Blind Sets

[CoonDuke]

Steve,
In my opinion an unbaited pocket is not a blind set. The pocket/disturbance/fresh dirt is the attractor.

Would you consider an empty dirthole a blind set? Or Zaggers grass tuft set?

[trappnman]

CD- thats ok, its my and Jim Spencers opinion that it is.

I've tried many times, to make the debate BAITED vs UNBAITED, because thats what it really is- but in each case, the debate has been forced back to pocket vs blind-

is a depression a blind set? if so, whats the depth limit 1"? 2"? when does it become a pocket? At 3"?

point being, its ALWAYS beeen baited vs unbaited-

if you come up to an old groundhog or badger hole in the ground, and you set a trap no lure and bait- is that a blind set?

would be to me.

does zagger use lure? if so- then no. l

[CoonDuke]

I guess it is more personal opinion on the terminology than anything. For me, when I hear blind set I think trail set. Anytime an animal leaves it's intended path to investigate something, I really don't consider it a blind set anymore.

[Wright Brothers]

I'm like coonduke in that to me a blind set is putting trap where the animal is going to step, no attractor. No drawing attention. But no matter definitions, we make our own and thats whats cool about this game, no book tight rules.

Was just telling someone how I missed BKs posts and here he shows up. Glad to see ya. Had big ice last couple years and went to the phone wire to 110s and check with flash light jumper instead of chopping every day. You guys influence how we trap you know. And BE sets rock haha.

[coonhangman1]

Jul 22, 2009 6:46:09 GMT -6 trappnman said:

wonder if anyone caughht Jim Spencers comment elsewhere, something to the tune of " bait setters seem to fooget the main part of a baited pocket...." and goes on to say that the unbaited pocket is one of his favorite blind sets.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmn..............

Nick you let that slide? Without jumping all over him and quoting Gerald? LOL

I believe what Spencer said was:

The trouble with your bet, though, is there wouldn't be any way of telling what attracted the mink. If it's a pocket set, my gut feeling would be that the hole itself was what drew him in, not the fish in the bowl. I've caught a blue million mink in unbaited, unlured pockets. It's one of my favorite "blind" sets, matter of fact. All you pocket guys are so focused on the bait or lure you use that you lose sight of the main reason a hole set is attractive to a mink: because it's a dang hole!!!!

And here is what I said on my first reply on the same post in regards to the advantages of pockets.

Fresh dug hole, which is attractive to most all furbearers we trap. It's been said you could catch a lot of critters on just a fresh dug hole, well that's one thing a baited pocket has to offer too.

Both are direct quotes.

Not sure why you would suggest I would "jump all over" him with something we agree on.

As far as him using unbaited pockets? Cool, works for him, good for him. I dont and won't.

[BK]

I drove over to a Wisc. convention some years back to catch Ken Smyth's demo.
With some time to kill I took in Spencer's mink demo,......I made it to the part where he said mink don't like to get their feet wet.
I left then, I was afraid I might learn some of what he had to say.

Speaking of demos. I saw one Kermit Stearns put on at a NTA convention. He had slides from his line, it was a great demo. and I learned a lot.

How true Steve, we can only kill them once.

[trappnman]

How true Steve, we can only kill them once.

exactly!

I guess I took it as a given, that any good blind setter used both natural and made pockets, tunnels, etc-

and again, I've tried to make the distinction of baited vs not.

so- since I use 100+ pockets a year, does that make me a pocket setter and not a blind setter? if so, thats ok- I catch mink either way..........

and so will you.

[Computerhater]

Yep, can only kill them once but how long that takes is the debait. ( pun intended ). Fossil 2 has a very good post on the latest thread over on Trapperman as to why he chooses baited pockets. Makes a lot of sense.

Now if every mink had a one track mind and ran or swam where we hoped he would EVERY time then there really wouldn't be much to debait or debate.

Blind sets are super great sets I use them a lot but ...... and I like bottom edge sets where I can find them but....

Steve in the previous thread you seemed to take some things that were posted as a discredit to your mink trapping skills. I don't think anyone was downplaying your skills as a blind setter I think they were just suggesting that you might be able to catch those same mink quicker using more baited pocket sets.

In PA when we all went out on Nittany Lion's line we all pointed out different places that we individually might set and we all pointed out locations that we all agreed were no brainers. We all would have set certain ones. You certainly had as much blind setting expertise as anyone from what I observed.

But, and this is a big But, you fell for the bait and grabbed that hot wire. NL used eye appeal ( the hot wire ) and baited you with the line, "It's never on." LOL I still chuckle when I think of that because I got nailed the same way squirrel hunting several years ago. My hunting buddy said the same thing. "My uncle never has it on."


Randy

[NittanyLion]

I don't think that fence has been "on" since, maybe the old farmer set that trap.

BK, it is good to see you posting, I've been taking care of your uncle's farm. Are you going to the NTA?

[trappnman]

Randy- I understand your point-

I use baited pockets now, and catch mink every year at baited pockets, and have used many more at various times- my honest opinion is that I did no better (or worse) on them during most of the season. If I truely saw any difference either way, I'd go that way 100%. but as I said, I use tons of pockets, from small depressions ot rock caves.

the thing comes up as to which is quicker- and I think thats a moot point. I don't believe, based 100% only on my streams here and by no means would this apply to anyone elses streams- that those first couple weeks of season have even a start to the mink working them on it- I start a full month after everyone else- and as a warden told me- "traps under every bridge" early- yet I still take 80-100 mink year in and year out trapping that worn out water.

but after that, with lots of snow and ice- I find bait, and to me rat and mink carcasses are as good as anything, to shine.

I can now do that, because the few coon moving, go to the obvious baited sets first if out at all, but at below zero, I get a definite bump in baited- when it warms up so coon moving more, I toss the carcasses away from sets if any left

[thorsmightyhammer]

Long time no see bk.

[thorsmightyhammer]

The arguement for me has never been about baited versus unbaited.

If we used spencer's logic of "its a dang hole" than that means that mink investigate every dang hole and every naturally occuring dang hole should be as productive as one we dig.

And for me its not about killing an animal "once" its about killing as many as possible in my limited time frame I give myself to trap.

[collins]

I'm no mink trapper, but why would you dig a pocket set and not bait it?

[trappnman]

mink don't investigate every darn hole- but they DO investigates holes that are where they expect them to be- thats blind setting 101.

I'be be courious steven- when I set 100 plus baited sets vs the same in unbaited over a few seasons, I saw no overall difference. How does that compare with your results?

Jim Spencer says a lot of his blind sets are holes, and even makes the comment, that holes probably would be as attractvie w or w/o bait- a thought I share.

Any good blind set mink trapper, makes use of lots of natural crooks, crannys and holes and makes additions as well. Now if, that isn't yourr definition, then its not- I don't care-

MY arguement, has ALWAYS been baited vs unbaited-

as far as "once"- you can kill each mink only once-

If you know your baited sets will take them faster for you than unbaited, I believe you 100%.

I'd wager thats true for most bait trappers.

[trappnman]

why not bait it?

several reasons- #1 for me is reducing coon catches at some sets, while increasing them at neighboring sets- almost 100% of my locations, have both baited and unbaited sets

other reasons are lots easier to run and maintain a long line-

if one could run a canine line, and have the knowledge to take as many with bait, lure, urine as without- wouldn't many choose without- less mess, fuss, expense and bother.

making sets w/o bait, is not a deterrent to catching large numbers of mink-

I use bait and lure when I think I need it, not just to use it. But I guess I'm no longer a blind setter, I'm catagory #3- a unbaited pocket setter cause 99.999% of my mink sets, when I really think about it- involve some sort of depression or pocket.

but the key- and if any reading this haven't been scared off by the naysayers on using unbaited sets (blind as those that use them call them) still wish to increase their blind setting skills- is to understand WHY a mink is at that area, and set accordingly. And in 99% of the cases (I use that figure to show that those travelling w/o hunting are, in MNSHO, so rare as to not count overall) that mink is hunting- and put your set into that hunting loop. Give him what he wants to see, where he wants to see it.

The bottom line when bait trappers get into a corner, is that they catch more coon. And yes, thats 100% true. And I'M CATCHING THOSE SAME COON- in my baited sets at thosel ocations.

Not too hard to take most coon, pre warmup in the spring, with the obvious set locations- a baited trap set at the bottom of a sloping bank, a shelf- will 99 out of a 100, take the coon before a unbaited set will on the vertical bank 30 feet away.

So by setting for coon at the baited sets, I miss most mink, and take the coon- and my blind sets take the mink. Works out rather well for the most part.

Winter coon, at least here in my area, are not hungry coon, and its easy to see by their reactions to bait and lure. But mid Feb or thereabouts, they turn on in looking for food, and the system breaks down, and coon are as apt to be caught in a blind set as any set- they are everywhere and into everything, looking for food. Then its 24hr check time and/or pull parts of the line.

In reality, my system that I worked out, that does what I want and need it to do for those cold months of the year- dec to feb- is logically the way to go, based on the number of mink, rats and coon available to harvest.

[coonhangman1]

Jul 24, 2009 8:33:17 GMT -6 @collins said:

I'm no mink trapper, but why would you dig a pocket set and not bait it?

I'm curious about that too?

Especially with all the advantages bait offers to mink.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Careful nick you dont have any experience!

[coonhangman1]

Jul 24, 2009 9:09:21 GMT -6 trappnman said:

making sets w/o bait, is not a deterrent to catching large numbers of mink

What do you consider large numbers of mink?

80 to 100??

[coonhangman1]

I'm just saying, I've just read time and time again that 100 mink a week is what real numbers men minkers in Iowa/Minnesota are catching. A profitable endeavor with regards to the coon and muskrat caught along with mink. Granted, they're the baited set users, the run & gun, the workers. Guys I listen to when they talk, as they walk the walk, so to speak.

Edit for clarification:

Alll I was saying is that, I'll listen to those guys because that's what I strive to be. To be an open water mink trapper, Not a December thru February mink trapper.

[trappnman]

I think you read what you want to- don't you?

You DO understand, that the whole state of MN, isn't the same?

if not, get a map and check it out.

Now- have you read what Gerald has said many times, including here on this forum, concerning the differences in MY country and his? On the mink populations here and there?

And do you understand WHEN I am trapping mink>

cause it seems like to me, that the above are only part of many things that you do not understand.

you know something funny? not one of those big numbers mink trappers, comes down here to trap mink. All over the rest of the state, but not here.

Just like fox trappers in PA don't go to the far NW corner and run their lines.

you know anyone that thinks he can take more mink here during dec and jan? if so- introduce me? I'd like to shake his hand and I'll sit down and listen- cause thats real experience- and if he can better me, I'd like to learn how.