|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 29, 2007 15:02:32 GMT -6
Bob you must admit, Wiley got you on the fact of showing no bias when your in the pee business? I like the emotion icon though LOL I'll have to remember that one when tman gets on a bush tangant LOL.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 29, 2007 15:49:03 GMT -6
ct37, I`m perpetually sold out, turn down business all the trime, don`t need any sales. don`t know what you meant by the bias comment.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 29, 2007 16:08:44 GMT -6
You sell pee, there for you would show no negatives on it's use and make the statement that all your coyote sets have urine at them.
Thats all fine and well, but if you have a high jack population, porcupine etc, your going to have alot of non targets. I can control cotton tails much better than jacks with pan tension and urine. Alot of the jacks I get are both front foot caught due to the time spent at the set and the body weight of being on top of the trap.
I had a ranch that I caught 15 porcupines at in 14 days, out of 16 traps, urine was the issue. In the summer I want to catch coyotes, not non targets, then I have to make more visits then I want too directly at the trap location, as the summer progresses you have more non targets to deal with and most like the urine.
We have a great deal of jacks the last few years, I have one rancher who on his ranch shot over 400+ each winter the past 2 years just off his 4 wheeler checking things out and when I went out their on a beaver complaint there was still plenty to be had. There are areas that have a ton of jacks on them! If you use urine in these places your wasting time with jack rabbits for sure.
If porcupines are good money then buy a license and I'll set you up on some places and you can trap all the quill backs you want.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 29, 2007 17:00:01 GMT -6
by that same line of thinking, you are a government trapper and would like all sport trapping made illegal. we know that is not true, so why would you impune my integrity insinuating I would falsify my opinion ,to sell pee? I don`t sell to the public except a handfull of carry out business, and take on no new dealers on fox pee as perpetually sold out, so why would I alter my opinions? to sell more pee? don`t need to, it sells itself. your 16 traps for 14 days and 15 porkys, so the other 15 traps weren`t any good? and it`s all the fault of pee? baloney. you could have used marshmalows for lure, or mint, or glands lure, or rotton meat, or fresh meat, or a blind set, and likely caught the same 15 porkys. now, if you know pee causes this problem, why the heck did you use it? dumb last year but smart this year? gotcha! fwiw, the porkys are a sideline to me,a pleasant one, but I get 100 for a live coyote, $250 or there abouts for cats, so the porky is just a bonus and not a primary. that rancher where you caught the 15 porkys, was he mad you caught them? didn`t think so, they all have the starving cow with the quills in her nose stories. no love lost there. I`m going to e mail all the state supervisors(tongue in cheek) and ask you guys get busy on the porkys, lol, you know, to increase pee sales.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 29, 2007 17:55:15 GMT -6
Bob, I'm not saying your a bad guy or miss leading but it would be hard for someone who profits from the sale of a product to downplay it's use.
The porky deal was when I was new to the west and didn't have porky knowledge, guys told me they love salt based products, I cut down the pee and I have really cut down the porky catches since that time. Do I still catch some you bet, but not near the numbers I used too.
I used to use pee at 75% of my sets for years, now less than 25% of them and I have not noticed a drop off in coyotes or I would put up with more non targets to catch the coyotes I miss but it is darn few if any. I use urine liberialy on a rusty trap remake, when fresh traps are low or on a cow skull/bone 15-25 Ft from the set.
I have better luck with not catching non targets with more mild lures, less showy sets, versus peeing them all up or using loud skunky type lures. Or alot of fresh dirt showy sets.
If it works for you great, but in many areas porkys and jacks can be a big issue with the use of such things as pee and louder lures.
|
|
|
Post by wheelie on Mar 30, 2007 6:11:56 GMT -6
Pee is no good...please don't use it
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2007 6:18:34 GMT -6
Funny wheelie
|
|
|
Post by ohiyotee on Mar 30, 2007 7:20:45 GMT -6
how many coyotes do you think you can catch on aged human urine?
|
|
|
Post by k9 on Mar 30, 2007 7:44:43 GMT -6
"How do you explain such a high success rate with M-44's, without urine, that require the coyote to actually pull the baited head of the M-44 as opposed to catching them just walking up to a trap in a properly guided trap set."
That's a good point Wiley. I rode on an M-44 line with Darin Hetlund out there a time or two, and you guys really stack them up in the fall and winter. I am sure it was a one week check type situation given the lethal methods. All lure, no urine set on the same type locations a trap would be.
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 30, 2007 8:05:56 GMT -6
ohyiote. my guess, dang few. if you want to try it, let us know how few. the m44 explanation doesn`t cut any weight with me. apples to oranges. it`s a lot easier to get a coyote to bite and pull what you want him too than to step where you want him too. that`s why most gmen don`t trapmuch, too difficult compared to getters or arial gunning. too time consuming, to costly, too slow etc etc . plus they don`t give a rats hiney if the coyote is dead or ate by eagles or green bellied or rotton or a kit fox is protected ( they love pulling stuff too). the gman gets his 3 squares without selling live or dead animals. most people shoot or snare coyotes successfully without pee, doesn`t extrapolate over to no good or not needed for trapping. heck, I`ll not fight it anymore. don`t use any at all. like wheelies says, it`s no good. especialy if trapping anywhere around me don`t use it. I don`t want anyone drawing the coyotes attention away from my toe jam on a stick sets.
|
|
|
Post by Wiley on Mar 30, 2007 13:00:36 GMT -6
BW: "the m44 explanation doesn`t cut any weight with me. apples to oranges. it`s a lot easier to get a coyote to bite and pull what you want him too than to step where you want him too. that`s why most gmen don`t trapmuch, too difficult compared to getters or arial gunning. too time consuming, to costly, too slow etc etc ."
BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
If he steps up to the M-44 to pull it, HE'D ALREADY BE IN MY PROPERLY GUIDED TRAP you dork.
Once again you expose your total ignorance on a topic to the entire internet world. You just don't know enough to quit when you are behind do you?
It's a hell of a lot easier to trap coyotes than to get them to pull M-44s. All they have to do with a trap is step up to the set if it's guided properly. With an M-44, they have to actually pull it. The more you type the more I question how much you really do know. You missed this one by a mile.
The reason most G'men don't trap much is due to the number of ranches they have to take care of at any given time. You'd be the first to cry foul if you saw a coyote sitting in a government trap for 10 days. Heck, even most ranchers who don't like coyotes don't want them sitting in traps until they are dehydrated. How many ranches do you think you could cover with traps on a 24 hour check. I cover 3 counties. You absolutely don't have a clue do you?
If I want a coyote and I have the time to run traps, there is no ground method besides calling that is any more effective than traps. The reason I choose M-44's over traps is because I could cover more complaints and didn't have to worry about getting back every 72 hours but M-44s are not even close to traps in effectiveness if the weather is half way decent.
Why do you type about things you don't have a clue about? You only make yourself look like a fool.
~SH~
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2007 13:08:46 GMT -6
Bob come on now. To get coyotes to elicit a bite/pull response is not as easy as you would think. Ask any lure maker who has tried there hand at good effective m-44's baits/lures. You need something that will be a constant at getting that reaction. Many of the normal trap type lures get side rolled, crapped on and leave the getter unpulled. There is a lot that goes into making a good getter lure/bait that will get the only response to make the unit work that being bite/pull.
Population comes into play, time of year as well. I can tell you I'm much better at trapping coyotes than m-44's. A coyotes smells lure,pee, bait etc, they will investigate a majority of the time getting them to the trap is a given, holding there attention to work the set and guiding the coyote over the pan is what it is all about. You can use trench sets with no bait,lure or urine and a get a coyote to step on the pan, set a m-44 on a hill top with none of the mentioned and see how many coyotes are just going to pull it? You can blind set coyotes with foot traps, but an m-44 you need the item that makes them want to bite and pull. Over the course of a year you can have big differences in results with m-44's compaired to traps.
Getter's save time and budget money. On complaints that are far out and can be looked at every 5 days. Knowing a dead coyote can't kill or fight a getter. Snares are the same boat for me, I know that a good snare setup that will kill the coyote if he/she works through it, a very high % of the time will be dead and waiting, with out loosing much sleep. The kill spring,cam lock filed and 1x19 cable has made snaring far more bullet proof for me versus older methods for sure.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2007 13:13:31 GMT -6
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 30, 2007 13:45:42 GMT -6
give it up robert, he refuses to come. tc37, whats that you said, you use PEE on traps as more effective than m44, just more labor.? t.c., I`ve watched a lot of coyotes over the years tugging on just about everything from a dead cow to a fence hung deer hide. they learn it from puphood, tug-a-war. wiley, still ignoring you.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2007 15:46:55 GMT -6
Bob I guess all I can tell you is then if you have the magic bullet sell it, as many m-44 users would make you a rich man if you got the 1-3 sure fire m-44 bait/lures. Pee won't do a thing on a getter, gland lure either, some get real lucky and can make a lure that works well for both traps and getters very darn few compaired to the numbers of lures out there, but most of the really good getter lures/baits where formulated and tested not at trap sets but on getter heads. Most of those commerical getter lures/baits are made by those who use them!
I have watched many coyotes sniff around rabbit holes, hay bales, fresh dirt, snow geese on a stock dam etc, lone grass tuff on a fresh snow, log jam etc. so that makes trapping them even easier on that line of thought because they all walk around looking for food or cover.
M-44's are another ADC tool Bob and unless you use them alot and really figure out how they tick it is not just banging them in the ground and killing coyotes, unless you have Texas numbers then odds are you might kill some, but you will miss many without the proper lures/baits and know how.
|
|
|
Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 30, 2007 19:02:47 GMT -6
Bob you missed my point, Texas has far more coyotes than most states and they I believe are the biggest users of m-44's in the nation. Greed and population from what I know and have read, plays well into response of m-44's and pulls. Yet you still need a lure/bait that will elicit that response. When coyote populations are higher then you have more coyotes per sq mile and you have more competition, that trigger's those tendencies more, no different than with any other tool, you have more uneducated coyotes and coyotes that compete making it easier to trap,call,snare, m-44 etc.
Big bait stations help get them fired up, but you can't always rely on them at all places and all times of the year, so you need a good getter lure/bait. Believe what you will, but until you use this tool it is easy to say "aw shucks just pound them in and the coyotes will be pulling them like mad". That is far from the truth.
I'll tell you what Bob get a non resident license this fall you can stay at my house and I'll set you up on some ranches to trap and then after your done tell me I have coyotes crawling all over themselves. You'll find in many areas you will be keeping 4-5 coyotes at best and some ranches 3 out of 10 will be saleable. Then get the res license as you will be a stones throw away and you can count on 50% or more mange their as well, but they will let you trap all the cat's you want. They hook you up with a map and all res ground is good to go, only private deeded mixed in will require permission.
|
|
|
Post by Wiley on Mar 30, 2007 19:42:55 GMT -6
RW: "The coyotes are never in the same spots two years in a row, at least not that I have seen."
Coyotes will select their favorite places in any given habitat. If you don't believe me, you can check with virtually any radio telemetry study that has ever been conducted on coyotes.
The more a person traps in an area, the more familiar they are with the coyotes in that area and their preferred areas.
If you don't even know that, that says alot about your knowledge of coyotes Robert.
Bob,
You've never set an M-44 in your life. You don't know what you are talking about again. It's easier to trap a coyote than get them to pull an M-44, period. That's not even debatable and certainly not from someone who has never made the comparison. The more you type, the more you show how much you don't know.
I'll add this to your list of stupid statements along with fence hanging causing 90% of peg legs in coyotes. Sheesh!
Don't drink and type Bob!
~SH~
|
|
|
Post by bobwendt on Mar 30, 2007 20:13:51 GMT -6
tc37, you better go to texas and ck. out the mange there, they are gone in most of texas and ks and vast areas. s dak is just recent in the mange dept. that other guy, IGNORING!!!
|
|
|
Post by timbob on Mar 30, 2007 21:22:10 GMT -6
Trappincoyotes37 said: "To get coyotes to elicit a bite/pull response is not as easy as you would think. Ask any lure maker who has tried there hand at good effective m-44's baits/lures. You need something that will be a constant at getting that reaction."
Who makes the best getter bait?
|
|
|
Post by k9 on Mar 30, 2007 21:33:22 GMT -6
Don't know about the best, but I know Carmen's Canine Call is good.
|
|