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Post by lb on Feb 15, 2007 23:57:23 GMT -6
Not actually you, bk. Remember, I have heard all of this many times before, and was just recalling and reacting to all of that "thinking outside of the box".
I can't believe I'm getting involved in this? It's not like I really care if anybody buys my story any more. FWIW
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 15, 2007 22:09:59 GMT -6
Lance, I try to be objective and honest about what to expect when a coyote is downwind and you are using mist. Although I have had coyotes hang around for quite a while, I claim (very conservatively) that they will be stationary for about 5-10 seconds, which is plenty of time to get off an accurate shot, if you know what to expect and are ready.
Do they sometimes approach the stand, once they get downwind? Yes they do....sometimes, but I don't make any guarantees about that crap happening. All I promise is a decent shot at a stationary coyote, bearing in mind that this is a coyote that almost everybody will tell you is already lost, once he gets your wind.
On the subject of mixing deer and coyote urine. That is a question that is asked routinely and my answer is that it might work, but why in hell would somebody immediately begin to reinvent the wheel after being given valuable information about something that works? For all I know, elephant piss would work, but so does rabbit/coyote, so why fight it? In fact, I also know that bottled clam juice works passibly well, in a pinch, but it's not as good.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 15, 2007 10:51:47 GMT -6
You're right, fish and I should not have bit the bait. Confuse is a much better term and I don't usually like to play games with word definitions.
A coyote driving a car; intellectually honest?
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 15, 2007 10:26:54 GMT -6
Well, maybe we are splitting hairs, here?
I will agree that a coyote can distinguish human scent from urine mist. Now, we are talking about "fooling" which I can define as a coyote doing something that is unnatural and not in his best interest for self preservation. In that aspect, you are incorrect. A coyote is "fooled" by misting well enough that he alters his behavior and it leads to his undoing. Fits my definition of fooling as near as it needs to be.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 15, 2007 9:25:28 GMT -6
Toddmiller, I agree with everything you wrote, except this:.......
"You simply are not going to fool a canines nose by trying to cover your scent with cover scents or misting."
If the purpose is to "COVER" your scent, I agree.
If the purpose is to "fool a canines nose" I strongly disagree.
Here again, it is (admittedly) difficult to explain what I do with misting, how I do it and why I do it; but to wade in here and say it cannot be done, you are being intellectually dishonest, sir.
Good hunting. LB
edit: as far as, where you can buy the prepared urine mist, I wouldn't tell you if I knew. That predator "bomb" is a joke because it works like a bug bomb, once you press the lever, it keeps spraying until the contents are gone, so you would need a dozen per day, which is rediculous and demonstrates that the manufacturer doesn't quite grasp the concept, since a pint of mist should last a hunter all day, or all night. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 14, 2007 12:37:58 GMT -6
This cloud of mist is easily observable (at night) under the hunting light, way past 100 yards. It doesn't fly off into the wild blue yonder, or spread out very much. Basically, it rolls along, probably two to six feet off the ground, bumping into any and everything in it's path. If it floats between two trees, you can predict exactly when a coyote will stop for you...not ten feet from the tree or ten feet past it, but directly between those trees. I have lost enough coyotes downwind to know when they are affected by the mist and when they are affected by the scent of human. It may not seem strong enough, by cold weather standards, where you would be forced to use a loud lure, but this stuff is fresh, and moist. If you want to see how it works, have another human downwind, and see how long your volunteer hangs in the stream. Humans can definitely smell it and coyotes have a far greater ability, so figure it out.
All you have to do is ask yourself if you think it is worth the effort, but the question of whether or not it works has been decided long ago.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 13, 2007 14:26:24 GMT -6
Rich Higgins has some video of coyotes hanging around directly downwind for over half an hour, while he is misting. Gland lure, or anything similiar just seems to clog the spray head. I filter a mixture of 70-80% rabbit and maybe 20% coyote, then I cut it in half with water.
The finer the mist, the further it travels before it settles. Believe me, the coyotes react to it and act completely stupid. At night, for instance, you can see this mist (reflective, like your breath, on a cold night) floating with the wind for a hundred yards, sometimes.
It's hard to explain, but it seems to cling to every rock and bush and as it eventually touches down on the ground, itself. It also acts as a very reliable way for you to see where it goes, and that the term "scent cone" is a misnomer. Acvtually, it is chased by the wind more like a ribbon and doesn't have a tendancy to spread out, in a cone, as a lot of people have suggested.
As far as experimenting with holding a coyote for long periods, I am involved in contests, so I don't worry about the time element, I just need an open shot at a stationary coyote and this is what I get, almost 100% of the time. On those occasions when you cannot get a coyote to check up as he is determined to circle and wind you, when they finally get there, they suddenly stop, stare, and blink.
Sure, they smell human and everything associated, but they also detect the two things they heard, coyote howls and rabbit distress. And now, as they get downwind, they smell coyote and rabbit. This is enough to cause them to stand around when they know that they should be escaping, but they can't seem to help themselves....and they believe that they are at a safe distance, so (you know) they probably figure; what could go wrong?
This has been going on out here for decades, thousands of coyote hunters have proved that it works well enough to be a useful tool, and I assure you, we all use it, and consider this mist to be well worthwhile.
I didn't invent it, but it seems that I was the first to bring it to the attention to the folks on the Internet. However, it's a hard sell, like telling them the earth is flat, or OJ didn't do it.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 13, 2007 9:23:23 GMT -6
No prob, Steve. Sorry. I get real exasperated in the ten years I have been on the 'net talking about something I was surprised to learn, is unheard of, anywhere but California. I have heard every lame excuse and explanation, all without trying it, just because it SOUNDS ineffective. You may find it amusing that there are at least two companies that have taken my suggestion within the past year or so, and put a knock off product on the market. I never aimed to make money from it, still don't, when it is so easy to make your own. But, if I bothered to accumulate a list of testimonials, you would see some pretty heavy hitters that are convinced that this method works....especially if you are taking video, you will get many times more footage by using this mist. It's a take it or leave it, as I said above, I seldom get involved in crusading, you must have caught me at a bad moment and I apologize again. Last thing I would want, is to be considered a God, like a Coyote God! haha.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 12, 2007 18:36:39 GMT -6
"my thought- you are giving the mist too much credit."
I'm afraid you are wrong and are not really entitled to an opinion because you haven't seen how it works. When I used the words, "massive doses", it is not an accurate description. Just one or two presses on a spray bottle per minute is all that is required, and if you saw it floating downwind, you would see that it is enough to make a difference. I used the word, "massive" because some people figure that all it takes is one squirt just before the coyote arrives exactly downwind, and then they claim that it does not work. But, at least they make a half assed attempt to try it before they claim that it doesn't work.
On the other hand, I know it works and it doesn't matter that you have decided (intuitively) that I give it too much "credit". Fact is, a very high percentage of the people that have tried it, using it properly, believe that it does what is advertized, so shooting the messenger in this case will not invalidate the message.
This is really nothing new. Night hunters in Southern California (I am one of many) have been misting for forty years, I think we know if it works, and how it works and approximately how much credit it deserves, when we kill a stationery coyote downwind. Sole credit.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 1, 2007 11:59:44 GMT -6
LOL. Yeah, I'm here. How are we ever going to stamp out words that convey a misconception....such as "cover scent"?
Everybody knows that a coyote can scent everything clinging to your clothes and body, your soap, your coffee breath, the detergent you washed your clothes in; all of it.
My solution involves misting a mixture of coyote and rabbit urine downwind in massive doses, allowing it to settle on every rock and bush as it drifts downwind.
At some point, if you are lucky, a coyote will circle downwind on you and you will have the opportunity to witness what a difference that "Magic Mist" makes in the coyote's behavior.
Instead of fading further and further and allowing no hope for a decent shot, your coyotes will likely stop and sniff the wind like they are suddenly, not at all in a hurry to escape. and get out of sight.
You have to set up with a good view of your downwind, and if you cannot stop your coyote before he gets there, at least you will have a good opportunity to kill that animal while he is standing there evaluating the situation.
A lot of people prefer to call this a "confusing scent" rather than a cover scent, because we all know that you cannot actually fool a coyote's nose. But, consider. You are on stand, you howl, you use a rabbit distress. A coyote downwind smells another coyote and rabbit, plus your coffee breath. For a few precious seconds, which are all you need, he will be looking directly at you, standing stock still. And, you have a perfect opportunity for a carefully aimed shot. What's not to like about that deal?
Whatever you want to call this method, do not laugh if the prospect of killing most of the coyotes that circle down wind appeals to you. By my conservative estimate, misting will increase your total kill by 10%-15%. I believe that to be worthwhile.
Other folks dismiss misting with a variety of excuses that mostly show an inability to understand the concept, but that's okay, it's a free country.
Hey, I'm not a crusader; if it don't work for you, have a nice day.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Mar 1, 2007 18:27:09 GMT -6
...well, it's not obvious, Amigo?
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Post by lb on Mar 1, 2007 12:56:09 GMT -6
flea, I might have come on a bit strong? I have read your posts before and do not have a negative opinion of you. You figured out the details, head shots, impress friends, not enough information, not suitable for everyone, etc.
As far as the above poster, you might have a slight comprehension deficit if you cannot see the potential for misinformation and abuse, in what flea wrote? I know that was not his intent, and my reply should be (but perhaps was not?) taken as a cautionary comment, rather than a put down.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Feb 28, 2007 12:03:11 GMT -6
Flea, I have no doubt you are a nice guy and a cool shot, but dropping elk with head shots to impress your friends is a weak arguement for a 220 Swift as a double rifle.
When you don't know people and their application, we need to be cautious in recommending proven cartridges for general all around use. After all, why is there so many 30'06's and 223's, if one is just as good as another? While it is amazing what can be done with any particular cartridge and rifle combination, there are good reasons why deer rifles are one way and varmint rifles are a little different. I think there are a few states that require (at least) twenty-four caliber for big game? Maybe it's because, in the past, they have seen people trying to impress their friends with completely inadequate firearms?
Head shots are for specific situations. Depending on the distance, the hunter needs to realize that's the first thing that will move, on an animal. Have I done what you suggest? Yes, in fact, but I am very careful as to who I discuss it with, and it is (for sure) not on an open forum on the Internet because there is no room to state all the conditions and whatnot. I can just see somebody reading about how another guy shot an elk with a 220 Swift, and decided to try it, himself....armed with 4,000fps, 45 grain VMax's, cross canyon.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Jan 25, 2007 22:34:45 GMT -6
Probably?
It's a smaller case, holds less powder, but the felt recoil comes from the weight of the bullet and the weight of the rifle, besides the volume of the case capacity. So, a heavy 25'06 shooting a light 75 gr. bullet might have less perceived recoil than a ultra light weight 243 with 100 grain bullets
By the way, I'm not much of a fan of the A Bolt. The 60º bolt lift has less leverage on hard extraction, and if you plan on handloading, you will likely experience hard extraction, at some point.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Jan 24, 2007 23:28:39 GMT -6
Some good suggestions. A 6mm or 243 makes a good dual purpose rifle. Of course, it depends on what type of hunting you do and where you hunt. A 25'06 is not out of the question as a dual purpose coyote/deer rig. Any of 24 calibers, you need to handload and select a good bullet for the purpose. I have a 25'06 Ackley and don't bother with different loads and different bullets. I use the 100 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip for everything, it exits a coyote without a big mess and is a very good choice as a big game bullet.
When I first started hunting predators, in the late sixties, the only rifle I had was a 270. Well, it worked okay for a season or two, but I gave up trying to find an acceptably accurate bullet for coyotes, considering the long range capabilities of the 270. I doubt that you would have better luck, unless you go custom and select a barrel with a twist to handle both heavy and light bullets. Really, it's not a predator cartridge, but makes a damned fine big game rig. My opinion.
I have owned both 243s and 6mmRem, and it's just a great choice to fill a dual purpose role. When I went to Aftrica, I brought a 300 Mag and a 6mm. I didn't shoot a single animal with the 300, used the 6mm for everything from Kudu to jackal.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Dec 7, 2006 13:55:05 GMT -6
Is that 3¼" a misprint, or what?
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Post by lb on Dec 7, 2006 9:40:54 GMT -6
I'm no help.
I have used a Benelli, liked it a lot, and I own a 11-87 SP. I further regret trading an old 11-47, but have to live with the decision. Anyway, I think they are both good.
However, I mostly use an 835 Mossberg....for everything, including dove. It has to be a Ford/Chevy issue, to some degree?
In a duck blind, I have no problem with an auto, but in and out of a vehicle, all day, hunting coyotes, that auto is a pain in the butt negative as well as a safety issue.
Good luck with your choice, LB
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Post by lb on Aug 27, 2006 9:47:07 GMT -6
I really shouldn't get very far into applicable laws, but...... we should be concerned with those laws that PROHIBIT certain activities, rather than statutes, (or officials) that "allow" these activities.
In fact, I have found that one of the most unreliable sources of information about night hunting is Law Enforcement and/or Fish and Game people, in the field, or by contacting them by telephone. They will all (freely) offer advice, and, it pains me to admit; they are frequently wrong.
Read the Fish and Game Codes, that is where you will find the answers.
By the way, I don't like the term used in this thread. "Spotlighting" rabbits, deer or anything else is usually frowned upon, whereas night hunting predators with a light is often allowed and legal: as in, not specifically prohibited.
Good hunting. LB
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Post by lb on Aug 23, 2006 19:16:44 GMT -6
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Post by lb on May 16, 2006 23:58:19 GMT -6
Now, that's funny! I don't care who you are....forgive me, Lord and be with those starving pigmies in Africa.
PS Steve, my grandson missed the same coyote, twice at ten feet, (maybe twelve) and he wasn't moving, either. It's called choke.
Good hunting. LB
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