Re: Kansas and the puppy Trapper!!

[trappincoyotes39]

Trapper mike if your live market trapping or need to do so for state regs great, but the soft catch is not the only choice in traps, all depends on what your doing with your catch, and what % of catch efficant your looking for in all kinds of weather conditions.
I would myself rate the sterling mj600 as the best coyote trap ever produced, as far as animal comfort, catch rate, and zero rebuilding needed to them after 100's of coyotes caught with them through the years, but in other areas/ different circumstances, they might find something better.
I'm in the dead coyote business and for what "I" do that trap has no comparison or equal.
Bob is using what he thinks best for his deal and thats fine, but a scary thing is when a small minority, thinks there ideas should be the majority rule, when that happens we will loose many good predator control devices and the anti's will have nothing to do with it. Long live the BMP process, this study will help to keep more choices and great tools in the hands of trappers.

[trappincoyotes39]

What improves a trappers image is ethics and how he conducts himself in the field and out of the field, equipment when explained to "most" they can see the advanatges to much more than just the soft catch. Years ago I have tried them, pad replacement, bent up dogs, popped jaws, bent springs pins, and so light a covering of dirt that in my area would leave your trap exsposed, isn't what I need or want.
I have a 72 hr check law and some decent sized coyotes that, alot of them fight a trap like the dickens, I would end up with bent up, beat up, and coyotes still roaming around in "my" situation.
The sterling is as well built as they come, cast wide jaws, good power, both jaws held down no loose jaw, great trigger and heavy pan setup, with the best non fowling swivels on the market, but each to his own, the softies wouldn't cut it where I'm at.

[NattyBumpo]

I'll bet Bob didn't loose a single yote because of his recycled aluminum softcatches.

[woody]

trapperMike, I sent you a pm on them softies' woody

[thunderbolt]

Trappermike, you shouldn't generalize every trapper. Just because a 72 hr check doesn't fit in your book doesn't mean it shouldn't happen. I have to check them every 24 hrs by law, not by choice. Think about Alaska, or Rocky mountain states where there is not the animal population as back east. I put alot of miles on my truck to check cat sets, it's not good buisness to check empty cat traps. It could be a month or two before the tom comes back. Different strokes for different folks.

[trappincoyotes39]

trapper mike look at this foot 72 hr check, I have many more if you care to see them.im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4ce36b3127cce99ffb44642be00000016108QctmThy4bG [/img]

im1.shutterfly.com/procserv/47b4ce39b3127cce99ffb440cc1500000016108QctmThy4bG [/img]

[trappincoyotes39]

the top one is a bridger modified, the other is a sterling, strong traps mean less foot movement, great swivels and you have a decent looking foot, as I stated I'm in the dead coyote business, my feet wouldn't work live market but I don't live market trap.
Gas at 1.83 a gal and covering 160 miles every day wouldn't leave a fur trapper any profit, 3 day checks are humane and my photos prove that, your area may be different as I stated in the above post, but we all use what works the best for each of us.

[Zagman]

I see Sterling is now making an MJ500?

This trap, unlike the MJ600, would be NY State Legal.

Anyone know what prompted the boys to make this size trap? Live Market? The popularity/unavailability of the Heimbrocks? Certainly don't need this size and quality trap for red fox.....

Zagman

[trappincoyotes39]

zag where did you see this mj500? Glen never mentioned anything of this the last I spoke with him.

[lynxcat]

It's "OK" Mike...dont let EVERYONE give you a bad time... ;D Your ignorance on the western states trapping condition is understandable....it's defined as "not knowing"....different strokes...for different folks. What works for you doesnt necessarily work for us. A lot of eastern trappers us 1 1/2 size traps for bobcats...out west they're only good for fox. AS for the check laws...there again we do things "different" out here...we dont set around dogs...makes for better trapper ettiquite.
later
lynx

[lumberjack]

TC35,
I believe it was posted on Paul Dobbins sight that Sterling fur (Keith Winkler) has,or will be getting them in soon.They were listed being $32.00,and being of a pan that can be adjusted for weight.

[trappnman]

im not a soft catch fan- but can also say never used them- and can see no reason to-

BUT-
lets not kid ourselves on foot damage and 72 hour checks. Even in the picture you posted- I can SEE the foot damage. I've trapped enough coyotes to know what that indentation across the outer toes means.

Now- that's more than acceptable in my book- but it IS foot damage. Lets not perpetuate that myth here that no damge is caused. Even the BMPs don't go that far- thus the low "passing" scores.

What is "no" damage to an ADC man or a fur trapper- IS damage to a man like Bob Wendt who is selling coyotes with NO (and really meaning NO) foot damage.

If you do indeed have a steel jawed trap that really gives 100% NO foot damage (BMP definition of no)- by all means- tell us.

Let me repeat the statement- a steel jawed trap that really gives 100% NO foot damage (BMP definition of no)

since nothing is 100%- make it 80% or more- tests now- not opinions.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman where did I state what you said? I said, my feet wouldn't work live market, I also stated for a 72 hour check these feet look great, and in fact on BMP's which are only done on a 24 hour check, both of these traps passed with a good score.
I'm not pulling the wool over anyones eye's, the traps I use have been tested and passed all BMP's. The point I was making is you can minimize alot of foot damage, by keeping the foot still between the jaws, indentations are not a problem, as again I'm in the dead coyote business, but to me straight line indentation with no side movement between the jaws is something most people could live with, trappers or non trappers. My feet on 72 hours don't look like some meat cutter feet I have seen from other traps types, nore for the most part are my traps a pile of junk after each catch or check. 24 hours these traps do a great job as defined by any bmp test conducted.
Trapper mike, the ranchers in this area really don't care how I remove coyotes as long as I'm effective at it and keep livestock loss to a minimum. Most have been born and rasied on these grounds and some did trapping as kids or what have you, yes even the ranching population has been more removed from trapping activitys, and been busy raising more livestock to make up for drought years, rising cost etc, thats why I do what I do. They are also educated in the fact that these coyotes need to be controlled, and 99% don't care how I remove them as long as there removed at key times of the year. 1 month before calving the phone starts ringing, and through lambing I'm very busy, I take there losses personally, most control men do, and I'm not about to use the padded pacifier to show confindance to a small minority, when the ranching majority doesn't care my equipment preferances as long as there dead and gone.
In the west, the softie, just won't do the job as well as other traps, that is plain and simple fact. We have alot of different weather, soil types, large land tracts, and many places to be all at the same time, and to me I'm not about to recatch a coyote that should have been there waiting be it 24hrs or 72 hrs. Because that will end up costing everyone more money.
It's scary when people start saying that the padded traps are the answer, even when Slim P starts talking that he is going to build a padded trap, but we have had BMP's going on for a few years now and there showing there is more to offer trappers both EAST and WEST more options, better choices.
Look at the BMP's for coyotes and you will see the softies did well in injury, but had low capture efficantcy. While the sterling had good injury scores and high catch rates. For what I do I want the high catch rate traps each and everytime.

[Zagman]

Any trap that requires strength to hold a coyote, in my mind, has the potential to cause damage.....I have said it before, that I feel most damage gets down to the individual animal.....

Still, Bob checks his traps every couple hours, so even those traps, I feel, and Bob must feel this way as well, they have the potential to do so as well....

Even if it gets down to cutting off blood flow and such and creates the potential for a frozen foot, this is potential for "damage".....

So, in fairness, I have never felt that a coyote in a softcatch for 3-4 hours should be compared to a coyote in a trap on a conventional 24 hour check....let alone a 48 or 72-hour check......

Granted, too many variables, and often, coyotes that I catch on a traditional check may have only been contained for an hour or two...

But clearly, when I am getting to some traps at noon or 1PM, they have been there a bit longer......

Zagman

[Steve Gappa]

as Wiley once said "Do you want a coyote trap or not?"

[fishdaddy]

here in ohio we have a 24 hr. check and i see very little foot damage on the coon i catch and have very little chewing this is all dryland trapping.but i believe a 48 hr. check would be better i could have a bigger line.

[17kiss]

Speaking of frozen feet. had lots of them last week. Dont take very long either. Can see why Bob runs every few hours now. We had no pullouts using Softies in Ks. on 24 hour check but as far as frozen feet , wont make much difference IMHO.We had coyotes freezing up to elbows injust a couple of hours riding in back of truck, makes for some rough skinning

[Edge]

TrapperMike;

It is not allowed here to crap on someone elses LEGAL methods of trapping.Period.

You can check your traps twice daily;more power to you.

State associations have worked long and hard to get longer checks in place,mine included,I dont tolerate that 24 BS from Bob,and I aint tolerating it from you.

There were subsequent related posts that were deleted as well.

Edge

And as a reminder,if you want to run an extended check line using modified lammed traps,you are welcome to come trap with me;I believe you will be shocked at the lack of excessive damage.No cost to you,free room and board,jsut schedule and show up.

Also,I have seen the "Soft"catch in use;believe me,that sells a lot better to the fans than the p[layers.

[trappincoyotes39]

trapper mike with your statement everyone should use soft catch there the only traps to use. That is imparting your beliefs to others. I would say have you ever run a 72 hr law? Have you ever trapped out west? Do you trap for fun or profit?
What respect and how much do we owe these animals? I have never been nor ever will be afraid to defend trapping, or that matter my equipment or techniques I use, because in life there is death, some better than others, some not. If I put a mark on a coyotes foot that is 1/2" deep and it holds the coyote well, so be it. We need to deal in a threshold that the majority find acceptable, and with proper education and explanation that threshold is wider based than just the softie.
Do you buy beef,poultry, and pork? Are you then appauld at the slaughter house techniques that are in use? or is it just with wild animals you have the problem of 72 hr checks and what you call over powered traps?
I like my beef, poultry, and pork, the way I like it is dead and fresh. Outside of that, use a technique that is cost effective and timley, and I'm fine with the slaughter techniques used in packing houses. Subject closed on my end.

[Comstock]

If you can run my traps and snares in 24hours,you cant.You cant run them in 3 days.You have a small line and thats ok but I need all the traps i can have working all the time.Maybe I should think that if you cnt set more than 200 traps you should not be allowed to trap,maybe I think that is wrong.stocki dont tho I dont care how you trap you should not care how i trap as long as we are not poachers.