Stall-outs

[Deleted]

Since this board has pretty close to have died, I thought maybe a “flash from the past” could help ignite some discussion.  How about the stall-out theory?  

I can truthfully say that this theory did NOT work for me at all.  And additional thoughts from 1080 did not come to fruitation for me.  I even studied this idea year-round for 5-6 years up until 2 years ago when I said to myself enough was enough, STOP dickin around with this because it’s insignificant to my catch numbers in my territory.  In addtion, I followed 1080’s advise to the letter year after year and 12 months a year and the theory did not work for me.  I was far better off with my catch numbers by SETTING ON SIGN!  If the sign was at what I figured was a stall-out, fine, I killed those coyotes but setting the stall-out did not give me an advantage in catch frequency or numbers over setting the travelways to the stall-outs!


When I killed those coyotes at the stall-outs there were no more coyotes available at that location for the next 2 months!  There was no back-fill and I found that I could kill the same coyotes at the stall-outs  just as easily before and after they used the stall-out by setting on sign.  Most of the stall-out locations never seemed to last more than 2-3 years before the property owner would make a significant chang and the attraction would disappear.

Yes, I found a handful of stall-outs but those locations would have given up the same catch numbers 100-200yds away by just SETTING ON SIGN!!!

[Deleted]

If you don’t know what I’m talking about, here’s an old essay by Steve.  It apparently works for Steve but not for me/

Back when I was learning to find and trap coyotes, I found out a simple truth- all locations were not created equal- some places I set traps I caught nothing, some places I caught 1 or 2 and some places I caught more. As a new comer to coyotes, even coming from a long background in trapping, I had very little knowledge of coyote behavior and didn't have much understanding of not only where coyotes would be, or but more importantly how they responded to sets based on where they are.
I did notice one thing though- some set locations not only produced more coyotes, put produced the same year after year. Whereas other locations were good one year, but not the next. Trying to make sense of all this was something I gave great thought to, and still do but could only come up with one answer- that these locations were, for whatever reasons, some type of social areas and thus I had a larger than “normal” (whatever that was) number of coyotes coming into that location. At the time, I had a couple of set locations like this and they did have some common features. My thought was the features present must be the reason for the increased success. I was half right it turns out. Going with the theory that the location was defined by physical characteristics, I found that my “social areas” to be in places that had some elevation compared to the surrounding areas, were somewhat centered for multiple approaches (ie long field roads, tree-lines, etc), were isolated insofar as few if any daily disturbances and was more barren, open spaces than woody or brushy. So I looked for these type of physical locations, and had some success in duplicating the original criteria. I'd look for locations that had all or most of those features as my go to location type and found it wasn't as simple as I might have thought. I found that not all matching criteria locations produced as expected- but the ones that did produce, produced well. So I got to the point where I knew a little, I knew I was having a lot of coyotes at certain points, but not the why and didn't have the knowledge to go much beyond that.
And then I got lucky. I was involved in a radio program with otter for the DNR in the early 90s, and during talks with the biologist was hired to do a coyote collaring program. The bonus was it would be on my actual trapline. So in setting traps and collaring coyotes, I found what was expected by me to be true: the locations where I trapped 1-2 coyotes a season, gave us 1-2 coyotes to be trapped for collars The locations where I got 6+ coyotes during season were locations where we put collars on multiple coyotes.
While this made sense, what the collaring tracking showed surprised me and put into play one more piece of my puzzle in determining better locations. And that was that the locations with 1-2 coyotes collared, showed those coyotes to be pretty much homebodies in that if they were to be tracked, the original release point more often than not was where they could be found. But the coyotes from the “social locations” were different- one never knew where they would first be located, and a couple vanished (out of range) and never were tracked at all. So now this made sense in at least one way to me, and that would be that “social areas” drew coyotes from different places and that the little out of the way locations were home to a coyote or two, but not much else.
So my goal became to find more of these social areas, and by doing that I could eliminate checking too many empty traps, traps empty because the coyotes were not there. As these thoughts were being mulled over, a trapper known only as 1080 began to come on a few forums, and discuss coyote behavior in relation to having success with
them working your sets. That by working with the natural behaviors of coyotes one has more success than by working directly against them. And that the old advice of “find a track, set a trap” might not be as all inclusive as it might seem. And understanding that, changed my whole outlook of my coyote trapping where I set and how long I set. Changed what I had been doing for the 25 years insofar as choosing locations and how I maintained lines. For the record, I've come to these conclusions with lots of help, lots of discussions, lots of guidance and I'm only summarizing past discussions on forums, not claiming original thought beyond listening, participating and thinking and forming conclusions on what was discussed. And of course putting into practice what I learned.
Research on coyotes is something that is readily available and something every coyote trapper should take the time to search out. What these studies show you is that coyotes have certain innate behaviors. To quote “Innate, or instinctive behavior is the inherent inclination of an animal towards a particular behavior”. In other words it's behavior that he cannot help but do. It's behavior that he was born with, not behavior that was learned. And by working with those tendencies we can catch more coyotes, in a lesser time period.

Let me give you one example that demonstrated to me the value of paying attention to these behaviors. I had a location that was a sand road between 2 farms going by fields, pastures, close to wooded areas for a mile and a half and more. I gopher trap this farm and noticed that literally every day I'd find coyote tracks over my previous day's tire tracks It seemed like a perfect location for a few coyotes sets. I decided to run a little line in that area with this sand road being my “centerpiece” of the line so to speak. This road ran straight from one farm back about 1⁄2 mile, made a 90 degree turn and ran for another 1⁄2 mile, then turned 90 again to go to the brothers farm. Setting along the road gave me a total of 1 coyote the first two years. Setting back a few feet from the road gave me another the next year. So a couple of coyotes but nothing near what the sign would indicate. It made no sense to me. Why weren't the same lures, same sets, same style that worked for me on other locations, working here? I mean coyotes are coyotes and tracks are tracks. See tracks, set a trap was the time honored advice. The answer came only when my mind set was led to asking WHY were these coyotes not working my sets, and the answer became apparent through the research and the discussions. They weren't working them because 1) they didn't even know the sets were there or 2) they were aware of the sets but had no interest in them,
The answer seemed to be that I didn't want to set traps for coyotes on the move, but rather for coyotes that were either at a destination or were stopping on their travels to the destination. Places where they stopped, and not only stopped but stayed there for a time. Stall out places. Places where coyotes spent time, where coyotes were in more of a relaxed mode instead of a traveling mode. In the above instance of the sand road, I started looking for stall out areas near the road, and found an area back about 1⁄2 block from the road itself, in a clearing next to the woods and a ravine, where sign showed (multiple scats, tracks of varying age, rolling areas, etc) that coyotes not only traveled through, but spent some time there. Set a couple sets there, and for a week had a coyote or 2 everyday- that success has continue in roughly the same area to this day. Now it all made sense. Where I now had my sets (back away from the travel lane, away from

danger) allowed the coyotes the time and inclination to work them vs the road sets where the coyotes had a destination in mind and simply blew by the sets. This realization also shed some light, in my opinion, when you have the scenario of seeing tracks in a medium such as fresh snow and see them walk by within a few feet of a set and never hesitate or show any indication of being aware of the set, yet down the trial you see where the tracks make a sharp veer, and there the coyote is sitting in your trap. Same general location, same type of lures, same type of sets- yet 1 ignored, 1 worked. My previous thought was “bad set” but looking at it in hindsight my thoughts are now this: in the first case, the coyote had either no inclination to work the set or wasn't even aware of the set, but at the second set, he both was aware of the set, and showed no hesitation to work it.
Same coyote, same sets, same general location (within the daily range) yet one set worked and the other didn't. For me, that reason now was obvious in that the coyote at the
2nd set was in a place where his behaviors ALLOWED him to become aware and to work the set.
Look at it this way. A traveling coyote has one thing on his mind, to get from here to there. One interesting thing we found in the collaring study (and one confirmed by multiple other studies) is that on an average night, our coyotes traveled 8-10 miles a night. But that distance wasn't always linear, meaning the coyote was here and now he is 10 miles away, but was often put on between 2-3 destination locations much closer together, and spent the time traveling between these points and then spending time at these points- points ranging from dead piles to brush piles, to weed patches, etc. Those points are destination areas. So what you get with an average coyote on an average night so to speak is a coyote doing a fair bit of traveling to a couple destinations where he spends time. And at or near these destination places, will be stall out points
.
A traveling coyote is for the most part, in my opinion, concentrated on getting from point A to point B as quickly as he can, on full alert and as cautious and nervous as he is going to be. No wonder he just blew by my set! Setting traps at locations where he is relaxed enough to spend time gives him both the opportunity and the mindset to work your sets quicker and with less neophobic behaviors then he would have while he is traveling. Win win.
The main question then was for me to determine how to reliably seek out and set nothing but stall out locations. The end game of setting stallout locations is to be on locations that are used by multiple groups. The more groups of coyotes that come to an area the more chances to catch coyotes. Big attractions such as large dairys, hog operations, stockyards can be huge draws for coyotes. Set locations can be easier to find with larger number of coyotes coming in by looking for scat, tracks coming and going and other sign of coyotes that indicate time spent such as kickbacks, rolling, toys. Some of the big attractions on my line are silage piles, in others compost or dead sheds and still others large manure piles. When you do find sign, and ideally sign showing frequent and continual coyote use, that's the place to set. The sign is telling you that coyotes are doing more than passing through. That they feel safe enough to stop. The very act that they DO feel safe enough to stop means that their innate behaviors of being neophobic are lessened or eliminated. And that means they become more apt to investigate and work

your sets.
The big attractions are nice to find but not always present. In some of my line where its flat ground, there are no mom and pop farms and the operations are fewer, but far larger, instead of milking 20 cows they are 500+ operations. So even I can see that those locations are the places to be and finding the stall out points is easy enough. The amount of sign pin points it. And just as an aside, many of my prime locations of this type, I set right next to building and barns so even though close to human activity, the safe factor is still there. When I get into other lines, it becomes a bit harder to find stall out points because those big attractions are not there instead there are countless small attractions. These lines consist of hills, coulees and a lot of pastures, woods and everyone has a few cows. So there are coyotes but no main attractions that would draw more than the local coyotes. And it becomes harder to find stall out points because you might just be working with a few local coyotes leaving less sign. My answer to this was in the absence of obvious stall out points I needed to look for minor stall out places. Places that while not stall points for coyotes approaching a large attraction, but still made use of the same theory’s. To clarify this in my mind as to what I'm looking for, I ask myself two things. Is there a reason for a coyote to be here? Would a coyote feel comfortable being here?

So I look for reasons why a coyote would want to be on the general location. That reason during most of the year comes down to food. Whether a big brush pile, a dead pile, or a hunting area the coyote is going to be attracted to the food potential and on his approach to those attractions, he will stall out before committing to the source which might be a risky operation (other coyotes, dogs, farmers, etc) to see if its safe to continue. Once determined that coyotes are coming into my attraction, I try to determine where coyotes would approach the attraction from, and what places along that route would allow them to be the most “comfortable” as an observation spot. And comfortable is a word that’s not quite right, but its the only word I can come up with that sums up a lot of what I'm looking for. Places that allow a coyote to feel safe enough to spend time.
If you agree with the above, its not too far a reach to think while there are these big attraction type stall out areas, the same principles can be applied to other areas as well. I believe that the stall out location idea can be applied to continual long distance travel ways. Areas that border rivers for example. Or fire roads, or in my case waterways. The waterways here grass/alfalfa mix that are wide enough to take a pass or two with the mower and baler. These are hayed a couple of times a year so the waterways are mainly short grass, and thus are major travelways. Some of these stretch for miles from farm to farm often going 5-10 miles as one continuous waterway. So while I'm setting on travelways, I still try to find the spots on that travelway where a coyote, to my mind, would feel most “comfortable”
I wish I could tell you that I got it all figured out and that all my locations were prime. That I never checked an empty trap or had locations that didn't pan out. But I can't do that because I still strike out. More often than I like. And I'm still learning, more and more every year. But what I have been able to do is cut the number of traps I'm running to 50/60% of what I used to run and catching the same amount of coyotes and more as when I ran 100 plus traps And the reason is that it no longer becomes a waiting game. I can setup and be in and out after 5-6 checks because I'm setting where the coyotes innate behaviors allow him to both be aware of and working the set.

[Deleted]

I’m fortunate that I’m retired so I can put words to action. I have property owners who allow me complete freedom of access to be on their property in my endeavor to learn coyote behavior and this stall-out theory was a good one to work on 12 months a year. How many coyote trappers have the ability or desire to study coyotes in such a manner 12 months a year? So, I spent 9 months of the years outside of trapping season just searching out stall-outs, some with cameras and some without.

Knowing coyote traveling can and will be traveling 3.4 mile/hr finding a stall-out seemed to be the gem of a set location because they’re suppose to be slowed down. They do slow down from the 3+ miles/hr trot at a stall-out BUT I found with the right scent I could have them put on the brakes BEFORE and AFTER the stall-out location. So, instead of looking for the stall-out set location, all Im needed to do was find the travel-way to or from a stall-out location and success was there for me. After a time, I quit trying to find the stall-out set location, the perfect set location, where the coyote was suppose to be the most receptive, I just set on sign and killed the same coyote!

[trappnman]

let me clear up a few things-

It was never said to not set on sign- in fact just the opposite. 1080s advise to me was this: get permission on EVERY farm you come across. Then when setting- check out each farm, and if no fresh, abundant sign, move on to the next. 

This is for me hard advise to follow. When I tell a farmer I'm going to trap his farm, I feel obligated to do so. So I do.  But as 1080 pointed out...if when you get there no fresh sign, whats the point? So the advise was never to not set on sign, but instead set on plenty of sign, the more the better.

Perhaps some of the confusion lays in my explanations- stall out isn't a place where they go from cruising to a walk-

its where they stop. Stall out. Rest. Observe. Relax.

and stall out points aren't definitive in that they always exist in the same place, or the same time frame, or the same set of habitat/circumstances. They are mobile- they change with the seasons, they change with the weather, they change with habitat.

So- the advise isn't to not set sign- the advise is rather than set 12 traps 2x2 in 6 scattered locations around a farm- set 4 at ONE location. The location with the most sign. tracks that go multiple directions, scat in varying degrees of age. Lots of sign. Fresh sign.

How can that fail? Every farm has stall out locations. Mamy will have travelways involved.

So where and why do they stall out?

Let me back up. I cannot, at least have not been able to, to use the system  in full on all my lines. I have 2 distinct types of farms. 1) Flat land large dairys or beef usually hay and corn and 2) small farms with a few cows, hay/corn/beans/pastures and lots and lots of deep coulees and hills,

1) These farms are right out of the book stall out locations and a joy to set up and run. Large herds of cows, big manure/compost piles, lots of short grass hay (remember voles #1 food here) and LIMITED habitat. Many of my set ups here, are right next to barns and pastures. But its not just go in and throw traps where you see footprints going down a lane. Did that for years, and caught coyotes and stayed for a couple of weeks to do so.

Cause sure coyotes came by at my spoke type locations- but how often? Every day? Every few days? Every couple of weeks (that old cry). Wouldn't it be better to go to the center of the wheel? And from the center- where does the sign converge? Where is that spot where approaching coyotes to the attractant, stop to observe, to look it over before barging in? Its not at the attractant- by then his single minded brain is on the attractant itself- he might or might not work the set.

But that spot he observes from- he spends some time there. As do others. Why would you not set there?

Its like if I want to see Bob, and a friend says Bob was at hardware store yesterday. Good I say, and go sit by the hardware store. Now- I might see Bob that day, the next day, next week or never...... but if I go to where Bob lives or works.....

These locations are easy to find.  And 2-3 traps does the job of many more, in far less time.

2) But here is the pickle. I don't have many big man made attractions here- too hilly, too rough. I have 2 things going for me here- a truly impressive system of waterways that go from farm to farm, and the small farms with mixed crops have field roads (row croppers often don't as they don't need access to back fields).  The big disadvantage- way too much natural habitat in the form of woods, set asides, brushlands. So finding the 1 spot, becomes harder. Keep in mind that the reason to try to find large attractions and thus larger stall out areas, is that those places get more coyotes using them to begin with, and yes they do fill in.

Since I can't find one spot on a location, instead being a farm of multiple similar/identical locations, all separated to the edges of the farm, one is forced to set up a couple spots...not the 3 or 4 of past years, but often 2 here, and then 2 there. And these are the locations where you get 1 or 2- and thats it.

But even then, I keep the stall out theory in mind- where on the farm would coyotes come (there MUST be a reason, or I don't set), and where would they in that area, observe things, stop for a bit..take a good pee and a dump and relax just for a bit?

I know from my experience- open travelways with no side cover, while having sign, don't produce like they should- observation of where the tracks are going or coming from, does.

So what has the stall out done for me?

in the past, I ran 100 traps to that roughly 100 coyotes. Thats setting 100 traps, baiting, luring 100 traps, tending 100 traps (possum/skunk/coon catches double and triple setting mostly travelways) so its constant remaking of sets. And with the horrible weather of the last forever it seems (10" snow few days after setting up last year) thats a lot of sets to run and keep operating.

Now- I run 50 to 60 traps at the most. Instead of having to access 3-4 way points on a farm, its 1. And half the sets to put in the ground, half the sets to maintain, half the cost of lure/urine/bait/peat etc.

Half the time to run the line. On a poor day I'm home by 2 or so, a good day home by dark. And thats skinning everything in field (your tow hitch skinner idea is perfect, have used it now for several years) Makes life a lot easier.

and the kicker is the same amount of coyotes. On 2 flat land lines I'm basically in and out in a bit more than a week- my other two coulee lines, I need to say a bit longer- but nothing like the 2-3 weeks as in the past.
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I don't understand- you were better off setting on sign, not the stall out?

Whats your definition of a stall out? My very definition in the visual examination of a stall out spot, is the abundance of sign.

Year round observation will only give you clues on large, multiple group permanent attractions. Areas, interests, needs are vastly different in every season. 1080s advise to me was know where the coyotes where in your areas- not the farms per se- but the area. Where the pups are, how many family groups? Sirens and calling pinpoints this- and I'll be honest, I don't do that. I should. I'm betting my % would skyrocket.

The second bit of advise- and I don't do it cause I'm lazy and don't want to- but have every farmer you know call you when they have a dead calf, and you come and pick it up and put it where you want it. Do this all spring and summer. Bait it, and they will come. I do have my farms in many cases, put the dead calves where I'd like them, and several save them if it happens just before I come or during. Move the cheese to move the mouse.... It helps for sure.

And something else I do- if a marginal spot doesn't produce right away (by day 3) I'll bring a couple of coyote carcasses there. Skinning in the field is imo the way to go- quick, easy, done when you get home and the blood spot and carcass do cause stall outs.

I trapped coyotes for 30 years- this method of management was an eyeopener for me.

Mindset. Thats the silver bullet.

[Deleted]

I don't understand- you were better off setting on sign, not the stall out?

Whats your definition of a stall out? My very definition in the visual examination of a stall out spot, is the abundance of sign.

My defintion of a stall-out is exactly the same as yours and that in itself is where the problem lies.  Even being on properties and State lands 10-12 months of the year specificlly studying coyotes I found very few locations as we both agree are stall-outs.  If I found and kept track of family groups I still did not have locations that had a multitude of sign during trapping season.  More sign was at these "supposed" stall-out locations but within 2-5 nights of setting those coyotes were killed and there was no backfilling from the spokes.  

Sure, along with you, the stallout theory is always in the back of my mind but I quit chasing the theory so to speak.  If I find a stall-out, SUPER but I've gone back to what I call "gleaning" coyote because really it's a condition of the coyote population on property I've got permission to set.  Yes, I think that really explains my situation.  If I don't find an abundance of sign, there is no stall-out which is the norm.  If I figure there are 2 coyote running a fenceline, I set to kill those 2 and leave.  It may take consirable time before they come back through but they do.

When I started coyote trapping I had numerous properties that showed classic examples of stall-outs prior to 1080 explaining what one was.  I set them up of course and I caught coyotes quite easily. All was fine and dandy but my supply of coyote dwindled away and with them the stall-outs.  In today's world if I can find what I believe are 3 coyotes on a property, I'm golden for about 2-5 nights seemingly catching the homies.  

Another factor are the properties themselves.  I obtain permission to trap a 40 or 80 and I find sign.  I don't have permission to trap any other properties within a 2 mile radius and can't get it or the property is wrong for that time of year.  This is where the "gleaning" comes into the picture when there isn't a stall-out available on the propoerty I have permission on.  Set on sign and take them as they come through traveling at 3.5 mph you need to be able to reach out and slap'em along side their head to get them to whoa-up!

The last 2 years I've been using cameras(video) while testing lures and baits and have verifired to myself enough times to know it can be done if you've got what will trigger them.

[Deleted]

LOL, as I got done reading my reply it's all very simple. If you've found sign, set it, if you've found lots of sign as would be deemed a stall-out, set it! Pretty darn simple, set on sign whether it's a little sign or a lot of sign and call it what you may, you're making a choice on how much sign to set on for how long!

[trappnman]

kinda....

But let me frame this a different way......

lets say you can see coyote tracks as if they were painted on the ground. Would all places those tracks went, be the "best" place to set? in other words, are all places along that track line, equal in their potential?

Could I walk along with you, and point to places here and there, would you set those up with the same confidence of places along the track line you deemed better or best?

Lets imagine further, that those painted track lines of every coyote in the area, fade a bit each day- so that you now have bright lines, and various degrees of faded lines.

Would all those tracks be equal?

And wouldn't a place where you got lots of brights lines, and lots of faded lines- be a more advantageous place to set, over a location where there was a couple of faded lines, or even 1 bright line?

so boiled down-

"the spot" theory is to find the locations where you have lots of bright lines. It gives you, imo, a much higher % of coyotes, since as we all know and 1080 told me this more than once "empty traps are killing you". And the chances of finding such brighht line locations, increases with the size of the attractant. 

Now- can you set on one of those singleton lines, and wait it out and catch that coyote. Most likely. I did it for years. But man, those empty traps were killing me.

With the constant rain, snow, freeze, thaw that my seasons have become, every day is precious, so I do want to be in a relative speaking manner in and out.

Let me be very honest, on many of my hill farm locations- 1080 wouldn't get out of the truck to set up. They are NOT what he would consider macro stall out points- but, imo, where I now set, I set micro stall out locations- and by that I mean, based on observations by me all  summer, by the farmers, by gossip, and yes by my coyote knowledge such as it is, I have a pretty good idea of where those local coyotes are most of the time and will be during season. Even if its 1 coyote, I feel that within his range, there ARE locations that will produce better.

So that lets say you go on a farm, and you find 10 places with tracks-  surely you deduce what are the better setup points, and not just follow the advice  "see a track, set a trap"?  

I know you do. So let me ask this: whats your criteria for picking locations along a track line?

I suspect we agree here......

so you aaren't really rejecting the theory, you are modifying it for your circumstances... just like I've done with my hilly farm lines.

I'm enjoying the discussion...gets the old gray matter working.....

[trappnman]

I didn't realize your farms were so small.

Most of my farms are bigger operations in the 750- 1500 range, some bigger but even the small farms are 250-350 acres.

I don't run into your problems- the only times I've been denied permission is if other trappers are there. 1080 had a good thought here- if someone denies you permission, move on as they don't have enough coyotes to matter. I know that doesn't apply to you

[Deleted]

Yup, and I have only 1 "real" diary farm! Most of my properties are not farms, they are usually what I call "deer hunting properties". The last 2 years I've been slowly re-extending my fall line back out into the larger crop farms. I really dislike field trapping where the only structure left after chisel plowing are fence rows or crop change that still holds it's identity after chisel plowing, or the edges of drainages. Depending on the weather before I set, everything that can be chisel plowed gets plowed including the bean fields. I really enjoy and would rather trap the wooded deer hunting properties but those are getting harder each year to get permission because here in Michigan, deer is king.

[trappnman]

I feel your pain. So many of the 1 crop farms (corn) harvest, manure, plow all within a few days. And you try to stay out of the way- but with such big equipment its hard.

but I have 2 things going for me- those that chop corn, and thats a lot of dairies, tend to leave the plowing til late season or spring......so I can drive on the corn fields. Or they bale the stalks and leave until winter in many cases, so I again can drive.

Beans are slowly changing. 10-15 years ago, no one plowed bean fields in the fall- worst you got was nitrous being added, and that still left the fields open, and I love bean fields- takes a lot, lot of wet, to make a picked bean field impassable, as long as you keep moving,m and stop on even a slight incline. I set a lot of traps in bean fields for 2 reasons- 1) most bean fields here have weed fingers in the fields, or small corners with unpicked beans. Both are good set ups, and bean duff makes a good quick blendable pattern set. My preferred setting spots are bean field edges.

But every year it seems, I see more bean fields fall plowed- and that sucks.

Deer is king here too (along with turkey), we are smack dab in big buck country- but even my farms that lease or have hunters, allow me to trap. On the lease lands, I stay clear of the woods and everyone is happy. I;ve had farms that leased, and the hunters didn't want me..until 3-5 years later and the landowner calls...say, the hunters have been seeing lots of coyotes on the cams, can I come....

and the farmers that just let people hunt- they tell the hunters (and I've had hunters come up to me and ask where my traps are cause they have strict orders as one said "not to F with my trapper, cause you will go not him") they have a trapper and he will be staying.

I have 4 damn deer openers during my season- 5 if you count bow- youth season late october, 1st season week in nov. 2nd season 3rd week in nov, then muzzle loaders. Worst thing is having ot wear orange for all of that.

[Deleted]

Speaking of stall-out compared to how and where my set locations are, here is a good example of how I have to trap. What you see is a little old cemetery(inside green circle) out away from the woods on one side and crop ground on the other 3 sides, I can't get permission to trap anywhere except the field around the cemetery. Coyote come out of the woods on the right and hunt around the cemetery. Usually there will be a pair of either females or males that do this. I set the righthand edge of the cemetery in the plowed field and kill the pair and then, I've learned to leave because there will be no more coyotes that year. That's what I call "gleaning coyotes"! LOL
youtu.be/lItqZwODnIo

[flathead40]

The cemetery is probably the stall out. I'd bet there's sign in it?? I have to admit, that's a location I'd drive on by most likely

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2021 10:24:34 GMT -6 flathead40 said:

The cemetery is probably the stall out. I'd bet there's sign in it?? I have to admit, that's a location I'd drive on by most likely

It’s really a hunting location for them, they come and they go back.  Brush around the edge and big old oaks that the deer feed under as well as a driveway tube that the coyotes always check for rabbits.  I found this because I use to catch reds in the 70’s around the cemetery.  I’ve have never found a turd on the little gravel drive that goes around the cememtery, the only sign you’ll see is in the plowed field AND with snow cover, all sign is on the perimeter.  It is a good example though of where I trap.  

[flathead40]

Is that a brush line running from woods to the cemetery?

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Jul 25, 2021 11:42:45 GMT -6 flathead40 said:

Is that a brush line running from woods to the cemetery?

That’s an access lane to the one skinny field and the woods property and it branches off as the entrance to the old cemetery.  The tube under that entrance the coyote will check it out for rabbits.  The coyotes will come to the cemetery along side this lane unless the deer hunters are there because they park at the ditch before the woods.  If there is a steady presense of hunters the coyotes will cross the ditch and come straight to the cemetery by crossing the field, hunt the east edge and loop right back the way they came.

[Deleted]

Jul 25, 2021 11:42:45 GMT -6 flathead40 said:

Is that a brush line running from woods to the cemetery?

I knew I had a video clip filed away of the 1st coyote I caught there that year.  Ain't much of a video but it is what it is. LOL
youtu.be/HMibG3XCT90

[flathead40]

That's awesome. I would have thought our areas were more similar. I can't get over the limited sizes you have to deal with. Completely different kind of trapping but similar habitat it seems.

[Deleted]

I’m glad you like it Flathead. Last year I had a pretty double of malkes and the big boy was a blondie. It was a perfect morning for a video and the coyote were only maybe 20’ apart so I turn the GoPro on and started recording. Finished up that day and got home to download and all I had of any video was a short sound track and NO VIDEO at all. Sent some time on the phone trying to fix the camera but nothing so I bought a new one and no problems.

[braveheart]

I always tell trappers location is the same all over it just takes on a different look. Once you learn how to see it it stick out like a sore thumb. I use to set far apart but have more double an triples setting closer together. But not fox trapping close.

[trappnman]

When I first went out to WY to trap on the Pathfinder, I think we drove around for an hour bewildered and only set 2 traps until we at least began to figure out how to put everything into perspective. Think of it like a big lake or river..all looks the same until you "look deeper".