Post by trappnman on Mar 22, 2012 10:49:41 GMT -6
jim- thinking about your visual cues concerning dead piles-
and thinking back, I almost never see birds on dead piles. Seems odd, but thinking back over my locations, if it happens, it happens very rarely.
now carcasses like coyote, fox, coon (and don't ever let anyone tell you coyotes don't eat coon- I watched them eat coon carcasses all winter) you bet- I constantly see eagles and crows get up from them as I run the line- but not dead piles.
Now, I'm not there 24/7, but if much visitation, I'd see it happen occasionally.
I'm not beginning to say its the norm all over the country, but here it does seem to be true.
Interesting to me in any case.
I personally feel that its the smell that draws them in, esp when you consider the multiple areas in which they come from.
and keep in mind, that I believe deadpiles are attraction points, but not necessarily stall out points.
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regarding the bales- the sand road runs between high grass hay fields/pastures with plenty of small critters. Plenty of hunting area if that's what they want when on the road- but they aren't hunting, they are travel ling.
The road is, in my mind, an "unsafe' area. It gets plenty of traffic between the two brothers farms it runs between. plenty of tracks, and with sand, wind gives you a fresh palette most days, so one can see the tracks are regular-
so, tracks, regular tracks, and scat- should have been an ideal location according to the belief of set where there are tracks, esp coming and going tracks.
So I had a constant stream of coyotes going by my sets, yet they PAID NO ATTENTION to my sets.
Why?
2 years, 2 different locations on that sand road- 1 coyote.
then this past year- using my new found knowledge of how they work things, why and where- taking all that into account, I found an area that ALLOWED them to stall out- an area where they felt safe, where their defenses were down- and now, with fewer sets (but the same lures, sets, etc) the response was first check apparent.
I think the major thing we (or at least I) take from these studies- is simple on one level, and that is that where (and yes how) the set is made, makes all the difference in the world as to how the coyotes reactions would be. that in some areas, albeit areas with tracks and scat, coyotes simply are not in the mood to have a high %, work your set.
simple enough, right?
but then it gets "complex" to a degree in that we need to figure out where these areas are.
I pointed out earlier that in the coyote study I participated in, I already had some of these true stall out areas but with my limited knowledge of behaviors, I could only make the connection tied to PHYSICAL features, and that's what I tried to duplicate in picking new areas.
It worked to a degree, simply because yes, physical features ARE part of the equation but are only a part of the equation.
the studies provide the other clues- and while it would be nice to have 1080 lay it all out in A, B, C type directions, that's not going to happen..........
but if you really are interested in becoming a better, more efficient coyote trapper, then I don't see why anyone wouldn't look at the research and apply it to the trapline.
I've taken trannys and engines apart, with nothing but basic knowledge-but the Internet sure is nice, because today, the info is available to all and it draws on tons of experience other than my own. All making my job easier, and more efficient.
Why do so many trappers, ignore research, and even go so far as to say research results, don't apply?
INNATE behaviors- you have to take THAT to the bank. By the very definition of such.
Why not USE those innate behaviors? Why not draw on the knowledge of those more knowledgeable?
Why invent the wheel over and over?
I'm a little disappointed, that more aren't involved with these discussions- reading the studies, thinking about them in depth like jim has done, discussing what they say, applying them to the line etc.
1080 posted an abstract, and this is something we all should think about-
The few data that were available were usually ignored or simply overlooked because of their seemingly superficial relevance to the problems at hand. However, there is increasing evidence that information stemming from behavioral/ecological and population studies, such as the way in which food resources influence social organization and how carrion attracts coyotes to sites where they might otherwise not venture, may be useful in control programs
and thats all I'm trying to do personally on the line, and in these discussions- to make every set I make, working WITH those innate behaviors and social patterns we KNOW exist.
when panning for gold, you don't try every stream or creek you come across- you have keys, based on research and studies, showing where gold is most likely to be (macro location) and where on that particular stream its most likely to be (micro location).
So if you are staying out of this because you feel you don't have the knowledge to discuss- then ask questions...no one is going to disrespect you for lack of knowledge.
I'll end with a favorite quote of mine.....
If he doesn't know, and doesn't know he doesn't know- he is asleep, wake him
If he doesn't know, and knows he doesn't know- he is a student teach him
If he knows, and doesn't know he knows- he is a fool, shun him.
If he knows and knows he knows- he is a wise man, follow him.
Me? I don't know, and know I don't know- but I'm doing everything I can, TO know.
and thinking back, I almost never see birds on dead piles. Seems odd, but thinking back over my locations, if it happens, it happens very rarely.
now carcasses like coyote, fox, coon (and don't ever let anyone tell you coyotes don't eat coon- I watched them eat coon carcasses all winter) you bet- I constantly see eagles and crows get up from them as I run the line- but not dead piles.
Now, I'm not there 24/7, but if much visitation, I'd see it happen occasionally.
I'm not beginning to say its the norm all over the country, but here it does seem to be true.
Interesting to me in any case.
I personally feel that its the smell that draws them in, esp when you consider the multiple areas in which they come from.
and keep in mind, that I believe deadpiles are attraction points, but not necessarily stall out points.
----------------------------------
regarding the bales- the sand road runs between high grass hay fields/pastures with plenty of small critters. Plenty of hunting area if that's what they want when on the road- but they aren't hunting, they are travel ling.
The road is, in my mind, an "unsafe' area. It gets plenty of traffic between the two brothers farms it runs between. plenty of tracks, and with sand, wind gives you a fresh palette most days, so one can see the tracks are regular-
so, tracks, regular tracks, and scat- should have been an ideal location according to the belief of set where there are tracks, esp coming and going tracks.
So I had a constant stream of coyotes going by my sets, yet they PAID NO ATTENTION to my sets.
Why?
2 years, 2 different locations on that sand road- 1 coyote.
then this past year- using my new found knowledge of how they work things, why and where- taking all that into account, I found an area that ALLOWED them to stall out- an area where they felt safe, where their defenses were down- and now, with fewer sets (but the same lures, sets, etc) the response was first check apparent.
I think the major thing we (or at least I) take from these studies- is simple on one level, and that is that where (and yes how) the set is made, makes all the difference in the world as to how the coyotes reactions would be. that in some areas, albeit areas with tracks and scat, coyotes simply are not in the mood to have a high %, work your set.
simple enough, right?
but then it gets "complex" to a degree in that we need to figure out where these areas are.
I pointed out earlier that in the coyote study I participated in, I already had some of these true stall out areas but with my limited knowledge of behaviors, I could only make the connection tied to PHYSICAL features, and that's what I tried to duplicate in picking new areas.
It worked to a degree, simply because yes, physical features ARE part of the equation but are only a part of the equation.
the studies provide the other clues- and while it would be nice to have 1080 lay it all out in A, B, C type directions, that's not going to happen..........
but if you really are interested in becoming a better, more efficient coyote trapper, then I don't see why anyone wouldn't look at the research and apply it to the trapline.
I've taken trannys and engines apart, with nothing but basic knowledge-but the Internet sure is nice, because today, the info is available to all and it draws on tons of experience other than my own. All making my job easier, and more efficient.
Why do so many trappers, ignore research, and even go so far as to say research results, don't apply?
INNATE behaviors- you have to take THAT to the bank. By the very definition of such.
Why not USE those innate behaviors? Why not draw on the knowledge of those more knowledgeable?
Why invent the wheel over and over?
I'm a little disappointed, that more aren't involved with these discussions- reading the studies, thinking about them in depth like jim has done, discussing what they say, applying them to the line etc.
1080 posted an abstract, and this is something we all should think about-
The few data that were available were usually ignored or simply overlooked because of their seemingly superficial relevance to the problems at hand. However, there is increasing evidence that information stemming from behavioral/ecological and population studies, such as the way in which food resources influence social organization and how carrion attracts coyotes to sites where they might otherwise not venture, may be useful in control programs
and thats all I'm trying to do personally on the line, and in these discussions- to make every set I make, working WITH those innate behaviors and social patterns we KNOW exist.
when panning for gold, you don't try every stream or creek you come across- you have keys, based on research and studies, showing where gold is most likely to be (macro location) and where on that particular stream its most likely to be (micro location).
So if you are staying out of this because you feel you don't have the knowledge to discuss- then ask questions...no one is going to disrespect you for lack of knowledge.
I'll end with a favorite quote of mine.....
If he doesn't know, and doesn't know he doesn't know- he is asleep, wake him
If he doesn't know, and knows he doesn't know- he is a student teach him
If he knows, and doesn't know he knows- he is a fool, shun him.
If he knows and knows he knows- he is a wise man, follow him.
Me? I don't know, and know I don't know- but I'm doing everything I can, TO know.