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Post by trappnman on Sept 15, 2021 7:06:50 GMT -6
Starting to really feel and look like fall. Kind of chilly in the mornings, typical early fall days. Leaves are just starting to turn- you can see the yellows and off green starting pretty good, and the early maples are turning red pretty quick. This past week, corn chopping has been in full swing, and I bet I see some beans starting any day. Beans got in early are already just stalks, and later beans are just starting to turn color.
Most guys got their last hay crop off, but a few of the bigger guys will get 1 more crop.
Last gopher push starts today- we have 7 farms,to do, none of which are going to be huge setups, so should be done end of week.
So that gives us 3 weeks before we start. Plenty of time to get all the fall tasks done before we start setting.
I still need to order lures and urine, but other than that for once am perfectly ready.
I'm pumped for this season- feel better than I have in years. This season can't be worse than last year- never had so much snow so early. I mean...oct 15 and 10" of snow? To start the season? Yuck.
Badger and coyotes, but will take any reds. I got all mine tanned, and sold them for $60-$75 and could have sold more. Sleepy Creek Tannery in Iowa did the work- very pleased.
what are your plans for the season?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2021 6:30:04 GMT -6
the worst for me, have been beaver. Twice, I had months long efforts- both succeeded, but both by blind luck.
1) a small pond right outside of town. Got all but 1, that I pinched in a foothold. This beaver avoided everything. He would come out on bank (snow) and make some cuttings- but even if I waded in fro ma distance, and set a trap, he would never return to that spot. But I'd leave the trap. Pretty soon I had a bunch of traps set, with no luck. Lures, unlured, etc. Finally after weeks and weeks- I came (I was mink trapping it so no problem to come there) and saw a blind set at the end of the dam was gone- and sure enough, there he was.
2) same creek a few miles away o na different year- over the summer, beaver moved in and had 7 dams and check dams. Never saw anything like that- mass migration of a whole colony. Caught 7- and sure enough, pinched one. Tried for him for a bit, saw no sign so the owner and I pulled all the dams- the creek here normally only a few inches deep- with 1 deep hole under an old tree bank. tried for him everyway I could imagine- and one day before a big thunderstorm, I set 330s everywhere I could- and in that high muddy water there he was next check. Ironically- went home, said thank God done with beaver , and got a call- on same creek, landowner saw one (same little pond area of #1). So went out- raining- set 1 330, Lori said too wet she would wait in truck- said I'll set 1 more, and as she left a big commotion and I had him in the 1st set. such is trapping lol
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Post by trappnman on Sept 2, 2021 6:54:25 GMT -6
as was told to me-
yes, of course you will catch coyotes on non stall out locations. That as never an issue. What was the issue, was the % of coyotes that you had the opportunity to catch vs ones you catch.
Thats my Holy Grail.....to catch every coyote that is aware of my set. and no, I don't do that of course. But I think my % has gone up considerably- just the fact I can catch the same amount of coyotes, over the same time period, more consistently with 1/2 the traps, indicates that to me.
Because isn't that the only way to increase numbers? Better locations and a higher trap night %?
I belabor the point at times, because its such a given for me.
I mean- you can only refine your mechanics to a certain point- you've modified your sets to the point that anything more, is just puttering for no value other than S & Gs. Same with lures and baits- you know what works and no change in lures is going to give you much of an increase in %. There are no silver bullet lures. Even my long experiments with gophers- yes, the set with a gopher does get hit first it seemed in side by side tests....but are those extra coyotes? Perhaps a few.
So the only way to increase your trap night and overall %, is to take a higher number of those aware of your set.
It seems the words "stall out" and "the spot" draw angry critique, and I don't understand why.
Should we always refer to those locations as "places he spends more time than other places on his range"?
Or "spots he visits regular and poops"?
Or- my homegrown definition- "a place he feels COMFORTABLE>
Common sense is it not? A place where a coyote spends a lot of time, and a place where his chickenshit on alert all the time defenses are somewhat subdued?
To me that means more coyote opportunities, in a shorter time frame. Add in a good visual or a carcass to keep him milling-
Another term that is confusing is "travelways". But are all travelways the same. Look at it like this- you are going on a trip. Your travel route is the highway. But do you just boogie down that road from A to B? Or, are you going to have stops- to pee, to eat, to rest? On any travelway of any length, there are going to be areas where they stop, where they will spend a little time before moving on. It might be where a cow died 5 years ago, it might be a little water area, it might be some old badger diggings, it might be ?. Places where his defenses are somewhat relaxed.
Coyotes are the same- Not too often imo, and based on the results I know from the collaring program I was involved with, are they linear over any long distance. Our study results are similar to studies all over the country from east to west. It showed the average coyote, traveled from 7 to 9 miles a night. Over a relatively small area-
But of course that wasn't in motion all the time- it was found that more often than not, a coyote that was on the move have several destination points that he went to randomly, AND SPENT TIME AT throughout the night. Going to B to A to C to B to A etc.
Could one logically think his defenses, and MINDSET are different on the route vs the destination?
I can, and do. -------------------------------------------
Now- as far as the stick thing. That damn stick would have spooked those coyotes with or without lure on them. I've proven that multiple times- its no mystery- place a stick or whatever Im guessing on a travel route they are familiar with, and it changes things. Why do you think some snaremen say set up your trail blockings far ahead of season opening?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 2, 2021 6:31:02 GMT -6
Never used them, at least to my knowledge. Badgers so have an odd odor- musky, but different for sure.
I do know they don't roll at badger diggings- perhaps not enough direct gland scent per se, but at same time Im sure it would be an attraction- at least west of Mississippi coyotes and badgers go hand and hand.
Marty- do any of your lures have a predominance of badger?
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Post by trappnman on Sept 1, 2021 14:26:31 GMT -6
Ouch. Lol....
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Post by trappnman on Sept 1, 2021 6:32:24 GMT -6
some are very quick to draw conclusions, from very small sample sizes.
In other words, what happened once, will always happen.
And really, nothing could be further from the truth-
I hear many say numbers don't matter- yet, in so many ways they do. Yes, Yes- if you only have 3 coyotes in your entire driveable range, you aren't going to take big numbers.
I've caught cats- I've skun and put up cats- but I wouldn't begin to tell someone that has trapped 100s of cats, how to do it- cause with my small numbers I just don't know.
So doesn't the same follow for any species? That those that constantly get big numbers, are, by that criteria alone, more apt to make reasonable conclusions vs conclusions based on small numbers?
That is you have a scenario that you encounter 1 or 2x a year, vs that same scenario repeated dozs of times?
I've lived by this truism- just because I can't do it, doesn't mean it can't be done. But by the same token, just cause you can't do something, doesn't mean I can't.
In trapping, like anything, experience matters. And there are several stages to that- 1t- you have a tad of knowledge, and set traps. Over time, you have some success- and then you get to stage 2- you feel confident in your sets, and are doing reasonably well. Most stop at this stage for multiple reasons- often time constraints. But for some- they aren't satisfied- at the end of a season they can't wait to put into practice the nuances they learned the past season.
I've been trapping coyotes for 34 years. Many times it was 2 steps forward, 1 step back. But the underlying factor was at each step, at each location- I strived to become better and better. Adding this, subtracting that, refining my methods to what is, I feel, my best options.
And I'm still learning, each and every day- adding to my coyote knowledge, pondering, mulling things over.
To that end- I love debate on my theories- I'm confident in them, more importantly my feelings don't get hurt, and maybe, just maybe I can improve either by defending my points successfully, or by having them shot down. Why the hell do you think I changed my line management 100%? A better way.......
Never, do I back away from a discussion that might, just might, improve my abilities.
so -go ahead- bust my balls.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 1, 2021 6:10:31 GMT -6
Im not sold on "test sticks" etc.
too many variables on way too small samples.
like catching 10 female coyotes in a row- doesn't mean much.......
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2021 14:26:25 GMT -6
I can confidently say, that I believe any trap I set out, will, given time, catch a coyote. I know that sounds like bragging, but it's not. Not that I can catch every coyote that walks, but a generic one sure. I understand that's your measure, I personally feel trap night success tells me more.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2021 13:23:09 GMT -6
about the stick- thats travelways too- same as avoiding snares.
let me tell my story again-
walked a creek everyday to check some non drowning coon sets. On way back, I'd walk a trail on edge of little wooded belt next to creek. The trail was maybe 2 feet wide- I walked it everyday in packed snow, and every day would be fresh coyote tracks. So I thought (before we had snares) if I place this stick (pencil thick, about 4 feet tall) opposite this big tree- it would be a perfect place to hang a snare.
I placed that stick in the snow- and the next day, and forever after for all I knew- every coyote walking that trail veered around that stick in the plowed corn, and rejoined the trail on the other side. Never saw another coyote track going between the tree and the stick, even though I walked it yet. found the same with snares when we got them- very cautious about any blocking or something in their travelline.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2021 13:16:59 GMT -6
Every set I make- every set- is started by taking a mataxe and chopping up a large area around at least 3 sides of the set.
and then a 3" hole at one end.
So - that should scare off every coyote around if your theory is correct- yet it doesn't.
and it doesn't take long- with foxes and possums and coon and skunk and feral cats- to make every set you have, a remake. And that doesn't scare off coyotes to the point the refuse to work a set. Badgers make an incredible mess- digging many many holes after one gopher- woodchucks have multiple burrows, gophers can leave huge piles of dirt- overnight- yet coyotes are on top of them before I get there that day.
Farmers scrape roads, and edges, etc- leaving lots and lots of bare dirt- all overnight.
dirt is natural- like after time my gopher on a stick is run trap to trap by coyotes and badgers becomes natural-
There must be a reason -why your coyotes won't work remakes, and won't work badger diggings.
Of course I believe some lures have different reactions. and I trapped for decades EXACTLY like you portray- set spokes, and wait. I don't need cameras to tell me that such places see less REGULAR action than stall out locations. Unless we disagree on that?
Its not I can't catch them like that- its I prefer to get as many as I can, in the short window I have- and thats going to the coyotes, not let the coyotes come to me.
I don't believe there is a silver bullet lure- one that vastly outperforms any other. I think that lure matters, but that location matters more, and yes, I can catch a coyote with a pork chop nailed to a tree........
I guess I just don't see the argument-
If he is there every night, I'll catch him quicker than if hes there 1x a week-
and if its a place where his buddies hang out, I'll catch more over a shorter time, than not.
Lets make it mink- I go to a creek and see 10 places that would be good blind sets. But- I choose the 11th. Now- if I set, I WILL catch a mink...might be next check, might be last. But any of those 10 better locations- my odds go up considerably until the top location- will give me mink "quick"
Same principle
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2021 10:56:04 GMT -6
Don't you think that they come across torn up circles all day, including tearing up some themselves? Badger diggings are common, as are gophers. woodchucks, etc. Bare spots occur all over. so if the question is does a catch circle spook coyotes, in my experience absolutely not. And of course I mean over all, not specific animals. All my methods during season are based on general behavior. Come back to an area after trapping, and tracks all over and holes blown out.
but sticks are a different thing altogether. I've often told the story about my walking path and a stick I placed and how the coyotes detoured around it for evermore. BUT- take a straight fencepost (a stick so ot speak) at a gopher set, and its gopher on a stick as Lori says.
why the different reactions? One singular stick was an oddity- a bunch of them is just a fence of gophers. Familiarity. mindset.
I'm convinced the difference in reaction to your admitted non stall out areas, vs stall out areas is familiarity. Mindset.
That reactions, change with mindset. And really, that's become my silver bullet------ mindset vis a vis location.
in a nut shell- that the same set, the same lures- will produce better in a location where the coyotes defenses are down, when he has time to putter, etc. I also believe that most "walk-bys" aren't misses in that the coyote refused your set...its that the coyotes mindset was so singleminded, that he was simple unaware of the set.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2021 10:13:45 GMT -6
I've been....lucky to have too much snow last few years. And it does give me some clues, for sure.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 31, 2021 8:19:48 GMT -6
on the mindset on your catch circles-
the only gland lure that would smell like a coyote, would be if you took the glands from a fresh killed coyote, and immediately used them on another set------and even that would very quickly loose the real live coyote smell as it decomposes. I think gland helps a lure, but as a "gland lure" not a fan.
the point I was trying to make, was would that 2nd coyote, be afraid of coyote smells from a familiar coyote? I can't think that it would- he would be used to strong odor residue in any place the 1st coyote hung out. So strong smells of that coyote surely wouldn't spook another of the same social circle. or be afraid of a bare spot with a hole in the ground. If anything, wouldn't that trigger a more bold approach?
But if the coyotes coming through are true travelers or nomads- then I could understand reluctance to enter that area. If the location of the remake was a pass through area- an area where defenses were on alert- he might well be reluctant to work it.
but in a location in a place he spends time....wouldn't all that change? In my opinion, for sure.
Two questions I'd love the answer to:
How many coyotes that should be aware of my sets, are.
and
How many that are aware of the sets, work them.
Wish I knew
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2021 9:54:33 GMT -6
but is the mindset of the next coyote, the same as the 1st?
in other words, first come no other coyote activity- but 2nd- plenty coyote smell. If in a more comfortable location, perhaps he wouldn't be so spooked of another coyotes scent? local vs tavelling?
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2021 9:04:06 GMT -6
or a mindset thing.........
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2021 8:48:10 GMT -6
I've found this, and after 2 years of testing, take it as fact for me. I've read about always having a fresh set if all sets have caught a coyote. So for 2 seasons, everytime we had all sets catching a coyote, would put in a fresh set. and the amount of coyotes we caught on the fresh sets vs the worn out remakes was so small, it simply wasn't worth the bother.
Best I did on one location last year was 2 sets, 1 week, 7 coyotes. 4 and 3.
only time I put in a fresh set and not a remake at a location, is if the set is so liquid mud it can't be reset.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2021 7:56:51 GMT -6
I find that amazing. Here, the coyotes and badgers hunt the same fields, and both eat gophers out of my sets. Its very common to see badger diggings along side fresh canine tracks.
99% of the time, I don't even need to move the trap. Always, they dig in a donut circle, and the stake is solid in the middle. so I just take my shovel, fill in the worst of the digging, and then make a path directly across the top of the mound. At the top, a small wobble hole in the dirt, with a fresh shot of a skunky lure. I catch 8-10 badgers a season, and on most of those remakes every year, its a coyote. 3 years ago, had a badger, and then 3 nights in a row a coyote (that is NOT typical).
Ed Schnieder told me the same, he could never catch a badger in a remake- BUT he was not remaking it into a walkthrough, he was trying to remake the original set.
PS- WY coyotes don't mind badger remakes either.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2021 7:41:49 GMT -6
sure-
I'll speak of what I know best, my farms around here.
I do believe that coyotes have an innate attraction to cows- eons of following bovine herds makes this genetically ingrained. And probably for the same reasons as today. Food.
Food in 2 ways-1) the farming practices that go into raising cows, and 2) the incidental food that cows provide.
All farms with cows are not equal. I have several big dairies that I don't trap, even though they see an occasional coyote, because there is no off season habitat. The farms I'm talking about have habitat (even the stockyards I trapped in KS had habitat), and habitat here means hills and coulees. the dairies range in size from 150 at the small end, to upwards of 1000 on the high end. Very few 20-30 ones around. As far as acreages, hard to tell cause all the big ones rent land. So total of farmers rent/own...some 1000+, most 350-600 I'd say. but in between the big dairies are all the guys that now raise calves or finish them for the big guys...so hard to tell. but not 10 acre lots or anything like that.
1) you need hay, you need corn, you need to do something with manure. So you have mixed crops. And hay is dominate. So you have that crop mix, you have the corn providing seasonal habitat, and thus you have habitat that allows easy living for coyotes. Hay is cut 5 or 6 times a year proving easy hunting. In addition, there is ruff stuff. Now, you would think that cows then are just an afterthought, meaning that good habitat will have coyotes. Yes, and no. Remember, we want them there regular, not just wandering by. so that brings us to the second, and maybe most important aspect- the incidental food provided by cows.
2) Having cows, produces both by-products and inventory so to speak. cows in pastures, stir things up. High grass eaten, stuff trampled down- mice, voles etc on the move. In addition, coyotes glean things from manure, and will eat off of cow patties, and often follow manure wagons as well doing the same. Manure piles are good attraction points for the same reason.
and if you raise cows, esp dairy, you are going to have dead ones. Some have the old fashioned mentioned dead pile- and those are typically in the back forty, and get worked all season- where I get my skulls from. But fewer of those, more common is the compost pile- and thats often right close to the barns and buildings. Coyotes work compost piles same as dead piles. I have 1 farm that has a dead shed. 4 bays, open on 1 side, roof- coyotes work that quite well-
And I mentioned inventory- by that I mean hay and silage storage. Hay stacks, esp old hay yards with deteriorating bales on one side, are hotspots, as are silage piles if located right.
So cows provide a somewhat stable off season food source.
---------------------------
so its twofold- cows and the farming practices that go with them- you can't have one without the other.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2021 7:16:10 GMT -6
Badger remakes are as sure a thing as I can get. Talk about a visual!
I remake it into a walkthrough set with the walkthrough going right over the top of te mound, with a small lure hole right on top at a pinch point. Deadly.
While on badgers, caught 3 at the same set over a week- never had that happen before
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Post by trappnman on Aug 29, 2021 7:33:15 GMT -6
I first started using what I call the sweet/sour setup when I started having success with the walkthrough. I used 2 lures, 1 each in 2 small wobble holes.
I continued to use 2 lures and also baits when I became more of a dirthole man. I don't mix them per se, but both go in the hole and scraped off on the upper side of the hole, so in effect they are mixed.
We are in the process now, of reducing the number of lures we use down to say 6 lures- and then all the various combinations. Add in a gopher and a commercial bait, and the combinations are at least for me "endless".
I like skunk. Blow me away skunk. The louder the better. I can't say that loud skunk won't spook a coyote somewhere, but I have to say if its occurring, I don't see it. So I want a LDC as my #1 lure. I won't leave a location without it.
Up until a few years ago, I always put my lures down the hole. but I started to use a high up call, and I have to say anecdotal evidence tells me over last few years, I'm catching more coyotes at "poke and hope" locations.
One thing I don't like about farm country, is because of farming practices its not always possible to get to where you want, and to set where you know you should. So what to do? Some would say drive on by- and trust me I do that all too often as "I know coyotes here, but just no place to set". But I want to trap coyotes- so I do need to set up these locations whereever I can. so that brings in visuals, and call lures.
So a good call lure in say a high fence post (nice cracks so you can smear it in on a couple sides) is going to get that odor out there, and combined with the visual is going to get him to mill around (same as having a carcass there) at a location he might only give a cursory glance.
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