|
Post by trappnman on Feb 4, 2008 7:39:20 GMT -6
read this from a wannaby I guess:
" Anyone reccomending 1.75 as the best choice for yotes simply doesnt have to trap yotes for a living."
and I think perhaps he should stick to misktrats or something he does have some knowledge on.
First of all, no one I know, recommends them as the "best" coyote trap. Perhaps paying attention when listening would go a long way to your understanding what WAS said-
that while the 1.75 was not the BEST trap, it cvertainly is a very viable trap IF USED RIGHT.
I'll match my results with Duke 1.75s against anyones catch % on coyotes. I once remember when I was told 1.75s would absolutely not work on westenr yotes- and as expected, that was wrong.
the problem with 1.75s, is their size of course, and those setting them with the abandonment of setting big steel, will be doomed to failure.
BUT- use the trap as intended, that is set it AS a small trap viv a vis guding, set type, etc- and they will hold coyotes just as well as the big boys.
THAT I know for a fact.
O Gorman states- accurately- " I don't get many LOSSES in 1.75s, but I DO get misses"
So why did I go with #3s now?
Simple- takes a fraction of the time to set.
|
|
|
Post by dabrock on Feb 4, 2008 9:13:50 GMT -6
Steve, I've heard some of the same argument about duke 1.75's. I have used the trap for several years and have had a couple pulled apart, however once I determined it was my fault for not bending the jaw ends and made the ajustment I've had no problem. My only complaint is the pan sets to high on my traps. I've been told that this has been corrected. Fact is I plan to order another dozen or so from you for the next season. In Ohio we are limited to the size trap we can use and while do have a few Victory #2, i feel the 1.75 does the job very will.
Dan
|
|
|
Post by garman on Feb 4, 2008 11:14:26 GMT -6
When I was in So. Iowa I trapped many coyote with the Duke 1.75, that was dukes that was 10+ years ago, they worked fine, of course jaws were a little sharp, but held fine. But the montana's are wonderful also.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Feb 4, 2008 11:56:29 GMT -6
People always ask me- do I get more coyotes in the montanas? And I really cannot answer that one.
It SEEMS like I do- but at the end of the year..... its about the same from the "old" days til now.
my little early line- where I took 12 in 5 checks in a new "ritzy"area where I feared about pets plus incidentals- - I also tok a badger, 3 coon and a red (all released) and never had a snapped trap and this was all in rain.
But do I like the Montanas better? Yes, I do. Dogless- once tried, never go back. Enuf said on that. Thought I'd hate them, found I love them.
And I like having the option for a screen.
And yes, for sure a more powerful trap, does come up though stiff ground better in late season trapping.
But the main reason- is you don't have to dick with a bigger trap like you do with a smaller trap. I could bed 5 montanas in the time to bed 1 1.75.
But as far as holding yotes, my year of 126 was all Dukes....... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
oops....my mistake, 107- just wanted to see someones jaw drop...me bad.... ;D
|
|
|
Post by thebeav2 on Feb 4, 2008 12:01:16 GMT -6
I use them because they are Cheap compared to other brands. I can use them for Coyotes fox cats rats coon mink. Not saying they are the best for each animal but I'm happy with my results. I just don't like to be trap poor you know this size for that animal that size for that animal well you get my drift.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Feb 4, 2008 12:08:25 GMT -6
thats a good point beav- a guy could certainly get by using 1.75s on all spieces we got around here quite successfully- not really beaver- yet I took 5 this year in coon slides w/1.75
|
|
|
Post by wheelie on Feb 4, 2008 12:22:54 GMT -6
" Anyone reccomending 1.75 as the best choice for yotes simply doesnt have to trap yotes for a living."
That quote above is correct...
If i was trapping "YOTES ONLY" (for a living) I wouldn't use 1.75's if other options were available (which there are).
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Feb 4, 2008 12:50:38 GMT -6
Tim- they are not the "best" and no one ever said they were-
but as far as using thme trapping for al iving-
90% all the ADC coyotes I've taken, werei n them.
100% of all my collared yotes- were in them.
would I go out on an ADC job of several hundered dollars with Duke 1.75 and feel confident in using them? Yes- many times.
I look at them like a #11 on coon. I don't like dicking with them. YET- I know some very good cooners, that swear by them- one reason, the mian reason- is that they set KNOWING the traps limitations, and compensate for it through methods, location, etc.
Would I tell someone the #11 is the trap to buy if you were making a livng trapping coon? No-
but would I tell someone they COULDN'T make a living trapping coon using them? No.
(all this making a living is hypothetical- no one can make money on fur...)
But the reality is this- those killing coyotes for a living 24/7 365- are using few footholds compared to other harvesting methods.
|
|
|
Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Feb 4, 2008 13:13:15 GMT -6
steve you are saying you can bed 5 montanas to bedding 1 1.75 duke......
im gonna disagree with you on that one but i will go a step further....if you bed your trap the same as me which is.....iwhen i dig my trap bed and push the trap down into it its tight and cover and go...its that simple for me....no twisting turning wiggling or any thing push and go.....but i also use very small trap patterns....now i have used duke#4's and wow what a pain to bed....takes much more time to dig that big trap bed then the small round jawed 1.75 duke....
now i can see where my method is a little dangerous in the freezing temps....for the jaws freezing fast to the sides of the bed...but i dust the bed with peat and push trap in and then cover.....i have not had my hands on the montanas to be able to try so i speak with little expierence on them....i just find it hard to believe that i can bed asquared jawed trap faster than my 1.75's at the rate of 5 to 1 or for that matter even 3 to 1....
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Feb 4, 2008 13:44:18 GMT -6
Aaron- When I was both trying to figure out coyotes and trying to make 1.75s work, I got into the habit of packing my trap tightly inside and outside the jaws. THis method worked well for me, and I'm anal to the extreme when setting them It might be overkill, but I significantly reduced snapped traps, etc by doing this. I won't set a new set with a 1.75 any other way. I might miss coyotes, but I don't lose many.
now on the montanas, I do zero packing.
|
|
|
Post by TurTLe on Feb 4, 2008 15:09:41 GMT -6
Well for what it's worth, there is a guy that lives not far from me, that makes his living trapping, and he consistently runs from 150 to 200 coyotes a season using Duke 1.75's exclusively for those coyotes. Of course he does a lot of other things that go against the "norms" , but they work for him, and it's consistent year in and year out.
|
|
|
Post by walkercoonhunter(Aaron L.) on Feb 4, 2008 16:41:42 GMT -6
steve you say on yourmontanas you do zero packing...why is this...you have a bigger void around the pan between the jaws..how can you get away with not packing there in a larger trap unless your useing a pan cover.....i do zero packing to any extent...all i do is cup my hand over the pan and push thats it takes a second.....but you say you pack your 1.75 tight inside and out.....im not seeing the picture here.....
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 4, 2008 17:02:08 GMT -6
Tman while I know you have caught plenty of coyotes in those 1.75's, checking them out west on 24 hrs and using them in the limited fashion and weather conditions and soils you did is not an accurate rep of how they would preform compared to other traps on the market in fur trapping or ADC work on extended checks and bad soil types over various weather!
trapping a few summertime coyotes and checking them on a daily basis and working in very nice soils, comparing that to hard pan and covering more area and more kills is far different. I think you stated your Wyoming trapping was done in sandy soils for the most part and I believe you looked at them daily?
As you stated they are harder to bed and a smaller kill area leaves what your OG quote stated more misses in some cases and even if a few on a fur line those add up and waste time and time=money. On an ADC job, it means another night of possible lamb killing. I would find the statement that if a guy was doing ADC work for a living that the 1.75 is not nor would not be the best choice and garner the same results as a larger trap in the realm of western ADC trapping where the majority of this takes place!
The reality is the foot trap plays a role in summertime ADC work and you want it all in your favor and use the equipment that will stop the losses as fast as possible that is how you stay making money or keep a gov job! If not then the producers will have you packing sooner or later as the results aren't there! The plane doesn't get them all I can gurantee you on that! It is a combination of tools that will get it done and weather factors, if you have windy days back to back which happens that leaves the plane out and your calling stands reduced in results, then you have the snares and footholds to rely on to catch those depredation coyotes, m-44's not a great tool when it is 80-100 degrees! If you have heavy cover then snares and traps again are a viable tool if the calling doesn't get you immediate results. The foot trap is a tool and part of the arsenal to control depredation and a portion of those are hard to get any other way those are facts and I wouldn't be confidant or would think of using such a small spread jawed trap when livestock is on the line sorry.
The 3n was used for years and piled up a ton of coyotes but my question on that is how many more or how much time would have been saved if back in those days they had the quality traps that existed for the last 30+ years? You used what was at the time, but to stay with a small jawed trap when there are larger and more powerful traps to break cover and stand weather for days on end better? I see little logic in it when trapping coyotes for ADC or fur if not needed because of laws or high domestic issues and long checks.
|
|
|
Post by trappngreys on Feb 4, 2008 17:16:57 GMT -6
I too can bed a square jaw trap faster than my 1.75s. Just pack the opposite corners, sprinkle the peat moss and sift dirt. I have a time getting those 1.75s to bed solid with out packing the whole trap.
I don't catch a lot of coyotes and cats in 1.75s Dukes (maybe 3-4 of each a year) but I have NEVER had one get out nor have I had any trap damage. The offsets jaws are thick enough that they don't need laminating. I just put #2 music wire springs on them, baseplate, turn the jaw tips ups and set. I set them mainly for greys because of the big pan.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 4, 2008 17:33:01 GMT -6
Lamination shines as you add days to your checks and add chain to your traps, due to soil condtions and build up around the chain.
|
|
|
Post by trappnman on Feb 4, 2008 18:46:19 GMT -6
we both know that 1.75s work- out west or here. You were the one telling me they wouldn't work. Sandy soil, hard packed soil, humus soil. Know your tool and it works for you. Don't know your tool, and it won't. If a coyote is caught well, its going ot be there 24 or 48- and you cnnot convince me otherwise- common sense says a coyote works a set less harder the longer there- in summer- hes dead by noon.
If I got deep deep deep snow- then a bigger trap- or do what you do- snare, calling, m44s etc.
When I bring up yearly foothold numbers, you say numbers don't matter..... when I say I only do a few summer yotes- then apparently they do. 50 summer yotes or 100- the patterns are still there.
Never found summer yotes a problem to catch, do you? what trappngreys said regarding bedding.
I a;ways like it when peole say I can'r do what I do.
|
|
|
Post by thebeav2 on Feb 4, 2008 18:54:55 GMT -6
Ya If I was just trapping beaver I would use all MB 750s And If I was just targeting cats I would be using #3s or 4s and If I was making my living trapping coyotes I would be using #3s or 4s but most of us fit Into the average trapper bracket and like I said the 1.75 Is not the ultimate trap for all species but It sure will catch and hold most critters that It's set for. While a #4 4x4 would really suck for rats mink and coon and would be a bit over kill for fox and would cause you some trouble If trapping yotes In areas with lots of domestics.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 4, 2008 18:55:45 GMT -6
Tman your experiance on open range and working coyotes on depredation is not that of others true/false? If I had only to catch/kill 1-3 a summer I wouldn't sweat it much either.
You also didn't answer my question did you run 72 hr checks in WY?
The failing part will come from trashed traps and this bull that the majority takes place in the first few hours fighting the trap, then you haven't trapped long enough in open areas of paranoid coyotes or wet bitches that want/need to get back to pups! You will find no coyotes that fights harder or longer than one that has pup's in a hole or elsewhere! If you did enough spring/summer coyote trapping you would see that to be the case. Sure some die from heat exhuastion, but remember april,may and June can/is cool enough to keep coyotes alive for the 2-3 days before you check them again.
Catching a few summer coyotes in farm settings is far different, if you ever get the chance to do more you would agree!
Know your tool and it works for you, I agree 100% but to say there isn't a better coyote tool than a 1.75 for year round/all weather, all season coyote trapping just makes NO logical sense. Many,many have proven it to be the case. There is a reason you don't find many ADC trappers using a trap with that jaw spread and No mods, or they must not all be as good as you?
|
|
|
Post by thebeav2 on Feb 4, 2008 18:59:33 GMT -6
I went back through the posts and I can't find where any one has made the comment that the 1.75 Is the ultimate coyote trap.
|
|
|
Post by Zagman on Feb 4, 2008 19:00:03 GMT -6
Beav ole buddy.... Since you trap coons and beaver in numbers, and assuming you use the same trap utilzation for multiple species as you outlined above, how do you like the 220 as your only beaver killer trap? Just asking, man...... Zagman
|
|