? for Alpha coyote trappers....

[bob]

where is this " other thread"? if it`s on some place that is a pain in the butt to get to, could you give us the short synopsis of it by the various payers.

[trappnman]

Dobbins.

yes- would be nice to see Chris and Scott posting again.

Chris is here everyday...just shy....

[robertw]

I must be blind, I scrolled through that zoo over there last night and never found the thread.

[bob]

robert, I guess its the 5 page thread, started by mark june, where he says all the publications are bugging him for an article and he just can`t decide who to give(sell) his article to. says it will be real intersting and thought provoking. I quit reading after the first couple pages so must have missed the good stuff. the answer to his simple question was answered easily by several guys , so I`ve no clue what the other 3 pages were about. I guess guys arguing it.

[robertw]

Just reading the first page it looks like he is fishing for material to use in the article.

[ChrisM]

Not shy at all Steve.

Just figured it serves no value to the members of your forum, to have every thread I might post in get hijacked and turned into an NTA debate by a few shallow individuals... as the above post clearly demonstrates.

My boobs are just fine bob, no wringer that I can recall.

[ColdSteel]

Beautiful country there CoonDuke you like coming to Carolina tell you what we will work out a trade

[trappnman]

I agree 100% chris- and I assure you, your posts will not be hijacked. Nor will any posts.

Please- I'd like to hear your thoughts on being able to successfully target alphas over any other coyote.

I don't think it could be done- and if anyone thinks that it can be, I'd sure like to know what set is doing it.

I simply cannot conceive any set, that wouldn't take every pup that came along.

If there is a super set or method that takes the alpha, I'd sure like to hear about it- but then the question arises- if a certain set, lure, whatever is so effcient....

and in any case- wouldn't sets attracting alphas, be able to be LESS....studied or whatever...because of the alphas convidence and aggressiveness?

Isn't that why they say wolves are easier to catch in a way because they are so bold, and don't care?

[collins]

I think people are taking the "targeting the Alpha Male" out of context. I believe the original article just implied your trapping for a older and more mature coyote so you need to use some different types of sets.

But I agree, how would you know you caught an Alpha Male? Maybe the article should have been "Targeting Mature Animals". But there still is no way to prevent a pup from getting to the set first.

Just some thoughts.

[musher]

Wolves easier to catch?

I say "Nay! Nay!"

For one simple reason. They cover more ground and you don't have too many cracks at them. They are also very nervous of man. they won't live near peoiple like coyotes do.

I've caught alpha wolves. How do I know? Females menstruating/males with rubbed bellies and tails. Other pack members caught at the same time didn't have these characteristics.

Other times you'll have an aggressive wolf that is tail posturing in alpha mode as opposed to submissive posturing

www.timberwolfinformation.org/kidsonly/posture/postures.htm

It's true for wolves and dogs. Logic says that it must somehow apply to yotes.

As for a set to catch just alpha wolves? A bold animal, which could be an alpha, might work a set quicker. It might even work a set that has "danger, stupid" all over it. Timid ones would shy away.

So make sloppy sets and get the alpha's!

[trappnman]

I believe the original article just implied your trapping for a older and more mature coyote so you need to use some different types of sets.


ok lets run with this-

we have lured hole sets and lured non hole sets, plus blind sets. Thats it.

So when we talk sets that would target alphas- and I think we all can agree that it would still be first come, first serve- what ype of sets would that be?

Alphas are more agressive, more bold, correct? So are flashy, bold sets the ticket? Sets that might spok pups?

or would the opposite occur? Small subtle sets- in which case, they'd take every coyote that came along.

I just can't see making any set that would target a general class- alphas- more or less than any other good coyote set.

When one goes to tricky type sets, hes not dealing with a large population I'd have to guess. and then isn't that last cooyte, more a wised up one than anything?

So in such an area, where you know you have one left thats ignoring your conventional sets- you can go to a subtle or blind set.

but in a set up in an unexploited population- I don't think anyone could set traps, and say he wsa targeting alphas.

[trappnman]

I stand corrected musher- another bit of "old lore" layed to rest.....

[collins]

trappnman said:

but in a set up in an unexploited population- I don't think anyone could set traps, and say he wsa targeting alphas.

I agree to that.

I don't know then, maybe he's just trying to market his book and video. A man's got to eat! lol.

[bob]

just went over andskipped around some. looks to me like all the geniouses are over there. we had one of those in vet school, a genious I mean. he went into fulltime armed forces after graduation. I imagine he forgot his way home most every night. but man was he smart. 6 years of straght a`s in everything except clincs and surgery. stuff that you had to use your hands.

[k9]

That thread is just starting to warm up. Love them or hate them ( I happen to love em) ANY coyote forum that has Scott and Chris checking in on it is greatly improved with thier presence. All of you are worthwhile posters but I am glad to see them getting on the computer more.

[robertw]

When ever they explain how "to only catch the Alpha Males" you'll have to let the rest of us coyote handicapped trappers know.

[k9]

No surprise to me, they will not even try to explain that one. I'm thinking Mark J is alone with that philosophy.

[3n]

ANY coyote forum that has Scott and Chris checking in on it is greatly improved with thier presence.

No doubt.

[ChrisM]

Steve, I think you all have it nailed. I know of no set that is either age or gender selective.

I will add however, that I do use a slightly different approach towards coyotes during the summer months. I tend to use more flat sets and more urine, gland, poop etc… more natural odor sets. (Having said that, I confess that one July I took 17 adults off a rough chunk of ground using LDC alone at every set)

I believe you will catch more older/wiser/experienced coyotes with blended sets so I tend to use more of those. I have posted many times, my thoughts on the need for a set to appear natural. I believe it’s even more critical in the summer when targeting older coyotes.

I have never seen where any of this reduces the catch of juveniles, but I do think it picks up a few of the more wary coyotes that have maybe seen a fresh dirt hole or two stuffed with bobcat meat. It at least makes me sleep a bit better when working areas that have a farm kid or three setting a few traps in the fur season. I believe these tactics give me a chance of taking the alpha pair than if I’m simply running dirt holes with fresh dirt pattern like I might in the fall.

It’s sort of a catch-22. In one sense the old male is easy cause he’s bold and aggressive and on the other he’s been around a bit longer and just might have seen a set or three. I don’t know. In the end we get them all if we need them. No doubt, other trappers using other methods do too.

Now, is that old male in my trap the alpha? I have no way of knowing. Except of course when I’m working a specific family group and catch the old male.. I think its safe to assume he’s the alpha. Not that it really matters though. I think June is confused. I think he is using Crabtree’s observations of an unexploited Yellowstone population and trying to apply it to the populations we all deal with. From what I’ve read the Yellowstone coyotes (prior to wolf reintroduction) behaved much like a wolf pack. Almost like they had indeed filled that void in the system.

I agree with what Huber posted… that it’s the old female that you want to get pegged down. That has been my experience and the experience of every ADC man I have discussed it with. Unfortunately, I know of no way to target her specifically either! BUT I can identify her… she has titties!!.

So after all that rambling, my short answer is that I do believe there are methods that will increase your chances of taking the alphas, but I have not seen where you can target them exclusively and avoid the younger of the clan.

I’ll add that K9 has made many excellent points and asked great questions…. few of which have been answered. But no matter…. I think K9 knows the answers!

Chris

[17HMR]

MJ looks like he dont want to debate anymore, thats a shame, he caught a couple of alpha dogs and is tucking his tail tween his legs and running.