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Post by bobwendt on Mar 26, 2007 16:28:56 GMT -6
I`d agree on the in heat , not to mention who would look at the animals daily to determine which were in heat or not ? or segregate or hold that pee separate? and why would in heat be any more attractive to a bonded pair than any other pee? I don`t see the off target animals wiley does from pee use however. maybe because to him anything not a coyote is "off target". to me porkupines are worth $57 each, what I get for them. as are skunks etc . and a person can avoid that stuff to some degree by location selection. true no one is 100% self made, but some are more self made than others because they were in more places men had not been before, metaphorically speaking . some things no one else has ever learned, or at least never told before. like the urine salt sedimentation and it`s value. freezing out pee. keeping cats alive a day to get a pint of pee. and other stuff. at least I figured that on my own and no one showed me even if others already new it or discovered the same on their own. the wheel does get invented simultaniously by different people at the same time occasionally. but not everyone tells their neighbor about it. lol, the smart ones!
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Post by trappnman on Mar 26, 2007 17:10:48 GMT -6
I get the same non targets- skunks, possums, coon- no matter what I'm using.
True middle of the field locations cut down on possums, and coon to a degree- but skunks show up anywhere.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 26, 2007 17:53:24 GMT -6
sold one $135 skunk this year, 21 $65 dollar ones and the rest about $30 each. this is hides, essence and skulls. I didn`t even count the rendered fat, but that will likely be 300 bucks or so. I wish the cheap coyotes and coons would quite messing up good skunk sets. a cat doesn`t bother me too bad as long as not one in just every set .
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Post by Wiley on Mar 26, 2007 18:08:40 GMT -6
T'man: "I get the same non targets- skunks, possums, coon- no matter what I'm using."
Understood!
These species are not the salt lovers that deer, rabbits, and porcupines are.
Rather than change locations to avoid salt lovers, it's easier simply to use lure and/or bait. Fresh droppings and gland lure holds as much attraction as good urine without the non targets.
~SH~
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Post by CoonDuke on Mar 26, 2007 18:49:22 GMT -6
If you want the urine salts and freeze out the urine, you have to do it in the right order.
Let the salts precipitate out first, drain off the top and collect the salts. Then you can freeze out the liquid urine.
If you freeze it out first, a lot of the salts get thrown away with the ice.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 27, 2007 5:04:36 GMT -6
the salts will coontinue to precipitate out indefinitly, although more at first than later. wiley, I`ve yet to see a deer rabbit or porky that isn`t attracted to , well, everything from mint to rotten meat based stuff to anals to nothing but fresh dirt. heck, I catch them in blind set , but as said earlier, never in such quantities to merit not using pee. 3n , I`d guess the less you use the less you catch of porkies etc, in fact the less you catch of everything. but that kind of defeats the purpose. I just don`t have the non target problems some of you do. maybe I`m just lucky or some quirk I do that is so common for me that I don`t even realize I do it. or maybe you guys don`t have tha big a problem with it either,, but just want it to be even littler. I catch maybe 5 jack rabbits, 5 porkies in a month of coyote trapping with 80-100 sets out and rotated to completely new ground say every 7-10 days. I don`t think anyone could call the the 5 rabbits and 5 porkys a major problem, not like mud or blizzards or mange.. but you can bet in that time there are quite a few coyotes I might have missed without it(pee). so it`s kind of like worrying about a pea( no pun intended) under the mattress to me
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Post by Wiley on Mar 27, 2007 7:18:53 GMT -6
BW: "wiley, I`ve yet to see a deer rabbit or porky that isn`t attracted to , well, everything from mint to rotten meat based stuff to anals to nothing but fresh dirt. heck, I catch them in blind set , but as said earlier, never in such quantities to merit not using pee."
So you use pee at every set yet think you can sort out the attraction of mint, rotten meat, anals, etc. vs. the urine you used??
Who do you think you're kidding this time?
BW: "I catch maybe 5 jack rabbits, 5 porkies in a month of coyote trapping..."
And you think every area has the same number of jacks, porkies, and deer?
You just can't walk by a rope without placing it around your neck can you?
~SH~
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Post by robertw on Mar 27, 2007 7:58:25 GMT -6
This last year with the rabbit populations so high some trappers were catching a dozen or more rabbits a day. Trappers trapping right beside them using copious amounts of urine were catching less than a dozen rabbits in a week....(Pan tension is a wonderful thing at times.)
Ironically, when the same trappers that were catching so many rabbits started making sets without urine (bait & lure only) in an attempt to reduce their rabbit catch it did not work. Maybe their lure was spiked with a lot of salt....I do not know but do know that these guys experienced no fewer rabbits when they quit using urine.
This is only one incident, and it should be considered as such, just wanted to throw it out for consideration.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 27, 2007 9:13:42 GMT -6
ignoring.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Mar 27, 2007 9:51:17 GMT -6
RWs comment on pan tension reminds me of another reason I like dogless traps. They often seem to keep there setting even after making catches when my dogged traps need adjusted frequently. For the guy on a time budget, in the dark, etc, that's a plus.
I need to get in the habit of carrying pan tools in my pocket.
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Post by Wiley on Mar 27, 2007 22:15:33 GMT -6
RW: "This last year with the rabbit populations so high some trappers were catching a dozen or more rabbits a day. Trappers trapping right beside them using copious amounts of urine were catching less than a dozen rabbits in a week....(Pan tension is a wonderful thing at times.)"
Pan tension is a given for me at all times.
Correct pan tension won't eliminate jack rabbits.
RW: "Ironically, when the same trappers that were catching so many rabbits started making sets without urine (bait & lure only) in an attempt to reduce their rabbit catch it did not work. Maybe their lure was spiked with a lot of salt....I do not know but do know that these guys experienced no fewer rabbits when they quit using urine."
Circumstantial!
~SH~
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Post by robertw on Mar 28, 2007 7:20:03 GMT -6
Wiley;"Correct pan tension won't eliminate jack rabbits."
It will eliminate MOST jack rabbits Wiley;"Circumstantial!"
Yeah what ever you say...........
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Post by romans117 on Mar 28, 2007 9:15:57 GMT -6
Proud of you Bob! I don't mind porcs. $25 apiece no problem, no skinning. What else on the line brings $25 minimum hassle? Gas for the day. I would take one a day. I set two if not three at any good location, so not worried about missed opportunity. I maybe caught ten rabbits which were eaten and the offender hooked up in the sets near by, about half the time. Who needs an electronic caller when the real deal is squealing?
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Post by Wiley on Mar 28, 2007 11:12:36 GMT -6
Pan tension heavy enough to eliminate most jack rabbits would miss a few light coyotes in crusting conditions.
~SH~
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Post by robertw on Mar 28, 2007 12:23:56 GMT -6
Wiley;"coyote trapping competition with a whopping 12 contestants. If the playing field was level and the stakes were higher,"
There are twelve teams, not twelve contestants. If you desire you can compete as a 1 man team, some guys do this.
The playing field is as level as humanly possible, we've been over that a dozen times.
If the stakes are not "high enough" for you and your sure of yourself bring your money and come on....Nothing in the rules ruling out side wagers that I know of.
You would have as much of a chance of winning this contest as everyone else does.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 28, 2007 15:43:24 GMT -6
You can eliminate some jacks but running 3-4 lbs of tension your still going to cacth your share if you have a decent population and use urine. I have lures that don't hold near the attraction to them as does urine. By using less lure and being on location helps as well.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 28, 2007 17:47:59 GMT -6
but at what cost? not the better location issue , as not setting in the middle of a rabbit herd always helps.... I`d say at a bare minimum it`s a break even and probably worse than that the less canine catch with the less urine. maybe not earth shattering, but enough loss to offset any gains from lessening the occasional non target. heck, even 1/8th inch cable 16" off the ground isn`t totally jack proof and that uses no pee at all. at least not at the snare. sometimes jacks just fall out of the sky and you shouldn`t change your trapping methods over the rare jack hitting the roof of the truck. I don`t use any added pan tension at all , urine at 100% of my sets,and you don`t see me loading up on jacks. maybe 1 a day out of 100 sets, maybe a cottontail or two also. but there are maybe 25 fox OR 8-9 coyotes(pending if in fox or coyote country) in those 100 sets too. all or almost all are doubles at least so if a rabbit in one, eh, so what. he`s a great legal draw. I think sometimes some of you argue popints that are just non issues, just for the sake of arguing. in fact I`m sure of it!
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 28, 2007 18:55:25 GMT -6
I'm sure of it too
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Post by Wiley on Mar 29, 2007 8:46:14 GMT -6
Ohiyotee: "I'm sure of it too"Love the cheerleading outfit Ohiyotee. Go Bob go, RAH RAH! Perhaps you could bring him a glass of water. LOL! Don't be such a follower! That's a good way to walk off cliffs. BW: "but at what cost? not the better location issue , as not setting in the middle of a rabbit herd always helps...."Where there is lots of jacks, they are everywhere Bob. If you could see past your little corner of the world, you'd know that. BW: "I`d say at a bare minimum it`s a break even and probably worse than that the less canine catch with the less urine. maybe not earth shattering, but enough loss to offset any gains from lessening the occasional non target."And I'm sure you have all kinds of extensive research to back that up huh Bob? How do you explain such a high success rate with M-44's, without urine, that require the coyote to actually pull the baited head of the M-44 as opposed to catching them just walking up to a trap in a properly guided trap set. Urine has it's place and that place is in the absence of salt loving critters. BW: "sometimes jacks just fall out of the sky and you shouldn`t change your trapping methods over the rare jack hitting the roof of the truck."Oh I see, a minute ago they were in herds and now they're falling out of the sky. Glad we cleared that up! BW: "I don`t use any added pan tension at all , urine at 100% of my sets,and you don`t see me loading up on jacks."Gee, ah let me see.....hmmmm.....BECAUSE YOU DON'T HAVE AS MANY JACKRABBITS AS THEY DO IN SOME PLACES? ? What did I win? No serious coyote trapper that I know doesn't use pan tension. Not one! I'd never consider setting a coyote trap without pan tension. BW: "I think sometimes some of you argue popints that are just non issues, just for the sake of arguing. in fact I`m sure of it!"Well if your thought process was clear, you'd realize the value in pan tension and you'd realize why you didn't catch many coyotes between your night checks and morning. Oh silly me, what was I thinking? You sell urine don't you? I place a higher value on good information than worrying about stepping on someone's toes. ~SH~
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Post by Wiley on Mar 29, 2007 10:41:36 GMT -6
You're supposed to ignore me bubba!
~SH~
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