve no idea why they messed with trapping. the finding out that one by one my idols fell as I met them and saw they were b.s`ers, or so physically unfit as to be a joke trying to trap (350 lb. pro trapper? ya, uh huh) was a great dissapointment. I think the things that have ruined it for me the most are finding out there are a lot of conmen in this trapping, the nta fiascos , and of course that one can be the hardest working man in rock and roll and it is near impossible to make a decent buck trapping anymore. on fur, I can`t. everyone thinks making xxxx a week GROSS on fur just means do it 52 weeks a year instead of 2weeks a year. won`t cut it boys. there are more of us willing to supply a product that there is not enough demand to absorb it all at fair returns. just that simple. so when real $ is impossible to come by thru legitimate ways, some turn to selling magic ina bottle or just plain thiving in other cases. no matter if it`s a gun to the head , a 150 grand 9 minute video, or living off the backs of others, it`sall the same mentality that has turned many away from our passion. like rotton fish, it smells more and more as you learn the ropes of who and why things really are. you asked last who was my idols today. guys like rich kaspar, robert waddell and similar types. common as a mud fence, hard workers, honest, no b.s tell it straght up kind of guys that catch tremendous amounts of fur , so much they can`t even say as no one would believe them.( lol, that part time coon trapper ) . but more than catch numbers, it is the type person they are. my friend steve craig probably hasn`t caughta lot of fur for many many years now, but I still look up to him as a trapping idol as he is on the correcrt path in life. often I stray off path and he has brought back on a time or three. I doubt the guys I look up to will win any awards, but then they don`t need to, they` re successes by every mode of measurement already, the measurements that count. and they are regular humans that fight demons every day like we all do. kids going south on you, money woes, other things we mostly don`t talk about. I guess I have no trapping idols today, as beinga trapper doesn`t deserve to make anyone an idol. but men of honor that just happen to ber trappers too, that doesl. with age I`ve finally learned what is important in life and what not, and trapping hardly even merits listing at the bottom anymore, for me. there are no more e.j. daileys etc I don`t think. I`m kind of thinking I didn`t say what I wanted and this is coming out wrong, but maybe you get my drift.
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Post by markymark on Mar 23, 2007 5:57:36 GMT -6
Marky Mark I don't get your post. So don't know how to respond to it.
K9 it sounds more like your PO'D that paople are trapping your turf that you have had all to yourself for sometime now. Sure there are scumbo's out there but you have a right of way out there. Wether you like it or not they have just as much right to be there as the next guy.
BW Bishop died a broke man, divorved and from a herion OD. I think he was like a Tony Robbins sold motivational tapes but wasn't motivated himself.
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Post by k9 on Mar 23, 2007 6:47:10 GMT -6
You are reading that one wrong Marky. It's been funny to me to hear some of these guys complain who have never lived through a fur boom. I like many of you have been there, done that. This is NOTHING compared to the fur boom.
I just hate a thief. This is an area of tough competition even in a year of $6 coon. We have a group of guys here who live for it, and just flat out go hard. I like them all, they are honest through and through.
These other guys, who only come out once every ten years or so are nothing. They are not competition, the first little bit of weather sends them scattering, I have zero regard for them other than one thing. We trappers have few problems with theft until these types come out. They know just enough about fur to find our stuff, and have just enough interest in fur to steal it.
Those are not trappers.
As far as the other issues are concerned I am apparently ignorant, and am blissful. I see some guys out there who have videos, sell lures, promote trapping, who are just flat out stand up guys, and I like them. I have seen some shysters too, but all in all most trappers are pretty good folk.
A cop can easily get sucked into a mindset thinking that he is better than everyone else. Starts thinking that everyone is a criminal except him and his wife, and he is not so sure about his wife. This comes from working in a constant environment of seeking out criminals. A cop has to be mindful of the fact that only a small number of the population are true criminals, and the majority of people are decent folks. I know some cops who are complete assholes and I can't stand them.
I think a guy who goes big into trapping full time has to fight getting sucked into the mindset that he is better than everyone else. I suppose that mindset is key to sucess in many ways when you are pushing yourself to succeed on a trapline that is paying your bills. That trapper is in a constant environment of making ends meet in a volatile atmosphere of up and down fur markets, weather conditions, etc. This has to form a different mindset from what I am used to. Trapping is not survival to me, and I think it would take the fun out of trapping if it was.
I think the full time trapper, with that survival mindset, would start to see other trappers differently. His opinion starts to change about what a "real trapper" is. I guess the rest of us are just fake trappers. I am just as guilty, as I don't see the guys who come out once every ten years as being trappers. They do nothing for trapping, they just own some traps and come out whenever coons go up a little and the weather is good.
I think we should start a screening process for trapping websites. We can put a "real" trapper in charge of each website, and he or she can screen out the "real" trappers from the "fake" trappers and have a forum for each, so that the superior, cape wearing real trappers are not offended by the presence of the fake ones.
The "real" trapper forum would be a pretty quiet and lonely place.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 7:00:56 GMT -6
equating fulltime trappers to bad cops and this "I`m better than you " whatever it is you are pushing is a mystery to me. I`ve NEVER heard anyone on this thread or anywhere else claim to be better than others, `cept you declaring the 10 year guys as not real trappers. and me claiming MOST fur boom biggies , and the ### are all money grubbing sheisters. I AM better than them. no idea on their trapping ability however, wel;l pretty good idea, not woth a plug nickol. the truth of the matter is the 10 year guys are representatrive of the average trapper. not to be trusted any further than you can throw them, same as the bulk of the human race. keep your friends close and your enermys( or a mean horse) even closer. better to get pushed away than kicked in the head!
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Post by k9 on Mar 23, 2007 7:19:46 GMT -6
Probably a bad comparison about cops, but I was trying to talk about how a person's mindset changes, and how he views himself effects how he views others.
A full time trapper thinking or knowing he is better than the rest, may actually be a neccessary mindset to make it as a full time trapper. I am not saying it is not a positive thing in many ways. However, I refuse to paint all trappers with such a broad brush. The shysters are not the norm, they are the exception, and they often do not last long.
Most of those from the fur boom have moved on to other things long ago. They sold lots of snake oil and magic bullets during the fur boom, mostly to the guys who have traps hanging in thier basements and only get them out once every ten years. Those guys deserve each other.
You thinking or knowing you are better than others Bob is probably your confidence/survival instinct from years of full time trapping. Something I can't relate to 100% because I have not done it.
Me thinking I am better than the once every ten years guys, well that probably is painting with a broad brush too. I know not all of them are stealing from me, but my problems sure increase when they come out of the wood work. So rather than single them out I use the shotgun approach and dam them all.
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Post by thebeav2 on Mar 23, 2007 7:39:33 GMT -6
Bob you brought up some old memories (not good ones)
Dan Bishop taught his first class in my fur shed. He was NO trapper but a brilliant teacher In fact that's what he did for a living. but he was very good at what he did and could sell snow to Eskimos and get repeat orders. LOL He was so crooked he couldn't lay down next to a snake.
His total class outline was taken word for word out of books written by Carmen and others of that time. He even took pictures of set locations out of those books and re produced them for his study guide. He was a brilliant con man. But his buddy Brent was the real brains behind the act.
I will say this he was the first of his kind to take that act on the road and I believe anyone taking the class could have caught fox with what he was selling.
Then It was the team of Milligan and Marsyada and I believe Jeff "coon" Ritcher took their show on the road but I believe that was very short lived. I'm not saying these men were con men but good old Dan was. And I heard that the nose candy got him In the end.
But what really pissed me off Is that one time I was working out of town and I heard He was giving a class close by. So I decided I would sit In and I didn't think he would know me. Well he's about 5 min Into the class and he stops and asks me to stand up and then introduces me as one of his past students. Now I had a pretty good rep as a good trapper and he made It sound like he was that reason. I just about wanted to puke. He was slick.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 8:34:42 GMT -6
k9, cut it out!!! I never said I was or thought I was better than anyone( lol, except this bishop guy and his ilk, and the ### crowd). you keep repeating that like if you say it enough it is true. sheesh, run for office in that "outfit" , that`s their modus! beav, not only slick but he had soft hands and clean fingernails on dec 1st and smelled of cheap cologne and gold chains. went and washed my hands after I shook with him once. same way on a modern day "bishop" I know from pa. makes my skin crawl when he is close. you`ll know him a mile away if you see him. probably smell the cologne too and see the gold chains and womanizing stories. there are still plenty around k9. this iowa must be some protected place where it doesn`t attract the low end of the spectrum and you are living an enchanted life.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 23, 2007 10:17:49 GMT -6
thanks for keeping this in bounds. Some very good points from both views.
As far as fulltime trappers being better than anyone else, I don't think that.
They do have some advantages. Time being the #1 thing.
Experience being #2. By experience, I mean time in the field. No big secrets, but when your bills are being paid by trapping, you do figure out a few tricks.
So do serious partimers- don't get me wrong.
But serious partimers, aren't the average either.
I think what we are talking about here- are the "trappers" that aren't ethical, that aren't honest.
And those trappers, while maybe low in numbers- are high in our concerns.
the guys that set illegally, the guys that tend others traps, the guys that used to be called Johnny Sneakums or stone panners-
I'll accept an occasional yote shot by deer hunters or a trap stolen by a hiker- those here are minimal...
its being ripped off by other "trappers" that pisses me off.
doesn't happen often to me, but when it does- its never 1 or 2 traps....
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Post by shagnasty on Mar 23, 2007 11:34:07 GMT -6
ethics is a personal decision and interpretation. people have different emotions and ethics. It does not bother me to trap the same area as someone else or cut them off if possible. To me that is competition with the smartest most efficient man coming out on top. Also, I think the 100% legal 100% of the time is a little over the top. weather conditions and local unpublished laws unkown to most can cause problems. not everything is picture perfect everywhere or published in a hand me out booklet.
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Post by k9 on Mar 23, 2007 11:36:39 GMT -6
I may have misundertood you Bob. Duly noted.
"And those trappers, while maybe low in numbers- are high in our concerns."
Very well put Steve
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Post by markymark on Mar 23, 2007 16:41:37 GMT -6
A cop can easily get sucked into a mindset thinking that he is better than everyone else. Starts thinking that everyone is a criminal except him and his wife, and he is not so sure about his wife. This comes from working in a constant environment of seeking out criminals. A cop has to be mindful of the fact that only a small number of the population are true criminals, and the majority of people are decent folks.From the way it sounds your already there. I know some cops who are complete assholes and I can't stand them. Yeah Me to.  But from posts I have read in the past you have no respect for humans, none what so ever. You have made claims to busting scum bags, mostly dopers. Crankers I believe was the word you used. I just don't think they want to be bottom feeders it just happens to some in life. Does that mean if someone lives in a trailer there White trash??? If you can't respect a human for what they are I am sure you can't respect any trapper. Probably a bad comparison about cops, but I was trying to talk about how a person's mindset changes, and how he views himself effects how he views others. Nope you posted how you feel and that is a good thing, it just goes to show all of the members here you feel mightier than us all. If that's your game then stick with it and you should get your own little website. So rather than single them out I use the shotgun approach and dam them all. So I guess those folks that are not in your little click shouldn't have the same right to trap as you do. Countless times here you've felt your the only guy who should trap.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 18:20:56 GMT -6
holy cow. I didn`t think he was saying( meaning) that at all.
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Post by markymark on Mar 23, 2007 18:40:26 GMT -6
holy cow. I didn`t think he was saying( meaning) that at all.
I thaught you've been around the block. Maybe you should read the book interagation for DUMMIES it outlines how to say one thing and mean another. Plus you can win friends easy. His post is like a shyster realtor, wonderful view means no windows, water front ..... floods all the time. great shape.....just shy of a wrecking ball.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 19:28:37 GMT -6
like nafa`s " increased clearance at new levels"? lol, means the price went down! really ,maybe I`m still more naive than I thought as I didn`t think he meant that stuff like you interpreted it. heck, wouldn`t be the first time I been hooked. for sure.
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