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Post by fishdaddy on Jan 22, 2005 16:32:23 GMT -6
i missed 1 check this year because the water was in the road and i couldnt get to them.
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Post by 3n on Jan 22, 2005 16:38:22 GMT -6
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Jan 22, 2005 16:45:19 GMT -6
it all comes down to dogs- if dogs are a concern in that state- ie bigger population areas- then you are going to have 24 hour checks.
joel- you are right on about the % of animals/hrs in trap.
BUT- you are wrong on everyone skipping 24 hour checks. In the past- I've borrowed a truck, had the flu, battled snowdrifts in chains, etc---to check my land traps. I've never missed a day.
My worst fear- a dog in a trap more than 24 hours-
If I know blizzards, etc are coming- traps get snapped before hand, etc.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jan 22, 2005 17:44:31 GMT -6
I dont think that 72 hour check laws got trapping banned in the 4 mentioned wester states. I believe it is more because these states allow iniative and referendum ballots. If is my bet that if the anti's would have had to ban trapping through the respective state legislatures those states would still be going.
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Post by fishdaddy on Jan 22, 2005 19:42:12 GMT -6
i no the rubber jaw traps were ment for canine but who hasent caught a coon in a canine set?what do the rubber pads look like after a coon catch?
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Post by NattyBumpo on Jan 22, 2005 21:06:20 GMT -6
You're right about that Fishdaddy. I cant keep coons out of my fox sets. Dont know why they would be so attracted to red fox pee and red gland lure.
After some coon catches you will notice scratches in the pads but it doesnt effect the traps performance until they are tore up this usually takes several coon catches.
Skunks are the worse they tear the pads up bad because of the chewing.
The bad thing about softcatch traps is that you might as well get replacement pads as soon as you get the traps.
These traps will still hold every catch even with rubber pad damage but you might get a little foot damage once they are tore up.
The good thing is that you can catch all the fox you can and they do not damage the pads on the trap at all.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jan 22, 2005 23:53:37 GMT -6
Trappnman,
I applaud your willingness to obey the law and go out with the flu, borrow trucks etc.
I can't see making a man go out when he is deathly ill or when the weather catches him by surprise.
I think we are all concerned about the animals and making it as easy for them as possible.
However I think human needs trump the animals needs when there is a conflict.
As far as dogs go we all understand that concern. That could be a whole 'nother thread.
I'd just as soon not get into it because I have very little positive to say about dogs.
Let's just say that I noticed that dogs seem to cause problems for me in almost every aspect of my life.
I agree with 49er about the ballot initiatives. A trapper can and usually does win in a legislative battle but more often than not will lose on a ballot initiative.
Joel
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Post by trappnman on Jan 23, 2005 6:30:32 GMT -6
Joel- human needs do trump animal needs.
but when I'm the dealer- I do what needs to be done.
I'm not saying that I'd never have a circumstance when I couldn't check my traps- just haven't had it happen yet.
Its not a moral issue- its a cover my a$$ issue.
Free roaming dogs are a lose/lose situation for sure!
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Post by trappnman on Jan 23, 2005 6:34:16 GMT -6
If I had a 48 hour check, I'd run it tomorrow. But all my farmers would know I'm running a 48 hour check.
As it is- 24 is the law and as a professional trapper- I obey ever trapping law we have. I cannnot afford not to.
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Post by WVBill on Jan 23, 2005 6:56:04 GMT -6
Okay,
I have stayed away long enough.
Those of you that have a "24" hour check how does your law read. I too once thought I had a 24 hour check. But I was called on it and went back and read it and it says EVERDAY. Which in turn is a lot more than 24. Before you answer no what the law reads.
I have missed a few checks due to high water. I knew the sets I was going to check was under 10 foot of water so if there was anything there it was dead and I was not going to get it any time soon.
I have had to call a few farmers to check some sets for me because of high water also. They dont mind it because they are usually out on the tractor anyways and will call me when they get back in. This is due to not being able to cross a flooded roadway.
Yes I have missed a check due to illness. Two days in a row for that matter. It was just a simple call to the local DNR officer and it was taken care of. He never asked where my sets were or anything. Just documented it and said hope you feel better. Thank goodness none of my high profile locations were set when this happened.
Joel,
Great Post!!! I also believe that most critters are in the trap for just a couple of hours on a "24" hour check.
Bill
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Post by trappnman on Jan 23, 2005 7:18:13 GMT -6
Very good point- here its "once every calandar day" but we cannot check traps between 10 PM and 5 AM- so our longest legal would be 40 hours.
Our water and bodygrip laws are different- traps capable of drowning and bodygrippers need be checked only once every 3 days- no limit on under ice traps.
I have missed a water check becasue of weather- snow and ice in those cases- but there, dead is dead.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jan 23, 2005 10:29:06 GMT -6
The past couple of years I have chosen to drive over 200 miles to my first trap in order to avoid dogs and people around town.
When I set around town I never set a set where it would be likely that a dog or person would find it.
I'll walk a mile up a hill to avoid the conflict.
I've got a lot of animals close to where I live but civilization drives me away.
Joel
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Post by NattyBumpo on Jan 23, 2005 11:25:18 GMT -6
My state the law for land sets says traps must be checked 'once per calendar day'. But we can set traps and check them 24 hrs a day. Tidal marshes and water influenced by tidal flow traps must be checked every 36 hours. Sometimes Because of my job I have to run traps at night.
I also stay as far from houses as I can possibly do on each property but some farmers will tell me they see foxes running that woodline right behind the house. Then they say go ahead and set some there and point to where they see foxes. I think they want to be able check my traps from their house.
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Post by psb1011 on Jan 23, 2005 11:54:32 GMT -6
Joel Blakeslee,I can honestly say with a strait face that ive checked my entire line every day,don't matter how big a line or how small,how sick,or how healthy I am.Been running hard for 25 winters.Yesterday pulled my entire line 133 fox traps,cause of a major snow storm,and was worried that I would not be able to get to my traps. It really sucked cause I only need 9 more for a thousand.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 23, 2005 11:57:47 GMT -6
Joel- If I set only where I couldn't catch dogs- I'd almost never set a trap. THis year- I caught4
1) a black small puppy stray- released unharmed.
2) farmers jack russell- miles from his house
3) a irish setter where no farm that i know of within 5 miles has a dog- no one knew whose it possibly could be.
4) farmers dog caught while following tractor.
ANY farmland is at risk.
EVERY swale is at risk from bird hunters
MOST woods are at risk from coon hunters.
While its commendable that you drive 200 to set a trap- I don't believe you are doing it for coyotes or coon.
Or if so- not making a living at it on a 24 hour check...
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Post by nib420247 on Jan 23, 2005 13:12:36 GMT -6
I believe for me that I have to have a 24hr check, anything more and I'd loose area for sure, but if I was longlinen yotes out west, dam sure I'd go 72 or as long as I could, as far as your soft catch, thats for you and has no place in most trappers eyes, I dont have em, thought about it, and dont want em, as far as what you think I should do, I dont care, I do as i wish, and expect the same from you, I think any man has the right to do as he feels necisary and laws are not always right, espically state law, hell some states have laws as to what you can and can not do with your wife, now I dont want to know what you do to your wife, but I think anything you do do is your choice, and if someone thinks its cruel dont mean it is, dont mean it isn't, but it is your choice to make, and you do what you think is right in your situation. This is a little off topic but you get the picture (hopefully the right picture) ;D So your state might have dumb laws dosent mean I should have to follow them, like California says I shouldent put high capacity magazines in my AK, well thats great, but If you think I am going to give a crap what they think is right, ha, yeah right We might as well start listening to the cannucks on our trap useage, not me, while I cant say anything bad about there lure makeing, I think there laws suck, and nomatter what they say about my traps I think they are more than humane and will continue to use them as long as I can, as that is MY choice.
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Post by blakcoyote on Jan 23, 2005 13:43:37 GMT -6
Good thread,and very informational to me.Personally,I have never used a softcatch.I have seen them years ago and was not impressed.But after seeing post by Bob,and this thread,I have come to the conclusion,that like anything else,the softcatch has been improved on greatly over the years,just like any other trap,ie,modified 1.75's for coyotes.And bigger traps modified to reduce(not eliminate) damage on non-targets.And even though I havent used softcatch's,I can see where they are a viable tool just like any other trap,just by hearing from trappers that "actually" use them.The use of any tool is heavily dependent on the individuals ability to use that tool competently and skillfully.I personally have been thinking about giving them a try,I have one farm I cant get on except after the end of november,because the farmers dogs follow him everywhere and his main concern is his dogs,and after nov.he isnt out in the fields.So maybe if I can add another tool to my bag of tricks,it's not just better for PR,but expands my abilities and adds to my skills.After seeing what mods,and just plain improvements in regular traps these days,you would have to atleast have a hint that improvements have come along on softcatches as well.It just depends alot on whose hands there in.
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Post by blakcoyote on Jan 23, 2005 17:09:07 GMT -6
Dogs can be a pain,but it goes with the territory.I caught a farmers wifes dog this year while she was taking it for a walk about a 1/2 mile out back behind the farm.The farmer apoligized for the trap getting set off and forgot to mention she takes the dog down that one lane everyday.This was a new farm,first day trapping,and never setting it before and not knowing what to expect,I set it up with my 1 3/4 NW's full mods.I'm glad I did.It saved me a farm,It wasn't a new #3 that a 60 year old lady might not beable to get off her dog and the dog being a smaller dog,I also sent a little note in her Christmas card asking how her dog was doing and hope it's doing well this time of year also.I know I'll be allowed welcomed back next year.Yeah it's a pain sometimes,but that's the way it is around here.I think the most important tool in a trappers arsenal is his brain and common sense,being able to figure out or try to imagine what might happen on his line and in new areas.Now cats,that's a different story,farmers actually tell me if I catch one,put it down,they have enough around the way it is.Quit trapping?Never.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jan 23, 2005 23:04:30 GMT -6
I guess the point that brought me to this thread is that conditions are different in different places.
I can understand how a canine or coon trapper in the midwest or the east would run a 24 hour check.
You guys have water and water makes life. Out here in the dry country sometimes you have to travel aways to find that.
The only reason I jump in is to diffuse those of you that would mandate the Western guys to go to short checks.
You guys are great but there are those that get holier than thou on the subject.
Joel
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Post by Zagman on Jan 24, 2005 6:38:55 GMT -6
Hate to say it, but I am a bit surprised as to the concerns folks are having with dogs and cats and setting traps and trapping....
Tom Krause, Dynamite Fox Trapping:
"Never run scared, run where the foxes are"
This was in regards to competition, but I think it applies here....
I gotta believe I have as many concerns with dogs and cats as most people here in the east, but I use the best trap I can for my target animal, and if it takes care of them, it takes care of the domestics as well.....right?
Most dogs I catch are fox size or coyote size....why wouldn't the best trap for coyotes and fox be the best one for incedentals? Heck, domestics dont even fight a trap like a wild animal, and therefore, cause themselves less self-inflicted problems.
I do not perform any of my own modifications and have to pay to have them done....using a trap that TO ME will hold every coyote that comes along and NOT lose permission for me on farms where I might catch a domestic IS an expensive proposition.....
Each of my traps, I figure, is about a $20 bill laying there.....some more, some less.....
Gonna rustle some feathers, but I think a lot of the defending of some of the smaller, unmodified traps is a COP OUT.......a lot of trappers are just CHEAP.
My powered up, LAMINATED, offset, SHOCKSPRING, multiple GOOD-swiveled traps do NO MORE damage to a domestic than when I was running unmodified 1.75's. I think they actually do LESS.
The laminations, I believe, are the key.
A wide, smooth jaw SHOULD be less of a problem than a stamped, regular, THIN jaw.....
Some guys use traps "right out of the box".....
Well, these box traps, in my mind, just cannot treat an animal, any animal, as well as my super-modifieds.
This is why, in the end, I often joke that I SHOULD just run Sterlings, MB's, Jakes, etc. When I get done paying for my mod's, I am in that realm of that cost anyhow, and I am trying to emulate the characteristics of those traps that truly ARE, "Out of the Box" traps.
Most farmers, hunters, or laymen feel ALL traps are bone-crushers.....all they know is that I TRAPPED their pet.....they dont care if its in a weasel trap or a wolverine trap....
"Hey, Zagger caught my dog in a small trap that he set that MAY hold coyotes BUT will do little damage to incedentals.....isn't that great?"
Nope....more like "Zagger trapped my dog!"
I am trapping where I have permission, and the farmer really doesn't care what I am using, he just knows that I am trapping on his property, and currently, have traps "out back", so "stay out"......period.
I don't think this is a unique situation. Most farmers are level-headed, fair people.
My farmers know when I start and when I finish.....
If anything, if I do catch their dog or cat, which I always tell them when it happens, they apologize TO ME.
It has been proven to me that offsets (cats), laminations, multiple swivels, and shocksprings treat domestics AND targets as well as can be expected and STILL hold a 55 lb. coyote.
These same modifications were used when I employed 1.75's and #2's as well.....and now they are used on my #3's.
Or, I might just start buying 100% Jakes......but I will need to get divorced first! LOL
Zagman
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