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Post by trappnman on Apr 12, 2008 7:15:15 GMT -6
I've never heard of a first year trapper, trapping 100 coyotes. If its common by you, than it is. I've just never heard of it.
Myself- I think coyotes is the hardest to have trapping SUCCESS of all I do- fox, beaver, badger, rats, mink and coon.
because they are so unpredicitible- where the others, are very much so (upland coon being a 50/50 thing)
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Post by k9 on Apr 12, 2008 7:28:37 GMT -6
Most lack the work ethic to catch numbers of coyotes. I have never caught 100 because I have never tried to. I have little doubt I could but the gas bill just can't be justified when I live in the coon belt like I do. No live mkt, 24 hour check, and very low grade coyotes brings little incentive to go out and double my efforts to whack that many.
Hats off to guys like Zags who do it.
The basics of coyotes are all a guy needs, backed up by the drive to go after them without quitting, which is what most people don't have.
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 7:31:13 GMT -6
true,not common, as most guys after a dozen or so catches see that $20 each doesn`t cut the cake. but really now, you set on a fresh track and 9 times out of ten in a very short time, there he sits. that`s why you and me and every else says oh boy oboy when we see tracks amd turds everywhere. we know we re going to catch coyotes! and fast! it`s just not rocket science. the main reason most of us don`t do it #1 no money in it, or #2 no coyotes in numbers TO catch, or #3 poor access to private land parcels, or #4 lousy wet muddy weather. but not because coyotes are smart or unpredicable or hard to trap. nope, not at all. THEY`D BE BETTER SEWRVED TO DISCUSS THOSE 4 ISSUES RATHER THAN A BUNCH OF FOO-FA-RAH ABOUT STUDIES AND ETC. that jhust impresses newbies and kids that don`t know any better and buy into the rocket science balony.
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 7:32:46 GMT -6
k9, we posted at almost the same time, the same thoughts even.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 12, 2008 7:48:10 GMT -6
Bob the more coyotes one has the more the makeup of young coyotes and the easier they will be to work during normal fall harvesting. There is a differance in coyote avoidance in areas of heavy pressure versus in areas of little to no pressure, it can be seen in many forms be it trapping,calling or even using an airplane. They do adapt and that is what makes them more interesting than other fur-bearers. The bigger the arsenal of tools the more success one can have in a shorter time frame. More so on depredation work but blending all tools in the fall/winter can help reduce cost as well to fur harvestors.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 12, 2008 7:57:31 GMT -6
just to touch on the money a bit, and not to get into a discussion about it. While I could make more money trapping coon early, I got several months after coyote to trap coon. So, because I love to trap canines, and because I can trap coon on the same ground at the same time, I do ok.
100 coyotes- of course it has to do with your area as far as accessibility and populations. I've done 100+ one time. But you are right k9 in that I can only "afford" to trap coyotes in a limited area for a limited time- after you got the easy ones, the cost per pelt becomes too overwhelming.
but enough of sad things...
I was self taught on coyotes. And it took me a long time to learn. When I started coyotes, I was a lifelong water trapper, with brief stints for fox, skunks, coon from time to time.
My first years of coyote trapping were 2 weeks before water opened. And my first 3 years I got 7, 0, 15. At the time, I felt bad- but looking back- for 2 weeks with only 40 or so coyote sets- all poorly made- I guess I didn't do too bad.
Lets jump forward to today..... and today I feel that I got a pretty good handle on coyotes, and have trapped a little beyond my backyard with the same success. I expect to catch coyotes.
But darn it all- it seems like some of my home coyotes give me fits.
I've trapped a week in KS and a week in high plains WY. What I found there, that was different from my country here, was that I got no dinking around at the set.
By that I mean, no digging, no tracking; either coyote or untouched.
In WY, I thought it might be the soft sand everywhere- that since everything was soft sand, they were less likely to dig at soft patterns. But with frozen ground in KS, that obviously wasn't the case there.
Why this was, I don't know. Maybe just coincidence because of short time periods.
But here- it always seems like I have a few each year that dig at the set, that walk the edge of the pattern etc.
Another thing that makes coyotes a little different than coon, etc- is that 1) they are so mobile and 2) they react quickly to use changes, hunting pressure, etc.
They aren't rocket science- and its not to hard to catch 10-15 a year without much knowledge and use of basic sets- but its a little different taking them in consistent numbers.
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Post by robertw on Apr 12, 2008 8:03:44 GMT -6
I concur with Bob and K9 on this issue.
IMHO, most coyote trappers complicate coyote trapping to the point of where they are their own worst enemy.
NONE of this is rocket science. A good work ethic, good equipment, good urine and bait along with available coyotes to catch is all that is needed.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 12, 2008 8:11:21 GMT -6
"most" coyote trappers, from states that record such- catch an averge of 2-3 coyotes.
let me put it this way- in 1 day- I can teach someone enough about either rats, mink, beaver, coon to take numbers that would match anyones. No knowledge of much needed other than mechanics.
I do not believe that would happen with coyotes.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Apr 12, 2008 8:31:37 GMT -6
let me put it this way- in 1 day- I can teach someone enough about either rats, mink, beaver, coon to take numbers that would match anyones.
You cant teach work ethic and desire
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Apr 12, 2008 8:34:35 GMT -6
I've never dirt trapped a coyote in my life but methinks I have enough knowledge if you put me in the right parts of texas a hundred wouldnt be a problem.
Had a buddy down there this winter that did over 200 in a month he said they were like fleas, now he isnt a novice trapper by any means but he isnt a big time yote trapper either.
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 9:01:26 GMT -6
all this talk about smart ones , or adc being harder than fur, or the scornful "anyone can catch PUPS" type talk is guys trying to pump their own opinions of themselves. all coyotes are animals, and thus lack the ability to reason. any human not smarter than a coyote has real grey matter shortages. they are all easy with a little free thinking. usualy it`s lack of weather , time, acccess or convenience( i.e. not worth the effort), not anything to do with the alpha or the "smart" one or the last one or spring in sheep country. this whole discussion is about like talking about smart muskrats. zero difference if a man is normal in his work ethic and following the basic knowledge available. and he never needs to read rersearch or studys or b.s. books to get there. just common sense and a work ethic. that`s all.
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Post by trappnman on Apr 12, 2008 9:10:42 GMT -6
ah yes, I've heard about those that catch 100% of the coyotes in their area every year, and never have one that messes with them, indeed have never seen a track on the pattern because all that visit are caught....
yes, i've heard about them...never met one though.....
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 9:14:43 GMT -6
I just cked on that thread agasin, right next to the one "poll, who wears cowboy hats" . about the same level of b.s.. and I`ve never met the coyote trapper that tried and actually worked at it that couldn`t almost catch all the coyotes in his area every year, tman. in fact if not for in migration most can. don`t think so? go into sheep country in wyoming in august and tell me how many coyotes you catch after the w.s. boys get done with them. I`d wager a big fat ZERO!
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Post by trappnman on Apr 12, 2008 9:41:40 GMT -6
we've discussed this before- its continual migration- so unless trapping an island- you never get all the coyotes in an area because its a fluid situation.
Could I catch all the coyoes HERE, NOW, TODAY?
Sure.
tomorrow its a different story.
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 9:59:40 GMT -6
case closed. you just said you could catch all the coyotes here today. to get all of them forever, you just stay forever. that`s all there is to it and how w.s. can maintain exterminatioin levels over wide areas of sheep country. because they get paid to do it. let the county get uppity and think they don`t need control anymore and in a year or less they have problems again, big time.
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Post by k9 on Apr 12, 2008 10:34:37 GMT -6
Only WS can afford to stay there forever, unless you are a sheep man trapping on your own private ranch.
I love trapping coyote and I like trapping coons. Without the coons to pay for my gas, I could not justify to my family such an expensive hobby (coyote trapping). My wife understands the difference, and she isn't even interested in trapping. If she knows I am buying coon traps, she smiles. If she knows I am buying coyote traps, she frowns.
I think that thread has about run it's course, but we shall see if there is anything left to discuss.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 12, 2008 10:38:48 GMT -6
High densities will show more aggression and make calling,trapping,snaring easier over all plus the fact you have a higher population of YOY coyotes come fall time to work on. Young coyotes have less to fear and haven't had the negative impacts in areas like older coyotes. You will catch more in less time and with less miles, than areas hit hard with mange means more time,more miles and more work to make an adequate catch. There is a differance in fur trapping and stopping sheep kills that being you need to locate and work those coyotes doing the killing the quicker the better and the more lambs saved, fur trapping all coyotes are good coyotes to catch, not so in the summer time on a depredation complaint. You can use some of the same tools and get results but many times the trap isn't the fastest and best tool. It could be calling with a dog, could be snares in a fence crawl under, could be an airplane on open terrain or it could take 2-3 of these tools combined to get the loss stopped.
One tool is a handicap when it comes to stopping loss and stopping it quickly in a lot of cases. Migration keeps this all afloat you will always have fill in, the more coyotes the quicker it takes place.
Calling coyotes in areas of high density's and less pressure yield far better results than areas with less coyotes and a lot of pressure. To many that call the coyote havens -they look like an average critter, until some of these guy's try and call them in areas of high exploitation then the game and the numbers change that is a fact. Trap useage would be no different or an airplane, over use a tool and they adapt and the avoidance will go up. It could mean just a simple change in lure/bait used, sets construction, trying a different calling sound or switching locations where they aren't on point watching your approach but keep doing the same things, the same way and avoidance and detection will happen. Because no one kills 100% and many are far from that for sure.
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 10:39:34 GMT -6
here and there both!
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Post by collins on Apr 12, 2008 15:04:33 GMT -6
all coyotes are animals, and thus lack the ability to reason. Bob, you really believe that? What is you definition of reason?
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Post by bob on Apr 12, 2008 17:05:27 GMT -6
how to con the bar tender out of a free beer. no coyote can do that. heck, they aren`t even alllowed in bars.
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