Blind Sets

[trappnman]

One comment I'd like to make after reading most of the "old time" trapping books on mink from authors like Herb Lenon, E J Dailey, F Q Bunch, J K Conner, Don Garbow, Bill Hoffman, Johnny Thorpe, O L Butcher, and Bill Nelson, etc. the "blind sets" these men describe are far and few in between that would be totally 100% "natural non-altered by the trapper". Everyone one of them describe "shaving the bank" or "covering the spring seep" or "digging a hole into the spring seep" or "building a tunnel from rocks" or "digging a tunnel through dirt/sod" or "creating a shelf" as "blind sets". Many of these same authors state that a good blind set man can "make" a blind set where they want one.

agree 100% and its exactly how it was growing up with my relatives that were contemprarys of men such as Bud Hall.

where this new defintion of "unaltered" came in, is beyond me. but as I'ver said, and as kelly said, a blind set man takes that altering sets as a given.

But it does seem, as though the non blind setters, have a higher standard.

if this comment- 100% blind pockets was directed at me- I did not say that, or anything close to that.

I think my quote was a "depression".

I've posted hundreds of water pictures over the past few years- showing many types of blind sets for mink- and all utilize a depression- from 1" to 2" to 3" to a hole- its part of MY blind set methods. Part of what I contribute my success to.

Yours may vary.

[NittanyLion]

I have my own ideas what I consider a blind set to be but what does it matter. There are some that are going to disagree and I will get ripped and probably deleted.

[trappnman]

deleted if you make comments like you have in the past-

I guess us midwestern trappers are so unsophisticated, we don't even know what blind sets are-

Bud Hall, Gilsvek, et al- just dolts

my dad- I should have corrected him -Dad- you stupid ignorant hick- dont you know if you alter a set, its not a blind set? Who you kiddung dad- youre just.....just....just an altered set trapper!"

good times............

since pockets are not blind- its unbaited vs baited? with the logic some have- how can it NOT be that way?

yet- its ignored-

and you say I like to argue?

LOL-

[CoonDuke]

Steve, your level of paranoia is getting bad.

I was always under the assumption that your resting set was a natural depression in the bank, when a mink travelling along the bank naturally stops. Which in my mind is a true blind set. Even a depression made with your foot is pretty much the same thing.

But a empty pocket set with the attraction of the hole and fresh dirt has the potential to pull a mink off it's path...even attract a swimming mink to investigate...just like a rat hole.

Blind setting in my opinion is a learned skill and if one has that skill it is something to be proud of.

This whole thing got started because of the baited pocket/blind set argument. I don't think I read one post on any of the forums from one of the high numbers pocket guys that said blind setting didn't require knowlege of the animal and skill. They just think thier method is more efficient.

Very similar to the 1.75 and coyote thing. You adapted to using them by using a trappers cap and careful guiding. By someone saying using a bigger trap is more efficient does not take away from your abilities with a small trap...they are saying that a bigger trap increases the odds and can do nothing but increase your catch!

Sometimes the method that takes the most skill is not the most efficient. Calling a turkey into shotgun range takes skill...but popping them out of the truck window with a rifle is sure freakin' efficient and will win every time.

[CoonDuke]

Answer this question...

Take two people who have never trapped before. Take 5 minutes with each person.

The first show how to dig a mink pocket and place the trap. The second show a set where the trap needs to be placed in the minks path.

Give them each 50 traps and 25 locations and let them set for a week. Which trapper will have more mink at the end?

[BK]

castorgland I'm curious as to how many of your "blind sets" you have to alter to keep up with water fluctuations?
I personally do a lot of work on the trap bed keeping water levels correct.
Zag you didn't mention swim, but hey this thread doesn't talk about that blind set. LOL

[kelly]

Jul 24, 2009 20:36:07 GMT -6 BK said:

castorgland I'm curious as to how many of your "blind sets" you have to alter to keep up with water fluctuations?
I personally do a lot of work on the trap bed keeping water levels correct.
Zag you didn't mention swim, but hey this thread doesn't talk about that blind set. LOL

Oh contrare BK, the Bottom Edge set is a quintessential "blind set". In fact, I have caught 10+ times more mink in BE blind sets than all of the other blind sets combined while a resident of Wisconsin. Along with others here, we would like to hear more from you about bottom edge sets and locations. Thanks in advance.

[castorgland]

BK,

Of course I have to alter all my sets after some sort of rain or when the water drops. Which seems like I am adjusting every time over lines.. I don't use the bottom edge set, I have tried it and I didn't have much luck with it.. On any of my water traps I like no more than a half inch of water over my pan.. Thats just me..

I'm sure BE set is deadly on the mink come ice up. But by that time I am on to other critters or another state..

[trappnman]

my paranoia is just fine- are you honestly saying many of these posts aren;t directed at me?so when I respond Im paranoid?

whatever- and I mean that- if thats your conclusion, so be it. To me, its esponding to inaccurate quotes about my methods- such as the 100% blind pockets, or the not wanting to harvest coon thing- neither of which I said-

if I don't correct them, they get a life of their own -

I've always stated the resting set is found or MADE- always - look for natural but MAKE one if not there- why would one limit the options by saying- can't set there because not natural- in a minute- better than natural

But Im done here- we have come ful lcircle

if you have learned nothing from kellys posts, and mine about habitat, then you have leanrned nothing- fit the set to the location-

and yes this was orginally about baited pockets vs blind- and that baited pockets would outdo blind 4 to 1- and I disagreed-

guess if I had known it meant- according to some- baited pocket vs "sets where nothing is altered, no ledges, cutouts, dig ins twigs, rocks or stones aer moved and nothing is touched or altered " well then, I'd agree.

its not blind setting as I learned it- and as I said, ?I'l ltake the definitions I grew up with, and in common venachlar accroding to the authors kelly quoted over the defintions offered here.

but it doesn't matter, thats true-

I'll use the termonology I grew up with. You do as you please

fyi- fresh dirt? really? fresh dirt DOESN'T EXIST ON THIS TYPE OF SETTING-

now its fresh dirt thats the attractant?

Where did that come from?

NO- its placing what a mink wants to see, where he expects to see it.

a depression and a guide stick give an illusion of a tunnell- yet, since I made a depression and added a stick, its not a blind set, its altered. ok- its altered, me bad.

Im done on this, this bs on semantics is just that- and I'm out.

anyone wants questions I might be able to answer, ask me in PM.

[blackhammer]

The bottom edge has been over looked in this thread for sure.In certain country and weather some very good catches have been made.The mostly natural blind set of all.I have used what I refer to as a channel set for all water animals with a 220 guarding very small streams ,ditches and springs as I'M sure many others have.And have caught a fair amount of mink in both the220 and colony traps.No worries about 24 hour checks.

[kelly]

CoonDuke said, "Maybe I am in the minorty with this thinking but I always considered most pocket set locations were chosen where a mink was generally thought to be travelling and the bank was suitable for digging."

Quite frankly, one had better locate any type of set, baited or non-baited/no-lured, where a mink was generally thought to be traveling!

[CoonDuke]

LOL...the key word is generally, you can't be off 6" with a trail set.

[thorsmightyhammer]

I dont consider a blind set to only be a blind set if no alterations are made.

But a manmade hole goeas along way from movinga rock here, cutting a small depression there.

NL if my recollection is correct you keep pretty meticulous records.

Whats your of record of success on mink in a hole with bait vs a hole without bait, if you have that info?

[trappnman]

address no questions nor comments to me on this thread

[Wright Brothers]

So a hole out in the field with a trap in front, no bait, lure, or urine is a blind k9 set? You guys crack me up, argue the definition of definition, for a week. Is that what's called debating properly? LOFL

[Sage Dog]

In the West, blind sets for bobcats can and do produce extra catches. In practice though, perfect 'blind' sets are more frequently converted to 'flat' sets via the addition of olfactory and visual attractors. Then when a catch is made, who is to say whether it was as a blind set or flat set function? Kinda like a double barrelled shotgun, huh!

[troymcdaniel]

If this work's it will show what alot of us have to deal with and why they use blind set's.

redirectingat.com/?id=593X1004&url=http%3A//s245.photobucket.com/albums/gg49/paydowncat/%3Faction%3Dview%26current%3Dminkvid.flv

[Zagman]

Only ONE person I saw on this thread said blind meant unaltered. Only one....

You are missing the point that MOST people do not consider a dug pocket set with no bait a blind set. Period.

Hell, a straight bridge wall with NO vegetation and such can be blocked or built up, "altered", but still a blind set.

Snaring taught me you block, alter, cut, trim, add vegetation to make it a better, blind set.

Cat trapping is the same.....block down an already known travelway and make them step in one place. Blind set.

When the original blind vs baited thing started last fall, you fought for 5 pages talking about blind sets. Then, you suddenly sprung it on the other side that your "blind" sets were often dug pockets with no bait.

We all thought you were talking about walking down a stream and finding places in the mink's path and, even with altering, putting the pan where he'd step anyhow on the hop or fly.....or swim.

Find the post.....it's all in there.

MZ

[NittanyLion]

49'er since I started using bait in about half of my pocket sets I have caught somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of my mink in the baited pockets. I always told myself I did not want to use bait so I wouldn't catch as many coon or other non-target critters. It takes me 4 days to get my line out and I do not bait until the whole line is out so about 20% of my check days no pockets are baited. It took a while for this to sink in but I am becoming a believer in using bait for mink. My next mission is to use many more bottom edge sets, and after I feel comfortable with that I want to try more dry land sets for mink. To me the learning curve never ends. I even caught some mink in the resting set Steve showed me.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Thanks NL.

One thing I wish I would have done over the years was to keep records.

The BE set is something I am going to play with some day as well if for no other reason than just because.