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Post by trappnman on Jan 8, 2015 17:53:59 GMT -6
I'm not a non believer- I just think that one should be aware of hypocrisy & contradictions. Didn't take me long to see that the nuns merely parroted information, and that much of what they said, was things like "out of sight, out of mind" compared with "Absence makes the heart grow fonder" where my mind said "huh?" and I learned to think for myself concerning my faith. trust me in this, I might or might not have stated at one time had 7 close relatives monks priests and nuns and you can imagine I've had many a discussion with them about things we have been discussing- and oddly, non of them were as close minded as it appears you are (again, kudos to the nuns, they did good!)
and I understand what mutually exclusive means- if you think it is not, so be it
For example- the gospels are said to be Gods words so let me ask you a direct question- do you believe the gospels are God's words?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 8, 2015 18:43:13 GMT -6
The gospels are writings of gods ministry to the people. The Roman Catholic Church the word of god includes scriptures and canon law, Magisterium. Not everything in the church is literal by itself in the church, there is also the spiritual portion as well in scripture.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 8, 2015 20:27:50 GMT -6
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Post by James on Jan 8, 2015 21:08:00 GMT -6
So does your Pope believe in water-boarding?
What part of Catholic doctrine were you relying on when you said torture was no big deal?
"My thoughts on that issue is who cares, no pun but water under the bridge on this for me, information was extracted and war is well war." (From your post on p. 1 of this thread)
Jim
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 9, 2015 6:00:04 GMT -6
Jim that is me exercising my free will. Yet we read Deuteronomy 19:21
And thine eyes shall not pity; life'shall go for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 9, 2015 8:01:40 GMT -6
and I thought the teachings of Jesus, were compassion for the poor, for the weary, for the troubled?
odd how there was a.....right turn....away from that
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Post by trappnman on Jan 9, 2015 8:39:51 GMT -6
TC- you avoided my question- it didn't take a paragraph- its yes or no- Gospels God's words or not?
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 9, 2015 17:25:16 GMT -6
Tamn there is compassion for all those you listed but there is also a price to pay for taking of a life, an arm, a leg etc. The bible teaches us not take more than what was taken. No excessive force but you think because the bible states an eye for an eye that their is no compassion? plenty of it for sure.
Tman the small paragraph as we're your question in regards to scripture and the Roman Catholic belief. it is a is of things not just scripture. Some of it gods words and other things come to make up the Roman Catholic religion beliefs.The scriptures are written as gods word and also some recounts of his ministry while,on earth as "man"
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 9, 2015 17:26:58 GMT -6
Jesus had great compassion by dying on the cross for sinners.
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Post by James on Jan 9, 2015 18:53:57 GMT -6
The eye-for-an-eye business is from the Old Testament. Jesus came along later and said to turn the other cheek. Doesn't sound like approval of torture to me.
Jim
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 9, 2015 19:50:32 GMT -6
Jim I'm the Old Testament still based on God and thanks for letting me know that was prior to Jesus The Old Testament in parts is still used in the roman catholic religon. You see it as torture our govt at the time did not see it as such. Maybe water boarding might have saved the 12 dead people in France? Who knows as one of the people,involved was let go from Guantanamo as well. I see what happened on 9/11 as terror innocent people doing there daily thing and then dead for the only reason of shock and awe.
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Post by bblwi on Jan 9, 2015 20:32:42 GMT -6
I find it very interesting that you state that "parts of the Old Testament" are used in the Roman Catholic Religion today. It would be eye opening and interesting for us to read your post on which parts of the Old Testament are utilized or followed and which parts are not. If you believe that cutting and pasting the old testament to suit your needs or principles is the way it was done then that explains a lot as to how you interpret events and how you feel justified to judge others. I don't own a Catholic Bible. I use my New King James version to get most of the poetic aspects of scripture. I don't know how many old testament books are not in the Roman Catholic Bible, but I can easily ask as our neighbor is a Priest.
Bryce
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 9, 2015 21:38:51 GMT -6
After looking it seems the Protestant 's are the one who leave out portions of the Old Testament as well as Catholic bibles today leave out First Esdras, Second Esdras, Epistle of Jeremiah, Susanna, Bel and the Dragon, Prayer of Manasseh, Prayer of Azariah, and Laodiceans are not today considered part of the Catholic apocrypha. Even though they are part of the Old Testament. Cutting or pasting to fit me Bryce. I would expect you to read a King James Bible as that on closely matches your religious beliefs. I think any bible one would read is a good one. The Catholic Church likes the revised standard version and others as well due to it being more easier to read than some others, because language has changed over all these years.
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Post by James on Jan 9, 2015 21:47:58 GMT -6
It's easier to talk the talk than to walk the walk. Jesus said what he said, and you look for excuses not to follow him.
Jim
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jan 9, 2015 21:54:46 GMT -6
Thanks Jim I will remember that on my day of reckoning. Think our military soldiers think the same way as you? They are not following Jesus when they defend our freedoms and beliefs?
I'm done as we meaning "me" and a few others have gotten so far off the original topic we could debate religion for 100 more pages and the end results? I see no change.........
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Post by James on Jan 9, 2015 22:18:24 GMT -6
I thought we were merging back to the original thread topic.
I, a non-believer, am more willing to follow true Christian doctrine than you are.
You didn't answer when I asked you if you think Christ would hold the water bucket, either.
Jim
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Post by bblwi on Jan 9, 2015 23:09:08 GMT -6
The new King James does not use the 1600s language. That is why I use that one along with the RVSV which our ELCA uses as its main Biblical source. So if we are debating what man has included, changed, or eliminated it sure shows that we as mankind have really altered the Message of God to fit our fancies. That is why I have chosen to not get too wrapped up in religious policy and work to find a strong spirituality which is less manipulated by man be they reformers, saints etc.
Bryce
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Jan 12, 2015 19:58:46 GMT -6
So what happened to no meat on Fridays? Jim Some of us still practice it james and some us still go to latin masses. It could be argued that much of the recent problems in the Catholic Church stem from the liberalization that came from Vatican II. The use of the teachings of the old testament vs the new is what tends to pull me away from the GOP.
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Post by trappnman on Jan 13, 2015 8:36:58 GMT -6
Bryce, I agree. The view of the church, and certainly the writings in the gospels, have changed so many times, the original words were long ago lost. In a way it reminds me of a story-
a guy was going to buy Geo Washington's axe, the very one he cut down the cherry tree with. Of course, as the seller told him- it wasn't the original head, and the handle had been replaced a time or two.
I very much agree with this- That is why I have chosen to not get too wrapped up in religious policy and work to find a strong spirituality which is less manipulated by man be they reformers, saints etc.
steven, I tend to agree with your assessment as well- I actually took two years of latin, in order to be able to understand the latin of the mass. Going to church was never the same for me when they switched to the English mass.
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Post by bblwi on Jan 13, 2015 20:18:29 GMT -6
I am very active in my church Steve, but mostly from a strong community service aspect and the fact that I lead Bible studies where we talk a lot about how the church fits into todays world. Being an ELCA Lutheran church we are a very moderate church but have members that reach across the whole range of very conservative to quite liberal. At least I belong to a church that has that tolerance and also willing to take on those discussions.
Bryce
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