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Post by PamIsMe on Aug 21, 2016 23:51:15 GMT -6
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Post by PamIsMe on Aug 22, 2016 0:17:54 GMT -6
It is a societal problem. We live in a gun crazy society, that loves nothing better than violent movies and games. However if gun laws were the same in every state, the background checks on people buying them was even close to 100% accurate, and there was a standardized 2 or 3 day waiting period (heck why not a week) it wouldn't hurt anyone who legitimately wants to buy a gun. In spite of what the Repubs/NRA would have everyone think, the Dem's DO NOT want to confiscate anyone's guns except convicted criminals. We just want to make it a little tougher to buy them. The cry of "Registration, Taxation, Confiscation" has been around for 60+ years, started mainly by the old John Birch Society. Never going to happen! As for Chicago (and other big cities) "Chicago Police have disputed that, saying it is a common misconception that Chicago has the country's strictest gun control, and the department's officials have contended that gang members face worse sanctions from their gangs for losing a gun than they do by the courts for illegally possessing one. Police have also emphasized that most guns used in Chicago crimes were bought outside of the city or state, where regulations are not as strict." As for Indian Reservations, a few of them are doing quite well these days with all the white people giving them money every day in their casino's. As for the others, let's just cut off all federal funding and let 'em starve, problem solved, right? Too bad it isn't that simplistic: www.forbes.com/sites/johnkoppisch/2011/12/13/why-are-indian-reservations-so-poor-a-look-at-the-bottom-1/#2f2f689c337a Pam
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Post by James on Aug 22, 2016 2:55:59 GMT -6
"We just want to make it a little tougher to buy them."
Why should guns be tougher to buy for law-abiding citizens?
Jim
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2016 5:01:13 GMT -6
Pam, a waiting period for a person who is legal to own a firearm why? What is a waiting period going to do to stop Crime?
Buying guns outside of Chicago ok........ Many inner city thugs have never left such, I know plenty of those that where in a prison here that never left KC or within 15 blocks of where they grew up. So the answers then is to make all cities and states use the toughest gun control in the US to reduce gun violence? Then criminals will never be able to get guns? Pure BS nothing more needed. It is not a common misconception , it is fact! You really need better sources than anti gun sites and occupy democrat for your information. All gun laws are available online to see who has what and why.
Not all Indian reservations have casinos and not all those that do have seen the money flow either. Casinos are not making near the money anymore. How is a casino part of the Indian culture? Explain that to me.
No as for the others let's teach them how to fish again and not just feed them fish, because the feeding has clearly not worked, but an oppressed people are ones who keep voting for those that keep the oppression flowing.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 22, 2016 7:28:42 GMT -6
enjoy the whipperwill- I haven't heard one around here for 20 years and more- no more nighthawks either.
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Post by redsnow on Aug 22, 2016 8:23:19 GMT -6
Pam, you're not up to date on gun laws!
If a person is a felon, it's illegal for them to have possession of a firearm. Period.
I'm sure the ATF's gun laws are online, or stop at your local gun shop and tell them you'd like to read over a copy of the "Firearms Transaction Record Part 1. Over the Counter.
Any licensed FFL dealer will have them, and anyone buying a gun will go through an NICS's background check. Far as I know, it should be the same nationwide. Some states do have additional rules and regs, but it all meets ATF's regs.
I think if you'd talk to any licensed ffl dealer, everything is done pretty much by the book. The ATF folks can walk into any dealers shop, at anytime, and ask to see the paperwork.
I don't understand why some folks think that more gun laws would deter criminals. Criminals don't obey laws!
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Post by trappnman on Aug 22, 2016 9:06:17 GMT -6
I don't understand why some folks, are ok with no background checks (except from lic dealers) at gunshows and other avenues.
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Post by redsnow on Aug 22, 2016 12:00:09 GMT -6
Not sure exactly what you mean?
Guns are swapped and sold at yard sales every weekend. Sold between buds, given to the grandkids, traded for labor, or to pay off money owed.
The last public auction that I went to, that had guns, someone there had their FFL, and the buyer did go through an NICS background check, before they took possession.
It's just like all of the fireman "gun bash" things, whoever wins each firearm, will need to fill out the paperwork and go through a NICS check.
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Post by bblwi on Aug 22, 2016 12:27:08 GMT -6
The gun debate on both sides is really just a smoke screen for a lot of issues that our culture and society really don't want to take the time, money and mental shift to make and thus we spend our time polarizing an issue that is one of the many issues that are derived by our basic need to find fault with someone other than ourselves and thus we don't need to work to change issues we don't like or feel that others are getting the better and bigger end of the stick. I feel that guns become the easy fruit for those that die due to crime and for those on the other end of the spectrum it is a bit concerning that our level of trust in others and government is so low that we feel that being armed is our only way to keep our freedoms. I find that fear or need based on a basis of lack of trust in all but oneself and if that is the case then I can see why those with limited means and in dangerous conditions feel the need to steal guns as our society has taught them that that is what you need to do to protect yourself in our culture.
Bryce
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Post by musher on Aug 22, 2016 16:50:09 GMT -6
So ..... no one is going to vote for Alice Cooper?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2016 17:22:17 GMT -6
Tman the idea that guns sales are loose and free is pure BS, sure there are some private sales but the gun show loop hole is a fantasy for the most part. Tables at gun shows have gone up and if your going to part with a gun or two and pay your table cost then your willing to loose a good chunk for doing so, most sellers at a gun show have FFL's and the majority of guns sold are done with a NICS check.
Years a go some would try and get by with some stuff saying they had a few guns to sale sell them and grab more and fill the tables back up, no one doing that anymore as the penalty is to stiff. Under cover people working gun shows all the time.
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Post by bblwi on Aug 22, 2016 18:23:35 GMT -6
That is good to know and hear.
Bryce
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Post by redsnow on Aug 22, 2016 18:48:38 GMT -6
I'd say in a head to head match-up, John Boy and Billy would easily win over Alice Cooper. They all roll some good tunes!
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 22, 2016 18:50:43 GMT -6
Yes Bryce it is and that is what PO.s me on the gun issue, much of what is said is nothing but rhetoric from the whitehouse on the gun issues and Hillary Clinton and why does anyone not know why guns sales have been through the roof for the last period of years? Not because they are gun crazy man they see the writing on the wall by the left so they counter that by buying more of what they are legal to do so.
The number one rising number of gun owners are woman, that is right lots and lots of them buying guns again not because they feel unsafe but because they want to excercise their 2nd amendment rights, you keep telling people long enough they are bad or what they are doing is wrong in YOUR eyes ,mum an nature will tell you they will go out and do that.
This July was an all time record for background checks in the month.
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Post by bblwi on Aug 22, 2016 22:53:34 GMT -6
You are only blaming one side for this and literally just going on about gun ownership and not realizing the major cultural aspect that we have the most stable government on Earth that has some of the most fearful and hateful people living in the world. I look at this issue much different than many of you without a strong and stable government and yes maybe large or a bit too large we may well look like Syria or Somalia without having a government that keeps us safe, and educated. There are guns all over Somalia and Syria and how much freedom and safety do they have? Governments are a key factor in how societies and cultures live and grow. Wait about 10-20 years when all the educated immigrants that come here or want to will head to China as they will have better deals for them and we will try to compete in the global economy with those that own SUVs and Tweet and Face Book, but can't create a computer spreadsheet.
Bryce
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Post by trappnman on Aug 23, 2016 9:03:23 GMT -6
TC cannot be anything but one sided- its his nature. unfortunately, along with that nature, comes a real disregard for the facts.
its like the 220 fight- some like TC say they will set them on a public lands, near trails, cause they can and F everyone else.
then they lose their 220s- and cry, cry, cry.
yet some states, work together for common sense laws, and the 220 still is a viable tool.
TC has zero knowledge of gun laws, and how they can and can not be enforced.
He buys the lies of the NRA- and as such, just keeps setting his 220s in the parking lots.
and it will be rest of us gun owners that suffer
thanks TC- thanks NRA
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 23, 2016 17:21:54 GMT -6
Tman I sold guns for a living I have a great dined standing on guns laws, straw purchases and filling out a 4473 and making many,many nic backgrounds checks and also being present when the ATF has done audits at the store I worked at. As someone who sells guns your are trained to know the laws, as the ATF can pull your licnese if you do things wrong or not know the guns laws. I had the lowest error rate of any gun counter sales person in the store. That is a fact.
Lies of the NRA what are they exactly?
The legal gun owner suffers each and every time, the left tries to pass another law that will have zero outcome with the problem except make the legal gun owner jump through more hoops , those spare the facts. Hence the reason millions and millions of guns have been purchased over the last 7 years.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 23, 2016 17:27:26 GMT -6
Bryce what amendment or constitutional right do somalians have? Also the USA is not solmalia or Syria. We are the freeest nation on earth for now anyhow. That could change.
There is no room for movement anymore for me and millions of others on gun rights or taking away more freedoms. Enforce what we have and leave legal gun owners alone. Or watch gun sales keep breaking records, the people have spoken with their pocket books and freedoms while they still have them. Which is legal under our laws in this country.
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Post by bblwi on Aug 23, 2016 18:38:08 GMT -6
Yes we are the freest but you did not answer the question. Is it due to our government upholding our Constitution or the fact that free people can do what they want. In Somalia you are free to do as you want and I bet you don't have a waiting period to buy a gun or fill out forms either yet your life is lived in fear. I don't think you want to get into the argument about which countries are the safest as many that are have very strong gun control laws and many have high levels of ethnic diversity.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 23, 2016 20:23:33 GMT -6
It is both, the constitution is their to protect freedoms, not to be washed away by special,interest groups. Safest countries I would get into that as much of that is BS as well. www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/guns-in-other-countries/So do not think for a moment than I am buying because some countries with no amendment rights forced their people into strict gun laws that crime is below that of the US with many,many more guns than any other nation. Not factual what so ever. Again Somalia and compairing that to the US as far as gun laws and the use of guns? Come on now. If your in Austraila or other countries and a guy pulls out a knife or a gun what recourse does the law abiding person have? We have less crime because we have added meat to,our conceal carry laws in this nation. These are areas the left media never reports on, but they happen every day. My wife who is not a so called gun nut , went to an active shooter class put on by a law enforcement officer and one who is well versed in the realm of guns and terrorist 3 hours of instruction on how to be aware of your surroundings no matter where you are and the benefits of an armed legal society plays in that. He has taught many police, and schools on the idea of what to do and thre thought process of an active shooter in your area. Another area he covered and opened many eyes again not talked about but the left media is threatknowledge.org. You will learn more about ISIS there reading the report ISIS:the threat to the untied states than any other place. What she learned in that class could not only save lives at the school but also makes her more informed in any given situation as well.
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