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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 23, 2007 9:10:49 GMT -6
got the phamplet from Bill in PA a few years back- very good reading.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 9:14:36 GMT -6
in regard to bob j`s talk about cleanliness. I`ve tried to collect decent pee in the summer, so clean you could eat off the trays, daily washings, strain thru womens pantyhose, and still the pee smells good fresh but within a week it goes sewer. so I thnk, just hot weather , and try freezing it daily as collected and get out of the freezer next dec when 35 degres out. nope, same thing, a week out and it goes sewer. same diet and same erything. yet nov thru march pee is good and spring/summer is bad. why? I don`t know, but my belief is no 1 what is , is, you can`t change it, and #2 I think the foxes ph of his pee changes come summer, or other changes we can`t measure. think, in the fall he is growing fur, laying on fat, getting hormone-ee for breeding. in the summer the reverse. just my thoughts. one thing, I give up on pee collecting starting any day now and untill first frost next fall. I think I`ve tried every scheme known to mankind to collect good pee in the summer and have never been successful.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 23, 2007 9:16:51 GMT -6
interesting-
this is same diet? same conditions?
could you tell if it was the same for YOY over adults? (wondering if mating season changes things)
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Post by billkasten on Mar 23, 2007 9:27:21 GMT -6
Of course there are expense's in getting the pamplets printed but that's my problem. I will send you one but you pay the postage and provide the envelope .I might get ten response's from this maybe twenty ,so the cost is not a factor . When I'm at a convention its free with a purchase of urine . I'm not going to just hand them out anymore. Just a perk for my Coyotes R us friends !
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Post by shagnasty on Mar 23, 2007 10:27:33 GMT -6
never had any turn sewer from carry over, stronger ammonia, but nothing else. have used several urine dealers, some froze about solid at temps barely below freezing and some never showed the first sign of freezing in very cold conditions. not mentioning who on either end as it will serve no purpose.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 10:29:47 GMT -6
lol I backed bill into a corner. that`s twice now. tman, no differnce in age of coyotes, feed or anything. I keep no pups other than some accidents, for sure none in the pee cages and never collected off them, just mature adults of mixed lots from 1 year old to aged, all full grown adults by any measurement.
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Post by billkasten on Mar 23, 2007 10:44:31 GMT -6
Winston you mentioned freezing .When I sell urine its just the way I bought it . Straight from the fox or coyote ,I personaly prefer it that way. If anyone wants to add a freeze proofing agent ,thats up to them and I'm sure Bob will post and tell you how or what to use . The point we re making is that its got to be good to start with . I can see were freezing could be a problem .
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 11:25:09 GMT -6
1 pint glycerin /gallon of the straight stuff. the froze out pee you can`t hardly make it hard unless way sub zero. I glycerin my summer trapping pee as very arid and windy and hot in wyoming and the glycerin doesn`t evaporate or dessicate as easy. my winter use pee for my own use I freeze out up front, so no worries.
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Post by shagnasty on Mar 23, 2007 11:25:14 GMT -6
the ones that froze were cut with water. it was obvious once freezing.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 13:04:27 GMT -6
shag, all pee will freeze if it gets cold enough, but none should at 31 and 1/2 degrees.
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Post by shagnasty on Mar 23, 2007 13:42:34 GMT -6
well the ones that didnt freeze was in low teens to single digits, i guess they had added something. the ones that froze, were a brick at mid 20s. it appeared to be alot of crystals in that stuff.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 23, 2007 14:37:40 GMT -6
anyone could just table salt or glycerin watered pee to prevent freezing, so I don`t know that failure to freeze means much. crystals in the bottom is preciptated urine salts, a natural good thing. I mean a really really good thing if you can get your hands on any of that stuff. I`m not saying any more.
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Post by possumblaster on Mar 24, 2007 21:46:52 GMT -6
Bob W.- I would like to try some of your product. Pls. pm me. Thanks.
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Post by k9 on Mar 25, 2007 8:07:23 GMT -6
So Bob you have a very hard time getting muskrats. What keeps you from using Nutria, other than getting them to Indianda? I remember grinding up lots of them when working on the mink ranch, and thier flesh is comparable to a muskrat if memory serves me.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 25, 2007 9:31:06 GMT -6
can`t get them. remember, dealers want to pay less than $10 a gallon and get garbage or severely watered or worse pee for that price. and trappers wonder why pee is no good or get the attitude "pee is pee" . a fox pees ( mixed male/female) 1 gallon a MONTH. it takes a rat a day and a tremendous amount of labor scraping straining cleaning daily to do that. so you pay 30 cents a rat plus xxx$/mile to go drive and pick up. you can`t feed straight nutria or beaver as the meat gives them the black diahrrea and burns up their kidneys. yet for good pee you can`t feed the cerial dog foods. and you have to gut the beaver/nutria as they are like a cow, a giant gut bag the fox won`t eat and it drips fluids into the pee you can`t strain out and ruins it. fwiw, I get twice what the dealers want to pay, from the few ethical pee dealers out there. and there are damn few. most all they want to know is "WASSA PRIZE? then run specials of a gallon half price if you buy some other stuff yada yada. and trappers are still searching for secret sets and baits, lol. wiley wonders or comments on another thread about looking down on novices/hobbyists. well this is one reason why. and legitimate. cheap skates to such a great degree they and the dealers just cheat themselves. probably a blessing in disguise as if everyone used the good stuff a lot of us would have our catches cut way back. getting back to your question, the financial logistics of pee value and pee collection preclude paying much for rats and certainly less than fuel and labor costs for nutria deliverey, let alone paying anything at all for them. the average dealer sells pee (and I use the term loosly) for less than the actual meat feed costs to produce a gallon, not counting cages, permits, health care, labor, jugs, freezers, etc. so you tell me why? lol. they are cheating huh, and I guess then "pee is pee". wiley further says we need to educate the newbies. well I just did, right here, as I have for 25 years or more, yet the garbage pee will outsell the good pee 500 to 1, because cheaper. wallmart hat for a wallmart head. let me further say I don`t sell retail and will NEVER have enough fox pee to take on another dealer,( always sold out in adavance for perpetuity) so you know I`m not trying to hussle a sale. so fo-ged abowd id!
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Post by k9 on Mar 25, 2007 11:02:02 GMT -6
That's the problem, the junk sells.
I have not bought pee for a long long time, and do not plan to any time soon.
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 25, 2007 11:17:24 GMT -6
my recommendation to all trappers is collect your own, if at all legal or feasable. k9, I think I told you , but I see fox dens w/pups out sunning ,on the cloverleafs on I80 when going thru iowa. I`m sure most get run over -or coyote`d to death. and sure they are scarce to none once a huindred yards from the interstate. but it`s fun seeing them.
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Post by z on Mar 25, 2007 11:28:46 GMT -6
Precipitated urine salts......
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Post by trappnman on Mar 25, 2007 11:34:38 GMT -6
now wait a minute- you can't blame the muskrat carcass suppliers if you aren't willing to pay what they are worth. By the time I figure in all the expenses other trappers never consider, I need to get $40 a muskrat. or I just take the duct tape off my truck and stay home.... ;D I can't help it that low ballers ruined the muskrat for urine collection market...
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Post by bobwendt on Mar 25, 2007 11:37:51 GMT -6
yes, here is an experiment for you that you can do for free. pee into a sparkling clean qt jar all day till it is plumb full up. then just cap it and set it aside and watch your own pee, ( assuming you aren`t a veggie kook). there will be a thin layer of solids collect on the bottom of the glass. those are urine salts precipitating out. those settlings, "mud", whatever you want to call them, to me would be worth a $1,000 dollars a gallon, maybe $5,000 a gallon. want to know why? collect some and use it at a set. nothing else at all, just couple drops of that. not your own, from a fox or coyopte- meat fed winter collected. z-eemo. look in the bottom of a 5 gallon bucket and you will see some, 2-3 ounces at least. it will look like irridescent sparly mud. if you get my drift.
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