Blind Sets

[Zagman]

If a freshly dug hole is as equally attractive to a mink as that same hole with bait in it, wouldn't that apply to the raccoons that you are trying to avoid as well?

In other words, most people probably avoid coon with true mink blind sets in tight little places (well, the definition I believe MOST trappers call a blind set.....a trap placed in such a way that it catches the animal on the move, unawares, on the hop....no attractants......just on the fly).

So, a hole dug would defeat that purpose, would it not?

Why avoid coon at all in your region? Heck, in any region except maybe the deep deep south. Even at today's crappy prices, the coons are worth more than the mink.

If each location has both baited sets (coon and mink targeted) and blind (mink only) then you can't check one of the sets every three days and the others on a 24 hour check, that would not make sense either. So, why avoid the coon?

MZ

[Nightwish (Catpaw)]

In this day and age...any trapper...full time or part time....needs to take EVERYTHING. Coon, mink and 'rats are all right there for the taking..and not too far away in fur price. So, one should take all...

I dont fool with possums or skunks on my foxline....but there arent worth what a fox or coon is....

[trappnman]

If a freshly dug hole is as equally attractive to a mink as that same hole with bait in it, wouldn't that apply to the raccoons that you are trying to avoid as well?

mark- I am talking dec-jan weather so a fresh dug pocket loses freshness in minutes. secondly, these pockets are usually under something, not visible to coon for the most part. lastly, the numbers of coon per location, are low (after all, its dec-jan).

the pocket being fresh dug isn't really a goal or an attractant, most of these pockets are present when I get there, many others are hand imprint depressions.

when coon really move and are hungry, as stated in a previous post, the system falls down.

In other words, most people probably avoid coon with true mink blind sets in tight little places (well, the definition I believe MOST trappers call a blind set.....a trap places in such a way that it catches the animal on the move, unawares, on the hop....no attractants......just on the fly).

MOST trappers? you mean most internet non blind set trappers? Jim Spencer states the opposite- as do I and as do all the blind setters I know personally. Even an old Bob Glisvek article calls them blind pockets. If you were a blind set man, you would take it as a given concenring natural and man made pockets, tunnels, cutouts, etc.

you take a spade and cut a chunk of sod off a bank, put in a trap- blind or not?

put a rock over that- blind or not?

now Im told a 3 inch depression in a bank doesn't count as blind? ok- whatever- thats past semantics let focus on unbaited or baited because, as I've tried and triue and tried ot no advail, is what the debate SHOULD be,

So, a hole dug would defeat that purpose, would it not?

no mark, it would not. I ask you to please reread what I've said

Why avoid coon at all in your region? Heck, in any region except maybe the deep deep south. Even at today's crappy prices, the coons are worth more than the mink.

First of all- why do you come to the conclustion I'm avoiding harvesting coon?

In no way am I doing that- I'll take every coon I can get. What I am doing, is making spieces specific sets. I bleive oyu catch more coon coon trapping, and more mink mink trapping- for example, my pockets are made for coon- mink are incidentals, and yes, I do take some in them each year- but pocket shape and trpaplacement, eliminate a lot of mink-

Quite frankly I doubt if there is anyone in MN, catching more coon than me during dec, jan and feb. And again, no brag- just its a mind numbing hard game to winter trap coon, and few do it- but take them steady and for example in 2008, I trapped almost 150 coon in jan alone.

I want all the coon I can, And I put in lot of time- as evidenced by those pictures of mehauling up coon through ice and snow- doing just that.

But to harvest all the coon I can, mean that every set needs to be baited to do so?

Does having 4 baited coon sets ability to catch coon, diminish because I add a few blind sets to take mink, giving me more chance of having operating sets when the mink does come by?

or do those 4 sets cover that location, and the blind just bonus on rats/mink?

Its hard ot find good drowning spots- I often have 275-300 mink/coon sets out- I cannot put all them on drowning rigss, for a vairity of reasons, and the reasons don't matter to anyone, but me.

If each location has both baited sets (coon and mink targeted) and blind (mink only) then you can't check one of the sets every three days and the others on a 24 hour check, that would not make sense either. So, why avoid the coon?

the coon sets are set up to be capable of drowning the intended target as close to 100% as I can get.

The mink/rat sets are set up to be capable of drowning the intended targets as close to 100% as I can get. These sets are also capable, because they go into water 12-18" deep, of drowning incidentals, but not at a rate I accept FOR ME.

because of this, all sets are then legal for an extended check.

On sets NOT capable of drwoning the intended target, I check every day- a small ocal route in shallow water-

[castorgland]

My defintion of a blind set is.

Setting a trap where the trapper has not altered said set location in anyway.. A hole you dig into the bank and set a trap in front of is not a TRUE blind set in my opinion..

When you set a trap between a natural obstruction the mink works across, between or thru, thats a blind set..

[thorsmightyhammer]

You DO understand, that the whole state of MN, isn't the same?

I understand and I dont need a map. i've been most everywhere but the far north east.

I also understand when I buy a license its good for the "whole" state.

When I trap beaver seriously, where I park my snowmobile its 70 miles one way from the house.

Where would you be if you drove 70 miles one way to get started.

Last year when I tried for a marten a tank of gas in the subaru wouldnt get me through the day. Albeit it only has a fourteen gallon tank but I was putting 350 miles or so.

I rode nick a little because I think trapping as I see it is more of an science than an art. Production line 100 percent of the way once you have the basic concepts figured out.

I also dont think that years of experience is the trump card.

As an aside I have caught many mink with an unbaited pocket. Sure it works but I believe in bait.

I think that like the rest of the weasel family mink are gluttons. And bait preys on that gluttony.

[trappnman]

so if you cut that depression and let the sod roll into the water its no longer a blind set?

what type of set is it?

[castorgland]

No, in my mind you've alterd the location and made an attraction by making that disturbance, also you have made a visual attraction.. Also you the the trapper have forced him there artifically, not naturaly.. Just my opinion...

And whats the sense of cutting the sod? If you can do that why not throw in a pocket??? Make your chances even better??

[trappnman]

so if ma nature rolled that sod there- a very natural occurrance on many creeks here its a blind set- but if I do it, its not?

if 2 rocks for a passage, and the last trapper before me left them, so to me its "unaltered" to me its a blind set, but wasn't for him?

and if the last flood left them its not?

I can see, according to that narrow definition, how some can say blind sets underproduce- 99% of the sets a blind setter utilizes, would not be included as a blind set-

so fine and dandy- make it baited vs unbaited, which is what it aways was, and the lines are clear and marked-

by that definition, moving one stone or twig on a trail set, scooping out a shelf on a muskrat hole makes it altered and not a blind set.

What you gain by wanting a defintion that narrow, I don't get- esp, when the arguement STILL lies in baited or not.

[castorgland]

Im just giving MY defintion of what a true blind set is... A true dyed and wool blind setter can pickout the perfect spots on a waterway and not have to alter them to fit his needs.. Thats a blind setter.. Wether he shoves a trap in a tube or between two rocks or whatever.. Thats an art, and a lil luck.. I use a few blind sets also in spots I know I am gonna connect..

But if a guy traps for money he's upping his odds with bait.. And I can make some sort of pocket on any waterway therfore upping my odds at a catch.. And to make money I need to take every critter, coon, mink, rats, or otter..

[trappnman]

so steven- you do understand the rest of the "whole" state is frozen- I could put on a million miles a day going all over MN, and not set many more traps than I do now?

I CHOOSE to trap then- I love being out when everyone else is sitting in front of the tube and so do you.

I've battled that rush to freeze on the big marshes and have no desire to play that game again when I can trap coon and canines during same time perod- THEN trap coon and rats and mink- A perfect example of having my cake and Edith too..........

If mink go way up in price- you can bet I'll be hitting them opener like anyone else- but with no one getting rich on mink over last 15 years, I'm content with my 80-100 winter mink, most males- and my incidentals make me smile- I averaged more on upland coon and canines- even past year- 30-40% of my mink prices at the end

the singular truth is this- Gerald alluded to it, as I did- let the habitat and conditions dictate the set- with same habitat- miles of straight ditches, overgrown grasses, etc- or winding boggy rivers- pockets- obvious poickets, plenty of smells to attract mink by scent as well as vision- are the way to go. And if early on water, with the family groups, by all means target all the coon you want- I did and am thinking I will this year- and again, bait and pockets is the way to go.

but rocky hill streams? through pastures and open woods? narorw and very distintive i nthe varied habitat?

unless you have those areas, you simply cannot understand, that the pinpoints are more obvious, more tightly located- all sections not the same for sure, all bridges far from decent setting areas- experience pays off in knowing where that mink is and where to put the trap-

Its not rocket sicence- but apparently not a common method for many. But not being common, doesn't make it, in the right conditions, any less fully effective as any baited pockets.

I can say this, even though experience seems to be ignored, because when I went part time than full time- I tried all the methods- some worked, some didn't, the best of many worked the same-

and don't forget this- there aer more mink caught on baited pockets, than are caught in unbaited blind sets, for 2 reasons- more inexperienced trappers use them (and really, no disrespect to anyone just stating a given) and more baited sets are made.

More coyotes are probably caught in Dukes by far, than Jakes traps. Is my conclusion dukes are better?

I wanted to learn how to fly fish well- I did it by ONLY taking the flyrod fisihng, and being forced to fish with it-

I think blind setting is a similar example- people set a few, but aren't versed in them, also set baited pockets, catch more in pockets, make less blind, catch more in baited and so on........

Guys like nick, at the cusp of their minker carrier, I offer this advice- set your pcokets, but don't ignore the unbaited set- you can take a lot of mink.........quietly so to speak.......with them. Its an art, and a dying art-

[trappnman]

and castor, Im giving you the definition myself and the two generations of mink trappers that preceded me in the Winona marshes used- its a term I grew up with

but each to their own-

and yes, I agree, it is an art-

[castorgland]

I agree very much so. It is an art..

[kelly]

Thank you, Steve and all others who have participated! Have enjoyed it immensely and learned a lot.

One comment I'd like to make after reading most of the "old time" trapping books on mink from authors like Herb Lenon, E J Dailey, F Q Bunch, J K Conner, Don Garbow, Bill Hoffman, Johnny Thorpe, O L Butcher, and Bill Nelson, etc. the "blind sets" these men describe are far and few in between that would be totally 100% "natural non-altered by the trapper". Everyone one of them describe "shaving the bank" or "covering the spring seep" or "digging a hole into the spring seep" or "building a tunnel from rocks" or "digging a tunnel through dirt/sod" or "creating a shelf" as "blind sets". Many of these same authors state that a good blind set man can "make" a blind set where they want one. So I prefer the terminology that Steve uses, baited vs non-baited/non-lured.

I totally understand and can relate to the way Steve addresses his situation by making baited sets specifically for coon in those places where he can drown the coon and then making non-baited/non-lured sets for mink/rats under cover to avoid the coon at these locations. If I go 1 hour to the North of my house there are trout streams in the hills with rocky bottoms just like Steve has and 1-3 hours to the Northwest and West I have lots of ditch type streams with mud bottoms and overhanging grass-few trees. Then 2-4 hours Southwest there are hilly timbered streams with sandy bottoms and few rocks. All 3 types of habitat that require different approaches. Now add in the fact that here in Iowa we have to "immediately drown the animal" in order to have extended checks.

In all 3 types of habitat I've described the water depth varies but those 2 foot deep or deeper holes can be far and few in between. The vast majority is 4-12" deep. Yes, deep enough to drown rats and mink but not coon. At least not "immediately" and most times not at all. So we've had guys like Bud Hall and his protege's who hated catching coon and messing up their "great minks sets". Thus he avoided those places where coon catches were likely yet he still caught 200+ mink annually with less than 50 coon with his system. With today's prices no one can afford to avoid coon but many of us that want to utilize "extended checks" need to avoid coon or catch them where the trapper needs to "immediately drown". So we will use baited sets for the coon where we can drown them.

Most all experienced trappers know that trap placement is critical. Ideal trap placement for coon is not ideal for mink or rats and vice versa when one takes into account the "capable of drowning" or in case of Iowa "immediately drown" in order to have extended checks. So in order to still trap at those locations that do not afford deep enough water one needs a different approach to still catch mink/rats, thus all of my interest in learning "non-baited/non-lured sets" to avoid catching coon in them. Rather catch the coon where we want them and still use the "baited sets" as attraction for the "non-baited/non-lured sets" where we will catch the mink/rats.

[blackhammer]

Good post Kelly.

[trappnman]

Kelly- you nailed it in words far better than mine- thank you

[makete]

Kelly.

[CoonDuke]

All I can say is that if a man catches 100% of his mink in empty pockets, and he says that he catches all of his mink in blind sets, I would consider that is a bit of "false advertisement." Same as I would not consider a trapper who catches mink in underwater muskrat holes an expert "blind setter."

[blackhammer]

Set trap,catch mink.If someone catches numbers of mink in underwater rat dens it doesn't mean less than if he caught them in pockets.Success is the the only factor that really matters.How means less than how many.

[CoonDuke]

You are correct...success is success.

But, I wouldn't want to take lessons on under ice beaver from a man who traps in Mississippi. Or river trapping muskrats from a man who traps marshes. Or fox snaring lessons from a guy who makes his catch with foot traps.

I ride with Nittany Lion almost every year for a day and have seen a lot of mink caught in empty pockets...doubles 5 feet apart in empty pockets. It is a great way of taking mink...I just don't consider it a blind set.

[blackhammer]

You do halve to sort out the information you receive and decide who to listen to and what is bs. .