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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 12, 2015 19:37:01 GMT -6
Nope because too many like to use words like life isn't life until it is born outside of the womb.
As stated the unborn child has no voice. Many people as they age can write a will and medical notice as to what will happen, the unborn gets none of that.
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Post by bblwi on Nov 12, 2015 20:09:13 GMT -6
So for those of us that were drafted ( not having a choice if we wanted to be legal) we as adults then if we wanted to be a decision maker and plan our destiny should have deserted or went to Canada and not served. I don't buy into your argument about the fetus not having a voice. We differ on where life in a human social society starts. You have stated why you felt great about your grandmother and you should but none of that socialization had developed within a fetus while not engaged with other human contact. If a person or family would feel they are not able, capable or willing to provide the proper social environment for a child then options we have available may be in the best interest of our society as a whole. We may make more progress in the fate of the unborn by having more restrictive programs that pay for children not part of better social environments.
Bryce
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RShaw
Demoman...
Posts: 147
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Post by RShaw on Nov 12, 2015 21:46:56 GMT -6
And many did just that.
Did I just read that?
Why involve programs? An alternative is already in place. Adoption. The waiting list is endless.
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Post by PamIsMe on Nov 13, 2015 2:15:53 GMT -6
"An alternative is already in place. Adoption. The waiting list is endless."
Not necessarily. I know of several families that have adopted kids from China and Korea the past several years. Guess why? There is no drug and alcohol problem in those countries like we have here and they have many healthy homeless children living in orphanages. The other reason is that there really aren't that many babies available for adoption here because girls/women (who don't have abortions) are choosing to keep them and raise them as single Moms.
Sorry to hear about your miscarriage TC, a wanted baby is a terrible loss and some women never really get over it. My friend had a different reaction, she said she thought her family was more upset than she was, and that she hadn't felt pregnant so she didn't have the great feeling of loss that some do.
I just don't understand why all the concern about an survivable fetus but hardly any empathy, moral support and the begrudging of financial support for those who do make the pro-life choice. Those women are called all kinds of names and their kids stigmatized from the day they are born. Free birth control would be a good start, heaven forbid Planned Parenthood should continue to hand it out and do free pre-natal care.
Cheers, Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 13, 2015 5:42:53 GMT -6
That was in 2003 and we then had a great son one year later! He is now 11 and has become a great person. Kind,loving and caring and deeply rooted in his faith. He spent some of his birthday money on a cross necklace from our church gift shop. He is also my trapping buddy.
Again it all comes back to when life begins nothing more or less.
Along with having a child comes great responsibility to care for and provide for such. Many young single mothers these days,not near the shock and awe it was even 30 years ago. Trying to provide and expecting others to do such are two totally different outlooks on life. The number of children born in the US is down, so these single mothers are not that ones taxing the system, that falls onto others.
I have no problem with some getting help and doing a good job trying to raise a child, the ones who do not want to account for their children should give them up for adoption would be better off for all involved.
I have 3 cousins all who gave birth prior to their 18 birthday, those kids are now grown adults and they have had kids of their own now. They relied on family and working to he,p them out. My one cousin was married at 17 and that was 31 years ago and they are still married.
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Post by bblwi on Nov 13, 2015 11:03:45 GMT -6
Many do and through our LSS we have helped many in our church adopt. The poor environment for many children is not a new deal for America. There were many, many children born out of wedlock in our past history and there were thousands of orphanages throughout the land that served those that were unwanted. So many don't like the options we have in place today. Well that is part of change and change is constant although it may not be best in the eyes of all, many or some.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 13, 2015 20:37:42 GMT -6
Change for the sake of it is not always good. When we lose the ability to grieve or feel a loss of an unborn child, I have a very hard time believing we do not loose out on other feelings and emotions on other life changing things as well.
All change does not make our societies better, just many times easier and easier is not always best either. Even thiugh some convince themselves that it is all OK.............
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Post by bblwi on Nov 13, 2015 22:24:14 GMT -6
You imply that decisions to abort a pregnancy are made with no feelings by those involved. I don't think it is your right to interpret what our how people making those choices should or should not feel. Sure you can voice your opinion and that is just what it is an opinion. There are many that don't feel necessary to take "other peoples inventories". Some of us work hard not to judge others and with limited information or understanding as well.
Bryce
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Post by PamIsMe on Nov 13, 2015 22:58:09 GMT -6
"..the ones who do not want to account for their children should give them up for adoption would be better off for all involved." At the risk of sounding sexist, that's easy for a man to say not having gone through 9 months of pregnancy and childbirth.
The issue is not when life begins, it is, does the government (or a group of people) have the right to take away a woman's legal choices?
TC your son sounds like a good responsible kid. Unfortunately, not all are like that. The reason there are single Mom's is that there are so many boys/men who won't take on that great responsibility.
What we should be worried about is all the kids in this country who are abused, beaten, neglected, and living in dire poverty. In my mind there's a strong correlation between boys that join gangs,and girls that have their babies and keep them. All of them want to be a part of something and feel loved and wanted by someone.
Cheers, Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 14, 2015 6:28:03 GMT -6
Bryce judging? It is human nature look at the murder rates today compaired to years back? Those have changed and as we have more of something the feelings toward such wain and they almost become common place. What change can do is, effect people's thoughts on values as things become more accepted by a portion of the population.
Yes some kids get a raw deal but that comes back to parenting in many cases and why more kids should be given up for adoption in this country. Yet we all have the ability to make our lives better even in the smallest of ways. I hope my 4 kids make the best decisions they can, but now 3 of them are over 18 they get to make choices in life some will be much harder than others no doubt.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 28, 2015 12:50:38 GMT -6
I got thinking the liberials have issues with our background check system, yet most are fine and dandy allowing 1,000's of Syrian refugees into,our country LOL.
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Post by trappnman on Nov 28, 2015 13:05:55 GMT -6
GW, if he would have gotten the SC ruling in his favor, would have- for the first time EVER- had the 2nd defined as APPLYING TO MILITIAS ONLY. Now think carefully on that and what it means. the gun rights issue has always been based on the idea that the 2nd did NOT apply to organized militias only, and that it applied to all citizens.
and yet no outcry at the time, and defense now- oh my as they say
as far as abortion- the rule here has always been we leave the issue alone- I haven't had time t follow stuff, or it would have been nipped in the bud. My PERSONAL opinion is a fetus is not a person until it is born, but that's me, and everyone is free to make up their own mind as there is no right answer nor wrong answer. So, let it be. NO ONE is my moral superior, nor am I any others conscience
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 28, 2015 18:04:21 GMT -6
Yeh ok Gwb wanted to allow only our military to have guns ok?.............
He wanted this Supreme Court to define such as did the original 8 plaintiffs in the case. This was a land mark decision that has really added teeth to the 2nd amendment and helped keep,our rights, but again the argument of gun control versus allowing all of the refugees in our country is still an issue for the left.
Where is the back ground checks on all these people? Yet I want to buy a handgun I go through a check system? I find that funny and sad in a way.........
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Post by trappnman on Nov 29, 2015 9:30:45 GMT -6
refugees- do you know how many refugees come into the country, and how they are vetted?
I'm thinking not- because if you did, you wouldn't be posting as you are.
so you admit- the biggest assault on the 2nd was under a recent Rep president and a rep justice dept.
keep that in mind
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Nov 29, 2015 15:02:58 GMT -6
Tell me how all these Syrians are vetted please? They have no real,system as many do not have ID and we have 1,000's of them comming in those are facts. Otherwise pint me to the info stating exactly how these people are all vetted.
The Supreme Court did their job and in Fact made the gun laws looser in many states with their decision. Look at their voting on the 5-4 ruling says it all.
If the left had more power the ruling would have went another way!
Easy for any president to try and make points when it comes down to a Supreme Court decision.
People must understand if they want their freedoms protected then voting in a president is far more important than my guy or gal won. Far deeper than that as we know.
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Post by bblwi on Nov 30, 2015 17:25:50 GMT -6
So you are saying that freedom (your words) are a matter of politics and individuals and not via Constitution or laws? I don't think you want to go down that road in modern day politics. The demographics don't favor a rural, white majority, hunting society any more and the routes and tactics taken by those that want those rules and lifestyles to control demonstrate the need that a few have to do to control the masses. That in many ways is living on borrowed time and I don't like the my way the high way as the only way of protecting freedoms that have been available for 230 years put into the hands of those who suffer from limited scope and view of our society and changing culture.
Bryce
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Post by PamIsMe on Nov 30, 2015 18:09:20 GMT -6
"...again the argument of gun control versus allowing all of the refugees in our country is still an issue for the left."
If you want to use that as a parallel then how about the opposite. Gun advocates are against background checks because one nutcase pulls off mass murder and heaven forbid we should penalize all gun owners. But, they want background checks on all Muslim immigrants in the event one nutcase could be a terrorist, therefore penalizing all of them.
One is a purely political issue and the other is a humanitarian issue.
Pam
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RShaw
Demoman...
Posts: 147
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Post by RShaw on Nov 30, 2015 23:03:01 GMT -6
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Post by PamIsMe on Dec 1, 2015 0:58:21 GMT -6
Interesting video.
Cheers Pam
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Dec 1, 2015 6:17:21 GMT -6
No Pam they are both political. Our duty comes to country first and foremost and many would argue the safety of our people is at risk with allowing many,many of these refugees into our country from a region that has had issues with our way of life.
Not to mention we are 17 trillion in debt and willing to take on how much more for these 1,000's of refugees? How long will they stay here? What real vetting process do we have in place? Are they going to become working members of our country or not? How can they work without some documentation? Who will make such? What is the true cost and risk of having these people here?
I don't see many trying to relax the gun check law we have now, the opposite is true! Those on the left want even stricter gun control laws.
Bryce the Supreme Court has spoken on th 2nd amendment the rest is purely political in nature. Like AR ban and magazine ban by Bill Clinton over turned by GEorge Bush. Anyone with common sense knew this would have little to NO effect on gun violence but more a pay back for votes. Again we still have a state like California that likes to limit magazine size and thinks it will help solve gun violence issues it does not, just adds more cost to manufactures and what they can and cannot ship to the state of California.
No mention of how quick one can change out a magazine in a pistol or rifle. 10,15.17, 19 really what is the difference? Less than 3 seconds and another magazine can be in most firearms.
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