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Post by bblwi on Aug 23, 2016 22:18:40 GMT -6
So what are the murder rates in countries like Australia, England, Germany, France, Italy, Japan, Netherlands, Belgium, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Canada etc. compared to ours on a per 100k basis? As I stated before we have created a fear that you need a gun to be safe in America and if you don't have the funds or the correct background you steal them or buy them black market. How many of the stolen or black market firearms originated from legal production and sales? The legal firearm industry does trickle down into the illegal sale and theft of firearms and yet we feel that those consequences are just collateral damage for the system we choose to have. Sure Chicago has one of the highest murder rates in the World and with the strictest gun control laws but that is a city in the US where we encourage gun ownership be it legal or not. Compare the murder rate to the huge slums in India, China, Indonesia and see if they are equivalent or higher than ours.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 24, 2016 5:36:57 GMT -6
No we have not created to fear in America that one needs a gun to be safe if you're created is this when legal citizens have the right trampled on time and time again they're going to do what human nature says they will do and that is in this case to go out and buy guns in droves to offset what this administration and other liberals are trying to do which is to water down the Second Amendment.
It is a right of every legal man and woman to be able to purchase and secure firearms in this nation if a woman decides she wants to have a concealed carry permit and carry a firearm on herself that is well within the laws in within the rights of the Supreme Court.
Some will see that as fear others will see that as being proactive and knowing that if the situation arises they have the abilitu did protect himself or herself.
The numbers on crimes in foreign countries are there for you plainly to see let's not get into semantics about breaking down per hundred thousand the facts remain in those countries were gun laws to become much stricter a crime is not went down and be in many of those countries violent crimes has actually went up.
I really don't see how hard it can be with some common sense to realize this if your criminal in a country where no person is allowed to bear firearms it just makes pulling off crimes that much easier in that much safer.
I for one applaud are Supreme Court because years ago your local sheriffs department got to play God is as far as who gets a concealed carry permit and who would not get a conceal carry permit. Don't think for a moment that a lot of those sheriff deputies buddies ended up getting permits while other people with legitimate uses for such were denied that is against our Second Amendment rights
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Post by trappnman on Aug 24, 2016 7:11:07 GMT -6
TC you are so quick to goggle and copy and paste- if you really want to take off your binders and set down the koolaid- LOOK UP the nras relation with present gun laws. Because I've posted them multiple times in the past, with links, and if you are too lazy to want to know the truth, thats on you, not me.
I'd think someone that "sold guns for a living" would know what laws are actuallyo n the books, and also if these laws can be enforced.
the vast majority of the public wants background loopholes closed.
so go ahead TC, keep setting those 220s- and future generations can be told when asked why such restrictive gun laws- and the answer is because a small fraction of people, put in so many roadblocks to compromise.
TC- do you even know what Heller vs DC means, or was, or what it meant?
I seriously doubt it.
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Post by PamIsMe on Aug 24, 2016 7:22:23 GMT -6
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Post by bblwi on Aug 24, 2016 8:11:49 GMT -6
Guns are mostly promoted here as a capitalistic revenue stream for many and we have the 2nd amendment that states that is a right and the NRA which is really the marketing agency for increasing sales. With so few hunters and rural residents today as a proportion of our society there was a need to create reasons to buy and own guns and there are very good groups selling the idea that gun ownership is about the only way you can be safe, or your family will be safe and that you can keep the evil government away. It is funny that the government that created the right is considered the enemy of those who promote gun rights. There have been over 20 amendments to the Constitution and there will be more as our society changes culturally I am an advocate of realizing what is workable and doable and not wanting to continue to hold out thinking that no change is the best choice. Most ardent gun advocates are also strong anti federal government people that believe strongly in states and local government rights and that could well be the undoing if we continue to ignore what society is requesting.
Bryce
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Post by redsnow on Aug 24, 2016 8:52:57 GMT -6
I don't understand what you mean "background loopholes".
Anyone that is called in for an NICS check, they ask for all of the person's personal information. Full name, address, SSN, height, weight, gender, DOB, ethnicity, place of birth, valid government issued photo ID. What more could you ask for?
Guess it's about like keeping alcohol out of the hands of minors. I'm sure it happens every day at the ABC store. Some kid shows a $100 bill to an older guy and asks him to buy him a half gallon of vodka, and keep the change. It's illegal, but it happens. Same thing with guns.
I'm not sure where you'd find the stats? But I'll bet you a dollar, more than 90% of the guns used in crimes are stolen. Or reported missing.
The majority of our crimes, in one way or the other involve drugs.
Let me ask what's the solution?
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Post by trappnman on Aug 24, 2016 9:21:01 GMT -6
I have no doubt stolen guns are used in crimes- since 80% of guns stolen, are never recovered according to national statistics. loopholes- this is wiki- but a good read, and unbiased- one good quote "On May 27, 1999 Wayne LaPierre, executive vice president of the National Rifle Association (NRA), testified before the House Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, saying: "We think it is reasonable to provide mandatory, instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show. No loopholes anywhere for anyone." LaPierre has since said that he is opposed to universal background checks.[62][63]:118" en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_show_loopholeI have more "gun nut" friends than perhaps anyone reading this. I'm talking guys that ALWAYS have at least 3 guns on them, guys that own 50.60, more guns. Guys that build guns, and shoot a lot of ammo. The rest of my friends, and many of their wifes, carry at all times. I'm smack in them idle of the gun culture by a fair whack. and what they say- and this surprised me- "I don't care if I have to wait a month to get an ok to purchase, as long as I can buy what I want" they buy all their guns legal- mostly from pawn shops. the get background checked all the time why should any legal gun owner, be against background checks that might stop some of the crime? Read that link
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Post by redsnow on Aug 24, 2016 9:26:12 GMT -6
You folks are firing up this thread this morning!
Looks to me like we're coming up on a double standard.
There is a difference between being "fearful" and being prepared.
How many of you lock your house doors at night? Do you have an alarm system? Motion sensors? A watch dog? Cameras?
It's just like for me, the times that I've been out of town for a week or 2, and the wife and kid here alone. That 12 gauge sitting in the corner, is mighty comforting!
Forget the name of the movie? True Grit, maybe? It was a John Wayne film, talking about keeping rattlesnakes from crossing his lasso, so he'd put it around the lady's bedroll. It's mighty comforting!
We're not fearful, just prepared.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 24, 2016 10:29:36 GMT -6
and that's fine.
but ?
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Post by redsnow on Aug 24, 2016 10:38:31 GMT -6
Interesting read.
Firearm tracing starts at the manufacturer or importer and typically ends at the first private sale regardless if the private seller later sell to an FFL or uses an FFL for background checks.[40] Analyzing data from a report released in 1997 by the National Institute of Justice, fewer than 2% of convicted criminals bought their firearm at a flea market or gun show. About 12% purchased their firearm from a retail store or pawnshop, and 80% bought from family, friends, or an illegal source.[41]
It doesn't happen very often, but I've had folks ask me for an ATF form, and have their buyer fill it out, just so the gun isn't still registered in their name.
Really, that's a good idea.
Just say a gun is used in a crime, if that gun is recovered, and had been recently purchased, say 15 years ago, the ATF will find out where it was purchased, and who signed for it. If the gun's owner sold it, and that person sold it again, and again, then it's off of the books.
Really, everyone should have their gun's make, model and Sn, all on file, for your own information.
I'm surprised that 20% of stolen guns are recovered!
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Post by redsnow on Aug 24, 2016 10:41:08 GMT -6
But what?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 24, 2016 16:33:59 GMT -6
Even if a used gun is sold to anyone with a FFL they are still logged into their books as having received the firearm and from who, before they can dispose of it in another sale as well. So not just newly manufactured buy also used guns bought by someone with an FFL will and must catalog the firearm as well.
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Post by redsnow on Aug 24, 2016 17:11:20 GMT -6
True.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 25, 2016 5:50:50 GMT -6
but what......?
what does your post have anything to do with what I posted?
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Post by redsnow on Aug 29, 2016 8:09:49 GMT -6
I think we got our wires crossed on the 24th, Tman and I were typing at the same time.
Your question about legal gun owners and background checks, I'm fine with the laws today. No problem at all with them.
As far as your friends saying they'd be ok waiting for a month to pick up a gun, with the NICS check in place, there is no need for that today.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 30, 2016 6:28:52 GMT -6
no there is not- and I agree with you 100%.
We both know that the technology exists, but its (the various agencys, states)not connected in a workable form yet. And the reason for that, for the most part, is funding.
but I think it will be.
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Post by bblwi on Aug 30, 2016 13:56:28 GMT -6
The smart gun technology will catch on and sure it may be costly but that may well be the price of the freedom to continue to do all other things as is.
Bryce
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Post by redsnow on Aug 30, 2016 14:49:55 GMT -6
Think we've got our wires crossed again.
The NICS system is up and running now. Don't remember exactly when it first started?
Bryce, I don't understand exactly what you're getting at.
If I want to take the neighbor's boy out squirrel hunting one evening after school, I'll grab my .22 and a hand full of ammo. What kind of "smart gun technology" do we need? My rifle is zeroed in, just shot it the other day!
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Post by bblwi on Aug 31, 2016 19:48:46 GMT -6
You are a bit behind for one who posts a lot of gun related posts. Smart technology is about having a gun programed to be fired by only one person, the trigger mechanism won't work. This would be a good protection device for stolen guns at least. The technology is available, not low cost and not promoted by the gun lobby at all.
Bryce
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Post by redsnow on Sept 1, 2016 12:23:19 GMT -6
I'll tell you right now, that type of bs "technology" won't catch on!
I thought maybe that's what you were getting at. "A one person gun".
If I'm out on the farm and one of my buds want's to take a shot, with my rifle, it'd be useless for him/her. That'll never fly.
Honestly, that idea doesn't make a smidgen of sense to me!
I've been out lots of times, with a couple kids or my buds, and say: "here, try my gun."
A while back, there were 8 or 10 of us up at the camp, hell, we all shot my new gun. Just plinking with a 22. And we'll continue to do so.
As you said above: "I think it'll catch on." Not in our lifetime!
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