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Post by lb on Feb 28, 2006 17:40:12 GMT -6
Wiley does that. And calls upwind.
I always cold call in previously scouted prime areas, and call downwind. Different strokes....in different areas. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 28, 2006 16:29:41 GMT -6
1) on say a 12 minute stand- how many times do you use a call?
reply: this depends on what you are using. Hand calls, you can go with the realism, modulate, quiver your sound, trail off, get desperate, etc. Actually, it doesn't matter a whole lot....unless you have a hang up. With electronic, continuous is the way to go, a monotonous wah wah wah will bring them in just as good as all the realism. Now, what I do is both, start with a lost pup howl, start my first sequence with a hand call, pause for a short time and start the machine. After that I frequently call over the machine, as it's running. I will never agree with "pauses" for pauses sake. The only good reason to pause is that it is impossible to call continuously with a hand call. You have to take a breath sometimes, and you don't want to have to shoot when you are out of breath. Hand calling continuously, all day is a tough job.
2) can you make a BAD distress call? I know that howlers, if not done right, cause more damage than good. But wouldn't any distress call appear natural?
reply: You are correct, howling (generally), you only need maybe three sounds? The rest, you should have a clear understanding of where and when, or they can hurt you. With hand calls, I really don't think it is possible to make a bad sound? Rank amateurs can call coyotes with a hand call.
3) Do you use the same patterns, calls every time you use that stand or area? in other words, do coyotes learn to avoid distress calls?
Reply: I never call on one place often enough, so they never get wise. But, as soon as you see shy coyotes, somebody is hitting them pretty hard, and you are better off hunting somewhere else, or switching to night hunting, or calling at first light, or switching to believable, but unusual sounds. In southwest conditions, BLM and hunted, I have a fair amount of luck with baby javalina distress, kid goat, pup gray fox; that sort of thing. But, no, I don't change what I do, for the sake of variety, unless it isn't working. Now, the most I would call the same exact spot, water tank, road intersection, corral, etc. is once per month; but there is nothing wrong with day calling that spot in the morning, for instance, and doing another stand, sometime the following night. I hunt around the clock, just pause long enough to switch gear and clothing, because night hunting is nothing like day hunting.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 28, 2006 11:24:13 GMT -6
1) how worried are you about vehicle noise? Do you park and walk over the hill? Within sight
reply: I don't worry at all about vehicle noise, coyotes hear vehicles all the time, usually hold their ground. I have seen some highly pressured areas where they ran from vehicles, but if you have a choice, call someplace else. Some people are very concerned about hiding a vehicle, but again, that has a lot to do with how pressured the coyotes are? I have (many many times) called coyotes from my truck, in broad daylight. Not many people have access to this prime hunting, but all I'm saying is that a coyote doesn't necessarily recoil in horror from a parked vehicle. If they seem to, in your area, that is the time to look at a solution. On the other hand, I have walked hundreds of yards from my truck and called coyotes that came to the call, crossed the two track in front of my truck, and never even looked at it. Short answer: depends.
2) if you used a howler- would you use it every stand?
3) if so, when?
reply: Okay, a howl seldom hurts, but it can change the response. Begin your stand with silence for a couple minutes and then use a non threatening howl. After a short time, begin your distress sounds; probably at reduced volume? A coyote that hears a howl may not barrel into your stand, they approach cautiously, looking for the strange coyote, but they already know where the distress sounds are coming from. If you don't howl, you see eagar coyotes within four minutes and I start to lose interest in seven minutes. With howling, you should probably stay on stand for at least 12-15 minutes. A coyote can walk a mile in a lot less time. A howl every five minutes is what I usually do. Short answer: a howl is almost never a negative.
4) to you prefer being up high..or low when calling?
reply: My first choice, with a rifle, is a location with a view. You want to get down in those coolees, casual hunting, use your 10 gauge. On a contest, I would have a rifle for scanning the hillsides, and a shotgun in my hands.
5) most important, what are the sequence times? Most seem to agree on 15-20 minutes per normal stand. What pattern of calling, waiting do you do?
reply: I already covered part of this question, I think it's a numbers game; more stands means more responders. More responders means more shot opportunities and more opportunities usually means more dead coyotes. However, every stand is different. If you have that gut feeling, let the stand play out for twenty minutes, although I automatically make slightly longer stands in the middle of the day. First three or four hours of the morning, twelve minute stands, max. After that, you can go to 15-20 minutes, hoping to snag a few latecomers that happen to be moving. For me, day in day out, I probably see 75% of the animals within the first four minutes and another 15-20% in less than eight minutes. So, doing the math, I guess that hanging around an extra five minutes will get you an occasional coyote, so it's up to you whether it is worth the time invested. The caveat is that on some days, they aren't coming to you on a string, they are cautious and that requires an awareness. If you know your area, and know coyotes are present but they aren't showing, you need to get out your bag of tricks and plan on staying on stand a little longer. In that case, I think twenty minutes is a good length, at least until they start running again....and that's another thing. In heavy concentrations, they act like fish that aren't biting and suddenly go on a feeding frenzy. A good bite doesn't last forever, and this brings up that barometric and weather question: reasons why they do what they do, and our theories about that stuff.
Sorry to ramble, this is only personal opinion, other opinions are welcome and respected. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 27, 2006 19:23:58 GMT -6
lol. No, I'm not shy, I have a considered opinion on all those questions, I just figured I have been laying it on a little thick for a tenderfoot; maybe I should let someone else get a word in edgewise?
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 27, 2006 15:23:54 GMT -6
Those are all good questions and the subject of much debate. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 16, 2006 0:06:20 GMT -6
Well, I'm not afraid to stick my neck out and show my ignorance.
I like a rising barometer. First, it means it will be cold and clear and if you hunt at night, as I do, you will notice that the animals move under these conditions. I always see a lot of animals, when it is clear and cold and dark, under a new moon. Especially just after the weather breaks and it stops snowing, barometer rises, temperature drops and the coyotes go crazy. A small window that will probably last 'til morning?
I can't say that I have noticed any other conclusive patterns. Actually, I like to hunt daylights with a falling barometer; overcast, light snow. Same thing, seems to me that the animals move a little better than during stable conditions. Solunar? Attempting to reverse engineer a hunt, I have tried to see a pattern, but I can't.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 20, 2006 16:37:45 GMT -6
I don't know where I stand on this? I have been on stand and called possibly three badgers, lifetime. Were they just traveling in my direction or actually coming to my call, I can't say, for sure?
Now, the other situation, usually night hunting, you set up a stand and a short time later, you see eyes, then you don't and then you do, and always the same place. If you get the scope on him for the next time he lights up, you can see that he iscoming up out of a hole, and that is the way I have killed about twenty, or so?
I do not believe I did anything right, other than having the luck to make a stand close to a badger, sleeping in a den or hunting.
It seems to me that when I see a badger, I usually see another, within a short time. I can go a couple years without killing one and other times, I get two within hours of each other. I assume I'm just in the type of cover they prefer, sandy ground and many rodents? But, not always. I have killed a few in the rocks. Whenever I have caught one moving in the daytime, all I have ever been able to do is stop him for a shot, they never seem to be interested in approaching a distress call?
All you can expect is that they will come up and give you a look. Much better chance of that happening at night, at least their eyes give their location away.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 4, 2006 9:26:33 GMT -6
"My problem is that if I am out on a hunting trip that is what I am doing. I am hunting not scouting so I look for structure and any and all things related to good coyote habitat."
Yeah, that's my problem, too. Seems like the best way to scout it, is to hunt it? Since I'm already there.
Hi Quinton. It's me, Leonard.
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Post by lb on Mar 1, 2006 19:49:08 GMT -6
Consensus doesn't do a thing for me, but if some others like to "pre-locate" by howling, they are hunting with different methods than what I use. Which is all well and good, I'm not a crusader, I just talk about what I do and what I know.
Yes, if the area holds coyotes, I expect to see them. The degree of success fluctuates due to time of day and weather factors. It also depends on the type of geography. I hunt sagebrush flats at night, and expect to see a lot of animals. I hunt heavier cover on daylights and expect to see animals during the first 3 or 4 hours of the morning. After that, it's hit and miss. Spotty. Ratio goes way down, unless there are serious weather conditions developing.
In some of my better areas, daytime calling, I have called coyotes on every stand and promise myself to quit on the first dry stand, usually around 9:30 or 10? What that should tell you is the value of morning, crack of dawn hunting and apply it to where you hunt.
There are some places where I don't hunt nights because of laws and don't hunt days because it's unproductive. But, I will hunt two, sometimes three different states on a single weekend. So, it's worth the drive, when it's good. I actually cover a lot of ground in a weekend, 800 miles perhaps? I'm a city boy; wish I lived where I could find good hunting, but I do what I have to do to maximize the yield.
I better quit, this is getting pretty deep.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 1, 2006 13:19:02 GMT -6
Prelocating, for me, means the same thing as scouting. Look for sign, look for cover, consider potential stand locations. You can establish that they are there a week in advance and it's a fairly safe bet that they are still around, and if they aren't you will know that in short order. When it comes to locating, via howler or siren, that is not "prelocating for the very reason given by Rich. They can travel miles from bedding areas to hunting fields, every night. The other reason why I don't bother with prelocating with a howler is because that is, or (should be) active hunting. I expect a coyote, that hears my howl, to come to the call silently. In that case, you need to be ready, with a gun in your hands. So, let's just say you howl and get a response from a distance and drive over there, if there is a handy road in that direction? But, what if you had a closer coyote, within it's own territory, that was approaching your location, and watching you while you excitedly jump in the truck and drive off. Don't think that doesn't happen to howling locators. Where I see value in "prelocating" is in the case of a long valley that holds a certain amount of coyotes, and you are methodically advancing from one end to the other, with no success. Let's say you don't have any idea where the coyotes are, so you can use a siren or a howler and get an idea where your time is best invested. Bear in mind that in some areas, coyotes are not inclined to respond vocally during daylight hours. You should be aware that howling can be non productive, if you don't know what to expect, or how to handle responses, vocal or otherwise. This howling is a misunderstood tool, by many. It's something you need to develop by experimentation. Even as I reflect on what I have written above, I realize that it can seem confusing and some people will find much with which to disagree. If we only understood the language of the coyote a little better, things would be so cool. Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 1, 2006 10:25:36 GMT -6
I agree with Rich. The fact that you have not had a lot of luck, (so far) does not mean that it is a waste of time to continue on stand after killing a single.
I think you are partly right, when you say: "depending on what part of the country your calling like east,west,south north and terrain."
Some places are so spread out, especially at night, I can tell if there is another animal within ½ a mile, or more, so it doesn't pay, if you kill a coyote ten minutes into the stand, to wait another predetermined amount of time. You have already attracted every animal within sound of you call, so to wait around, in some situations won't bring many rewards.
But, in heavy, or broken cover, daylight hunting, and you kill an animal early in your stand, it is worthwhile to hang in there, but not excessively long. An example: you start a stand and kill a coyote within three minutes. Do you stay another five minutes, or treat the stand normally and get up when you usually would? I play the stand out normally, as if it didn't happen.
I know a very successful night hunter that extends his stand ten minutes after every kill. That can and does stretch some of his stands past the thirty minute mark. The theory is; if they are right there in the area, why leave? Nothing wrong with that logic.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 10, 2006 13:24:23 GMT -6
Yeah, works in the daytime.
In that described event, I saw that cat from the top of the first two hills and got after him. At the top of the third hill, there was a wash, two hills and a saddle to the left. I scanned the two hills, walked up the wash a ways, then hiked over the saddle, and gave up. As I was approaching the base of the third hill, there he was, walking up the wash. He just let me pass him and continue on my merry way. I surprised him by turning around, and coming back the way I went in....only because my truck was back in that direction. I got him, less than 25 yards, but it sure opened my eyes; on a couple different levels. Number 1, that it was possible to catch up to them, and #2, be careful about going too fast, and passing him by. That knowledge has helped me on spotted cats, while driving, etc. and on those that come in undetected, but I might see them leave as I break off the stand, or shoot a coyote.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 9, 2006 12:19:12 GMT -6
I have been walking up bobcats at night for many years. These are animals that hang up, on a stand, and just look at you, but won't leave, either. As long as you are reasonably quiet and keep the light just barely out of their eyes, you usually stand a very good chance of a close shot. Almost always uphill.
In fact, and this IS a very closely guarded secret, if you call a cat in the daytime, and he leaves or you miss him; don't quit, go after him. They never think you will follow them and I have suprised many that had walked over a hill, or out of sight. I think they depend too much on their concealment, they probably hear me approaching but are content to just watch me pass by. I have never heard anyone mention this technique? Very worthwhile.
I once caught up with a bobcat that gave me the slip over three hills, one at a time, until I stumbled on him going back the way I came in. They definitely do not run off into the next county like a coyote.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 8, 2006 0:51:55 GMT -6
Thanks, Steve. Actually, in my own hunting, I much prefer constant sound, but there are a few successful people that use pauses, and I'm not a crusader; if a man is a hand caller, he is probably going to want to use pauses? Also we could get into changing sounds, but why complicate the question?
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 7, 2006 11:09:15 GMT -6
You have the right idea. Stretch out your stands, a little. Hunt where they are.
The only thing that will increase your odds is to use a remote machine, at least until you have a few successes. Cats come to a call but they don't miss any movement, such as hand movement, and they are content to sit and watch for a much longer time than you.
Surprisingly, I have never addressed the question: Is constant calling the key?" in relation to cats? That's (primarily) a coyote question that never seems to go away. With a bobcat, I don't think it matters a whole lot, use your best judgement.
But, if you recognize good cat cover, they are not all that difficult to call. Sometimes they come in fast, with a lot of movement, like a coyote, but other times, you won't see them move, at all. They are just there, where they weren't, the last time you focused on that spot.
Pay attention to shapes.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Jun 11, 2006 15:14:14 GMT -6
Scott, do we need to read that twice, for emphasis, or did you make a little mistake? Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on May 23, 2006 11:22:18 GMT -6
I'm glad somebody asked the question, Cal. I have been wondering why this needs to be done, why the bitch, and why now? Of course, jr's reasons are his own business, but I find it curious.
As a recreational hunter, I observe the denning season by leaving them alone. But, I'm not a Crusader, every man for himself.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Jul 9, 2006 11:30:55 GMT -6
Good morning, Rich! I figured the Professor would be interested in that particular discussion, but I didn't know that you were on this board? Hey, I was down your way a couple days ago. LB
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