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Post by trappnman on Aug 9, 2021 7:10:53 GMT -6
"Well they were in between wooded areas while in the crops, they already were hunting them and had them as part of their base territory and on their travel-ways! There is no "lets all move to the brush, there is no more corn" because they were already there in the brush as part of their territorial cycle! "
Kinda. if I get into the real flat areas around me, coyotes are rare because of what you implied- no off season habitat to speak of. and I found that out real quick. While it might be a perfect location insofar as a big dairy, silage piles, compost pile- its not worth setting up simply because there is nothing there for habitat beyond the corn.
So even if Im on a flat farm there HAS to be habitat somewhere around, and here we are talking not woods per se- but coulees and hills that DO have woods- otherwise- its farmed.
So- the adults for sure know the score- concentrate in the coulees and hills during post harvest and winter and then spread out for denning. And where do many of these dens occur? Right dab smack in the middle of planted corn and bean fields. I've seen it multiple times.
We have a unique feature to our crops here and that is strip farming was perfected in this area, and still persists to this day. we have rolling hill fields, with terraces and a myriad of connecting waterways (that often have little wet spots, brush growths etc) which provide good pup rearing habitat. and about the time the pups are weaned, 99% of those waterways are cut for hay - opening up a highway map of travel lanes (that all would show a track or two over time but my lord the traps one needed to set (and once upon a time I did just that). Coyote scat during milk stage of corn looks like coon scat from a corn field. So its habitat, and food. Plus the mice, bunnies, etc in the corn.
Those YOY coyotes have no concept of extended range, or wintering grounds. They learn, or die- but they don't know it when on one day all their habitat is gone overnight- literally going from standing corn, to gone, to plowed in a matter of a few days at most. I've many times seen a corn field standing, next day its plowed ground.
now- those YOY coyotes, and remember I mentioned that earlier the 1 and 2 seemed to be a majority (or a singleton old male) are panicked.
Those YOY don't have a clue- the very places they were hunting and catching voles (#1 food here) and living the good life, disappeared. You bet they are confused......
so its no more corn..... and its sweet jesus what is happening.......
As far as fill in. When I remarked that an area of mine seemed to be knocked down over the years, it was explained like this: By setting traps in concentration, year after year, and expanding that concentration- I was in effect ADC trapping.
Think of my area as a circle- when no one was killing coyotes outside that circle, if good habitat it would soon fill in. but by trapping further expanding circles- I was taking the bulk of those able to fill in- now the fill in had to occur in 2 stages- the 2nd circle first, then mine. Now expand that to another circle, or add another trapper of trappers ete- there are more stages to fill along the way.
So what I have now, with my trapping 2 fairly small counties over 30 years, and add in the other hunters, trappers, farmers.....the cream of the population is gone- and not like out west where there is habitat never seen except by cows and coyotes- here, there are few hidden spots- I hit them in the fields, the hunters hunt the coulees and hills with or without dogs during the winter.
So, imo, I have a fairly stable (over my entire trapping territory) population, but few real concentration points. I probably could eliminate all but 20 or so locations, and catch 80% of the coyotes I do now. but...always, and it happens multiple places every year- a 1 or 2 or 0 location the previous year, has a family group still together and I can pop a bunch.
Here is an example- farmer said he didn't want me trapping his place, cause of the neighbors dogs (I had trapped it for years w/o catching a dog but there you go) but said I could trap the son's place next door. Went in, didn't see much..set up night 1 a double, night 2 a double and then 3 singletons in a week. Good lord- this WAS the spot.
Its been 10 years or more- I catch 2 to 3 like clockwork every year, nothing likke the 7- one of my come back locations so I usualy catch 1 or 2 earlty, then the same late plus always a few fox. so- that 7...mom and kids.
and I have another I've trapped since the beginning- always a couple, but every few years is 5,6,or 7 cause I was there at the right time.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 8, 2021 14:05:54 GMT -6
Here is my take-
Its not unusual that family groups change areas after the true denning part of the cycle is complete. Denning areas aren't always the final living areas.
I think that by fall, indeed most likely about this time of year- the pups are going out more on their own. They are finding food source,s either taught or own their own. Now, instead of a pair of, hunting that area to feed the pups, the pups are now darn near full size, and have increasing food needs, thus they spread out from that concentrated area.
If we were to trap a month or two earlier, those concentrations are still there- now, the concentrations aren't but the coyotes are still "there". Well, maybe not there, but around.
Life is easy.
Now- you have crop harvest and unless in true row crop country, you can't imagine how this changes the landscape here. What was hundreds of acres of prime habitat, habitat those coyotes grew up in- is gone. Overnight.
So now those YOY scatter even more.
To me- for the most part, I do feel my one and 2 coyote spots is a result of that. One thing about reduced habitat, is it gives increased pinpointing of spots for those 1 or 2.
But- be in the right spot- because there still will be, and I'll believe this to my dying day- attraction points that DO not perhaps fill in quick (although the real good ones do) but appeal to multiple coyotes/groups. I have one little series of locations- 8 traps in 4 places on I'd guess 4 connected farms. with beef on 2 sides, dairy on 1, and 2 more beef places within a mile of so. I think, over a 10 day to 2 week period, I caught 16 coyotes there. and thats typical. My most consistent locations and have been for 30 years. Down the road a few miles, is a pair of 3 locations- close to 2 other dairies. In 3 set ups there- caught 8. and that repeats every year, even with a major habitat change.
So the coyotes are still there...I just have to be better at finding "there".
Back to dispersal. I think thats a true high population thing ie fox.
Never seen it here to my knowledge. Its just a move on over thing.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 6, 2021 7:54:10 GMT -6
That is one good thing- had a bunch of land come out of CRP several years ago, but over last several years, I'm seeing more older farmers putting some of their marginal land back into the program which we need- bunny, bird populations have tumbled here in last decade
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Post by trappnman on Aug 6, 2021 7:52:05 GMT -6
to be clear- I'm not advocating see a track, set it. Note- the coyotes are coming in night 1 or 2- so I'm stil lsetting their personal core area/stall out points.
Just no fill.
Yet- I have 3 locations that are close to home, and overlap on my 1st and 3rd lines. Neither are real hotspots, but both give me coyotes and fox. All three are near dairies, but more typical travel areas.
So on these 3 locations, I leave all but the trap, and rest later. all three give me coyotes, usually singular, on both set up periods.
Those are see a track set up locations for sure.....but they are the exception for me not the norm
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Post by trappnman on Aug 5, 2021 7:00:31 GMT -6
This past season, and i'd have to recalculate, I figured out the success rate of every location- those that gave me zero, those that gave me 1, and those that gave me 2, and those that gave me 3+.
I figured it out not so much as a fact on my % of locations that produced (I could easily eliminate some locations, and have 100% location success) but more for S & G.
so for last year:
0 coyote 19% 1 coyote 36% 2 coyotes 23% 3) coyotes 22%
Overall 81% of my locations last season, caught at least 1 coyote during the 6 to 8 days they were set.
Some of the 0 locations were on same overall farms as 3) locations and in past the 0 was the producer, the multiple ran dry, so worth setting up both.
What jumped out at me, was that on 55% of my locations, I caught 1 or zero coyotes.
On 45% of my locations, I caught multiples.
and on most of those 1 coyote locations- it was coyote 1st night, almost always a youngster (which led me to think oh boy here comes mom and siblings) and then nothing.
THAT imo is the result of setting on real or imaginary singular tracks. 1 coyote there, I got him, and thats all she wrote.
It makes me wonder about the density of coyotes (I have yet to see any study here that even puts a clue in it, those dnr scent station tablets are worthless in my opinion for an accurate count, as is the spacing of such stations.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 5, 2021 6:41:52 GMT -6
I can remember as a young kid, driving with my dad...and we would pasass a little shopping center, etc and he would remark he used to hunt ducks there, etc....and I didn't have a clue what he wsa talking about.
But boy do I see it now. When I first went out east to PA, I was shocked at how many farms, were no longer farms in the sense of having animals, traditional farms. Fences were gone, fields were planted right up to the barns.
And over the years, I see it happening here. Too many small farmers are retiring, and while maybe not selling the farm, renting it out to either cash croppers, or thankfully in many cases raising heifers for big dairies.
So 2 things happening.....the number of farms with cows is decreasing, and instead of the traditional rotation of oats/hay, beans and corn...is now a pattern of beans one year and then corn, or corn every year, and that effects me in 2 ways.....lack of grass, and lack of access cause 1 crop farms don't need access roads like mixed crop farmers do.
and every little 10 acres of overgrown old homesteads that were great locations, now has a million dollar house sitting on it.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 2, 2021 7:05:29 GMT -6
That's a question with a couple of different angles for me.
Yes and no. Its hard to put in a flat set in some places, but it can be done. For example a grass field. If it's continuous sod, then you have two choices in my mind.....spend time finding a spot that is still on location but lends itself to a blended set... or spend a lot of time making the set in sod. I've done both.
if Im talking hayfields, there are always what I call "dust circles" that lend themselves to a walkthrough type flat set. I made one in my video. That set used to be my stock in trade, esp when I was using 1.75 traps as the set lent itself to it quite well.
And for sure there are locations that scream out for a flat set- not so much because I think it will produce better, but because its so easy to make- here, time is on the side of a flat set . Best example of this is old manure piles, unused field road edges, etc.
To the 2nd part of the question, does it matter which set is put into a location insofar as production success.
I say this with a caveat....... once he is aware of it, imo no.
let me pause a minute. Definition of a flat set comes into play. To me, a flat set has no visual at the trap...its all done with the lure or positioning. visuals at the set, yes. But at the trap, no. I understand this is a personal thing, but it puts the above in context perhaps.
So imo, a flat set unless almost a trail set (meaning pretty much under his feet) will take time for the coyote to become aware of the set.
( a tangent: we talked about lure success rates, trap nights, etc....tp me the #1 thing I am concerned about, is awareness of the set. That is, what percentage of coyotes that are aware of my set work it, and how many are caught. The one (and ONLY) good thing about snow, its such a cruel teacher)
So in a way, location does play a part, but only, again imo, in how that location would fare in awareness %.
So why don't I use them? Not really sure. Just kinda went away from them I guess when I finally learned how to catch them in dirtholes besides just a stepdown. And maybe its going to bigger traps. And maybe its the research showing how the visuals of a hole, etc elicit a quicker response.
So my evolution on sets, went from fox type dirtholes, to almost 100% stepdowns, then 100% flat sets, then a mix and now 100% dirtholes.
I've had little to no success with post sets after trying all the secret tricks from those that promote the set, and have caught some in blind trail sets but haven't made one for years.
Also, I do not believe in making multiple type sets at a location as SOP. Whatever set works best for you, use it.
I also do not subscribe to the set a fresh trap after coyote catches. I've mentioned before that when we test something, we test it all season. We did it sporadically years ago, but no pattern so no data. A few years back, we decided to test it again for 2 years. Our method was if the traps at the location had all caught a coyote, we would move a short distance away, and put in a fresh one. If a trap had just incidentals and the rest coyotes, we didn't set fresh- only when all had held a coyote.
We found definitively, for us, that setting a fresh trap was a waste of time and resources- that almost to a coyote any additional catches were in a previous remake. I think the reason was that in so many of our locations, there are limited spots to actually put a trap because of farming practices during harvest- so the 1st traps set were in the best locations. So setting a fresh trap might work well for some, not for us.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 1, 2021 7:06:47 GMT -6
a comment on the bent triggers- A friend many years ago, told me that he had far less of that, if he set the trap so that the dog was facing the direction of the approach ie about 6 oclock.
That way the dog was at the bottom when a coyote was caught, and thus wouldn't be in the line of fire when a coyote chewed on the trap. And I found that to be very true, when I still used dog on, and started setting it a 6 rather than 3 or 9- my bent dogs dropped way down to almost non existent.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 1, 2021 6:49:59 GMT -6
I got a chance yesterday at the MTA, to attend some demos. As a dealer, it was hard to take time away to watch anyone elses demo so only took time if it was someone I really wanted to see.
I watched 2 other coyote demos besides mine- both by good coyote trappers.
Let me digress a bit- back when I was a pup, and was getting into the Fd trial game, someone told me this " ask advice from every good houndsman you know. You will find, 90% of what they say is the same. 10% will be contradictory, etc. Take the 90%- and then experiment with the 10"
I don't challenge anyone doing a demo- hate it when it happened to me- but I do ask questions. If I differ, I might go up afterwards and discuss it. As Chris McAllister says " if it works for you, you are doing it right." And when someone tells me at a demo Im wrong, they do it that way, thats exactly what I tell them and move on-
including me (no humility for me lol), 3 major coyote demos that day. We agreed on almost everything- with quite notable exceptions.
one, was very much a see a track, set on it. He will be back is his thought. And he catches a lot of coyotes.
also, he never had success in badger remakes, and I absolutely love badge remakes- sure fire sets for me.
so I mentioned it- and it turns out I always make my remake almost a lure free walkthrough....
and he was just remaking dirtholes.
And both of us love beans- duff sets- but he always uses it as more of flat set in that there is no dirthole, instead he rakes a pile, then makes a point coming off it facing the fenceline, etc. whereas I always make it a concave backing for a dirthole. So we both learned a different aspect of the set.
Another, again a man who catches a lot of coyotes in several states, gave a demo where I was nodding my head throughout- singular set type, mindset, He liked more of a trench set overall, and I like more of a dished dirthole, importance of visual etcs.
but...and I have to say I was somewhat flabbergasted.... He uses no urine, he uses no lure- just a very small amount of bait.
I thought how can we be so close on everything- and that similarity deepened in a post demo conversation?
So- that was the how----
As seldom says- what was the why?
His thought was after the visuals do their job (dirt pile, bones) He wanted the coyote to come into his set, not jacked up. Thus the subtle odors.
and myself- I am the polar opposite in that I throw all the bells and whistles at it- 2 lures, commercial and natural bait, plus copious urine use.
(and yes as I say at the demos, I know a coyote can smell minute amounts of scent- but my goal isn't to make him aware, but make him unable to resist)
I want the coyote jacked up to a degree- because if on the right location- any initial neophobic behavior elicited by the bone, the messy dirthole and all that odor doesn't last long. His innate curiosity will overcome his initial behavior.
I have though attended demos, and a couple by VERY famous people, that left me wondering if they really have a clue, and aren't just trapping high population areas where coyotes come easy. for example when I was in Dodge City trapping, had a stockyard just out of town as 1st stop, and it didn't take much knowledge to take coyotes there.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 30, 2021 7:37:41 GMT -6
So many myths that are out there. The one that slays me is you can't catch a coyote on a backing he can't see over.
Or you need kneeling cloths etc
Sure makes oyu wonder about credibility.....
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Urine
Jul 28, 2021 11:38:43 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Jul 28, 2021 11:38:43 GMT -6
basically meat fed, with a system that keeps debris and contaminants from getting in the urine as its collected.
the major dealers but from good sources, so agree, if uncut and stored properly, one urine is as good as the other. Meat fed they say gives it a darker, more pungent odor and I have no reason to doubt it does.
I would guess the big boys buy their urine from multiple place, s be hard to think of one operation being able to collect that much on a yearly basis. I agree- didn't seem much if any difference when I bought direct, or when I bought from Cumberlands, Gerald, etc.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 28, 2021 6:34:56 GMT -6
How many ways to skin a cat......
I never had much success with small, more subtle type dirtholes- indeed, it was one reason I went to flat sets. I remember 1 discussion with Bob and others, where I strongly argued that MY coyotes wouldn't work dirtholes, that I needed flat sets. The stepdown changed that- and I really only started using that after seeing a Leggetts demo and I started making it in what I thought were more fox locations- and after a few years, thought man, for the few I make, I sure catch coyotes in them. The evolution of a trapper......
I've found for me, I have far more success going the non subtle route- using a mataxe to dig/ruff up a decent sized area around the trap- dirt and clods scattered. and lots of smells- 2 lures, 1 commercial bait, 1 gopher (new sets only) and often a call lure up high.
keep in mind that I want to run and gun as much as I can- as a friend once said new places, fresh faces.
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Urine
Jul 28, 2021 6:23:06 GMT -6
Post by trappnman on Jul 28, 2021 6:23:06 GMT -6
a note on the pee you mentioned Marty-
when I was in the lure business, I bought urine direct from many of the big guys, including his. Delivered at convention in dirty, dusty 5 gal pails. Lots of sediment in the bucket. Same with most when buying bulk. I saw no different in his, than in any that were selling meat fed urine- and at the price $32 a gal MY price for a 5 gal bucket..add in a bottle and label and I had about $34 per gal in it and then needed to mark it up. I saw nothing in looks, smell or results to justify that extra expense.
While I have not tested urine side by side, I have used and sold a lot of different makers urine- and frankly- as long as the smell and color is about the same, they all imo work the same.
Weak color, too much sediment, septic smell- deifferent story
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Post by trappnman on Jul 27, 2021 7:50:10 GMT -6
When I first went out to WY to trap on the Pathfinder, I think we drove around for an hour bewildered and only set 2 traps until we at least began to figure out how to put everything into perspective. Think of it like a big lake or river..all looks the same until you "look deeper".
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Post by trappnman on Jul 27, 2021 7:36:54 GMT -6
How interesting Marty- we both use your lures exclusively, yet my feelings on what to use, are quite different. Mild is a cuss word to me even in hot weather.
Regarding flat sets- thats interesting as well. Were you primarily a dirthole man, then changed over, and if so, how long ago was that?
I ask, because I went through something similar. I was using dirtholes, primarily stepdowns, but wanted to try flat sets and could never get the hang of it until reading Mirandas book, and then the following year talking to Odon in Nebraska. Tom basically copied his set with a few mods, but once I started using the walkthrough, I became enamored with flat sets to the point for several years, they were the only set I used.
And as I kept making them, I got sneakier and sneakier to the point where if I didn't catch a coyote, when pulling I often had to walk around before I could find my set. Subtle would be an understatement. Even my lure holes were invisible.
When I started coyote trapping here in the mid 80s, no coyote had seen a trap (all foothold traps around here in water pre coyote and a few of us not many running land footholds for coon) and the expansion was on and the populations were imo at the peak here.
And for those several years, my flat sets were working as well as my stepdowns did.
fast forward and coyotes were starting to get hunted and harassed here, and even a few trappers started showing up.
So a few things were occurring: the population was diminished at least some, and the coyotes were now getting harassed by people often just on GPs..
And most importantly: The coyotes that had the genetic traits to be caught (and we could debate those), are out of the gene pool.
Similar to bunnies and pheasants. A study in Nebraska on public hunting grounds, showed that over the years, the pheasants were genetically running to escape danger and not flying. simply because those that had the dominate trait of flushing, were being taken out of the gene pool and those few that had the trait to run, were now dominant.
Same with bunnies- some have the trait to be more nocturnal, so the ones that stay in the holes all day, tend to survive and when hunting such places for years, that becomes very noticeable- tons of tracks, but starts are rare vs jumping bunnies constantly with same amount of tracks in prior years.
Coyotes are the same. In any case, I digress but the point goes to why I gave up flatsets.
I was starting to see 2 things- Catching fewer coyotes, and I was starting to get digging at my flat sets (my invisible ones). I couldn't figure out why, because previously it hadn't been a problem. Talking to Wiley one day, he said its probably because they can't see any scent point, so they exploratory dig trying to pinpoint it. Made sense.
So I started making my flat sets with a open wobble holes, but still wasn't catching the numbers, so went back to using a mix of flat sets and stepdowns- often 1 each at a location.
And I started to find a couple of things to be occurring- I was catching coyotes quicker at a location with the visual of the stepdown (which was now evolving into more of a dished stepdown somewhat like I use today) and far more than randomly the coyote was in the stepdown. Logic tells me his first awareness of my sets was visually from the stepdown, and while he was checking things out at least had the opportunity (my sets are pretty close, 20=30 feet is about it and many closer) to check out the flat set, but choose the visual set.
About this time, since I was using rib bones previously at my walkthoughs, I started using bigger bones like skulls and hip bones away from the set .....and saw a definitive bump in success.
So over the years, for several reasons, I've gone back almost exclusively to dirtholes & visuals.
Some years the only flats sets I made was with students, to show them what they were. Two years, had a location where I had 2 bean duff sets in a bottom, between 2 dairies. 1st check, both sets blown out from the back- one I thought had a badger it was so blown out. That happens occasionally with duff sets. So we remade them with a bigger piles of duff- but then I told Lori we might have spooked them some, so lets put in a walkthough. Maybe 25 feet away, up against a bean finger where the ground was dust, and it had a natural walk through to the field side- Two wobble holes, two different lures from what was in the hole, and we were all set. Next day.......a double in the 2 bean duff sets in pouring rain (next location also had a double so that was a blessing/cursed moment as I carried the first two out of the mud to the next, which I thought would be more sheltered (it was not) to find two more so 4 wet muddy coyotes to skin in the rain, but hey! thats what I was out there for lol).
And in the next week- 3 more singletons at the duff set- and the flat set never got a track. I know 1 set doesn't make the rule- but it confirms my belief that coyotes work the visuals more, and population matters with flat sets.
Now....and here is the kicker...... if you rely on flat sets, you MUST be spot on in your settings. And no pun intended. You have to be right there, and you need them to be in the area longer. Wind ro no wind, a coyote can see my skulls from a hell of a distance, the flat set no. On my true "the spot" locations, I have no doubt in the world I could use flat sets, and no visuals with the same success.
Out west is nice for many reasons, the number 1 in my book is unlimited access so setting spot locations is easier, cause you can get to them. Here, a mixed bag. For much of my line, I need the visuals.
I know they can be very effective, but the luster has gone for me with them. The only exception is if I find a dust like old manure pile- its so blendable I can't help myself.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 26, 2021 19:17:17 GMT -6
I think what is important, is that I believe that two lures together, can outperform each singularly.
I first found this with XLDC and Pikubua from step- XLDC a strong skunk, the other a sweet cat lure. Together, they almost seemed like a silver bullet. Yook me a long time ot convince stef to use thse two lures together- finally he did and reported the same results. I do the same today with cat lure and skunk and it seems to have the same results
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Post by trappnman on Jul 26, 2021 7:27:30 GMT -6
here is something I'd like to know.
Coyotes dig up and eat gophers i nmy traps all the time (badgers as well). and there is gobs of human scent and often dog scent. Coyotes have no problems eating them, and they are dead in trap.
But- when I cut the front feet (bounty proof) and toss the gophers in a field- they lay there untouched til the buzzards get them.
Yet, those same gophers down the hole, attract coyotes.
so I have two theories- 1) the ones I toss are covered with scent, but in the hole with lure bait it doesn't matter?
or 2) is it because they are just laying on the ground>
lol- don't know, but something I wonder at
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Post by trappnman on Jul 26, 2021 7:12:51 GMT -6
Wouldn't you think that with smaller populations, that ranges and thus travelling would be less withless mouths to feed?
But I do understand what you mean- I still set some locations like that- where if "lucky" I might have a nearby litter, but mostly its as you said marginal travel lanes. My setting these up isn't for lack of permission, but lack of access. I've been told these are "poke and hope" locations.
But my point is, even in those small properties, or less likely areas- there STILL is going to be places with tracks, that are, because of (call it habitat/stall out/safe zone) circumstances, will not only proportionately spend more time, but (and its ying and yang) you get a "defenses down" so to speak mindset.
We all know a travelling coyote is for the most part single-minded. The study I participated in here, and pretty much every study I've read, states a few things:
1) on an average night, the average coyote travels about 7 miles.
2) this can be 7 cumulative miles in a small area. Or, it can be linear.
One female coyote we had, stayed for several months on the same farm as collarred. One night, she traveled 19 miles- and then was killed by a car.
3) More often that not, the travelling pattern for that night ((locations noted every half hour) was a pattern of 3- A, B, C.
And throughout that night, the coyote would travel randomly it seemed, between those 3 attraction points and then spend time, at those points.
A TO B TO A TO C TO B TO A TO B TO C........etc.
Logic tells me (and 1st hand observation of what those points were in real life) that those A,B,C locations are the stall out points...simply meaning places where they go regular, and spend time. And this is important but often overlooked and is in fact my #1 criteria- is there a reason, for coyotes to come here regular? And will they "putter" about? And in that area, carcasses increase that puttering, and thus, imo, give you a higher overall success rate.
Again, I understand that some just don't have the habitat (more circumstances) to set as one would like, and you do what you do or stay home. I've said similar words to 1080- yes, the location sucks, but what choice do I have.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 26, 2021 6:54:20 GMT -6
IMO, unless using 100% natural bait, you are in effect using a lure.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 25, 2021 17:29:28 GMT -6
[Claybird, I'm not professing to be an expert on their methods, but from what I've read they both(Bob and Robert) catch a pile of coyotes. Both use different traps and baits. Different styles of trapping too I believe. That to me says more than 1 way works.]
different mechanical, same mindset on behaviors. I've sat around campfires with both.
Don't know who uses lure or not, just know who I sold lure to when I sold Stefs lures.
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