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Post by calvin on Aug 13, 2010 17:58:02 GMT -6
I like the look of the pan for mink/rats. Had a few of the old victors that worked well for both. I wonder if it would be a pro or con for coon, though. Hmmmm. Might have to try some, now.
Can be difficult to run a multi species trap and get them just the way you like them for everything: I run a nightlatch with a bent dog for mink (decreased tension). They are all done the same which is Not ideal for coon. So when just operating for coon, I run full dog past the nightlatch. Still light tension but more pan fall. Seems to work better on the coon. I also bend the tips up and add a swivel right close to the trap so when on a drowner I can still use the long chain traps by doubling the chain and just clip it short to the drowner. Unclip the drowner and still have a long chain for rats. Not a perfect system but the best I/ve come up with thus far for multi species setup. (Coon/mink/rats).
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Aug 13, 2010 18:14:07 GMT -6
You are correct calvin, I also dont believe that you can adjust a trap that is ideal for mink and muskrats and still be ideal for coons. So basically its adjust for the smaller critters and accept the drawbacks when facing coon.
Personally I aint worried about coons, be a long time before I have the option of trapping them with any seriousness. You know more than 75 to 100 a year.
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Post by Maineman on Aug 14, 2010 7:14:50 GMT -6
except for making a short notch, I found the dukes to be as trapline ready as any trap IN the 1.5, 1.75 models. only have a few of the bigger traps, and can't say I like them but thats just looking at them and occasional use, so cannot comment on general trapline readiness. Steve, do you 0nly set your 1.5 dukes in the water (for rats, mink, and coon) ? If that is the case, then I would agree that one could get away with minimum modifications to a Duke 1.5 If you are putting them on land then they need more work than stated...I'm a Duke fan but I know their limitations... Dave Z
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Post by trappnman on Aug 14, 2010 7:45:34 GMT -6
you dont they lay like this, plus there will be 1/8 of travel front to back with the dog. That will allow you pan position to vary.
that way works, but with a short notch and a squared dog tip, there is ZERO travel as descibed- the pan/dog sit tight, no wobble, ZERO creep
No, they do not need more work on land. Why would they? what problem do they have? what "modification" am I missing that you think i'm loosing coon on? I don't "loose" coon- by going with the trap I like, by eliminated what I consider popular brands that are substandard in holding coon IMO, by using the methods I do, sets, etc- I don't get enough snapped land coon traps to spit at in a year-
I doubt seriously if there is anyone reading this, that uses Duke 1.5s on land for coon more than I do.
If there was a reason to modifiy them, I'd have done it- but again, the short notch and squared dog do all that is needed. I have zero problems with the traps thusly, so why on earth would I do anything to them? for what purpose other than one thinks it needs to be done?
the "high pan" is a classic example. bend it, shape it, do whatever- end result- it doesn't matter where it counts, and thats on the line.
but thats not the point - the POINT is there are at least TWO ways to eleviate the concern of movment on pan/dog.
and a few secs with a dremel, and for me, problem solved.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 14, 2010 8:07:04 GMT -6
one rule of thumb I have seen thru the years with coyotes at least those that debate the needed modifications, is any trap that can be debated on needed mods aren't like the cadillac traps as there is nothing to mod on them. example (sterlings,Jakes).
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Aug 14, 2010 8:51:19 GMT -6
Whats your definition of "short notched". Personally I dont like a too short notched trap. I have come to the conclusion(whether rightly or wrongly) that by giving the trap more notch inside a muskrat hut my backfoot catches rise exponentially. So I like to give it at least a third of the shank maybe more. I also dont like this. Is it necessary to take it out? Not really but I dont like it. Takes all of 2 seconds to tighten the dog eye, maybe 3. Whats the big deal. Any time bob or I talk about wasted time at a set you say whats the big deal. Well this is a one time adjustment that lasts forever, 2 or 3 seconds at the most, well maybe 5. Do it if you want to, do it if you dont.
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Post by calvin on Aug 14, 2010 9:37:38 GMT -6
Short notch or long notch. I know we all have our preferences here. I can't make a short, or hair trigger work for me no matter what the species. Not right or wrong...just me. I use more notch (nightlatched in) on all my traps weather it be mink or coyotes. "I" get higher catches this way comparatively.
Years ago, I bought the Charles Dobbins trap modification video. He uses the "No pan drop before trap goes off" method in that video. Obviously worked for him. Sure didn't for me...The animals I lost that year... dang. I often times wonder how something can work so well for one only to have the opposite effect for another.
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Post by robertw on Aug 14, 2010 11:14:47 GMT -6
TC39, You keep touting your Sterlings and Jakes.........but have you ever ran into a hard charging professional trapper that was flat stacking up the animals that ONLY used Sterlings and Jakes??
Ever see anyone win the Coyote Trapping contest dealing with the theft using ONLY Sterlings and Jakes??
How about trapping on the Navajo Reservatrion using only Sterlings and Jakes??
What good is a trap if your so scared of having it stolen that your afraid to set it??
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Post by garman on Aug 14, 2010 11:37:39 GMT -6
tc makes me wonder...cause I am one that loves sterlings, just like them they work well with me, but you keep speaking about them, I could never use them nor would I for coon, rats, etc. You also speak about being in IA at one time trapping coon, to me dukes have proven themselves to me for those animals, the only other was a northwoods 1 1/2. But in IA or other high theft areas a duke can be stolen and who cares, and very little mods needed or wanted on it. File the dog and go for me, or tighten pan if needed. So I guess what I am saying there is more out there than yotes and bottomline also is like Robert stated, I love my sterlings but high theft areas man I still pull out a #4 monty, etc.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 14, 2010 13:25:09 GMT -6
I have little worries about theft in my area and when in Iowa I set them in places theft was of little concern, lost 3 in like 20+ years. Theft areas I use my #3 bridgers more tolerable but my theft rate on them is very low as well.
If I was running alot on public ground for fur then I would use other traps but still doesn't take away from how well the sterlings and jakes perform. The point is they need nothing done to them to make them top notch.
I agree sterlings and jakes are not a coon,mink trap would never use them for such.
If I was back in Iowa I would be running a few hundred snares again as I'm out less than 1.00 each if stolen and again out of a few hundred I might have lost 6-10 each year.
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Post by bobwendt on Aug 14, 2010 13:46:24 GMT -6
calvin, the explanation is juist what you think it is. robert, I`ve never owned a jake or a sterling, and will stack my catch against anyone. . not just catch, but catch/time, catch / mile catch /anything next to anyones ,dead or alive. and the money part, I pencil it all out very accurately. and jake/sterling don`t fit in my calculations as a good deal for me. the taxpayers do not buy my traps. nor can I afford to trap as a hobby that is subsidised by my "real" job. big difference.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 14, 2010 13:50:59 GMT -6
calvan, a short nortch shouldn't make it a hair trigger- in fact, in increases trigger tension if notched and dog squared off- its a tight trigger- just zero creep
and I agree with TC on this- both the jakes and sterlings ARE top of the line coyote traps-
in so far as all the bells and whistles and neat little things, plus quality built-
but chrome doesn't add coyotes.. any comparable size and powered trap, is going to do about the same in the field. might take more dicking around with some other traps- but the end result is the measure is it not?
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Post by trappnman on Aug 14, 2010 14:32:28 GMT -6
Im not the one saying its a big deal- I'm saying its not a big deal-
this thread, once it got on dukes, went from what a wonderful trap it is, to bring out the hammer and forge we need to do a make over.
its not a big deal, as you say, and by that token, not doing so is no big deal either. We agree.
I have no wobble and creep with my notch system, thus, further mods are uneeded.
Short notching is just my preferred method. Probably takes longer my way, actually, I'm sure it does-
would a short notch be a concern in a rat house?
don't know- always set ls in the day.
I wouldn't set a 1.5 without, a short notch. 1.75 either as a matter of fact, I'm that convinced at the difference it makes.
a short notch to me is 1/16 or less-
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 14, 2010 15:27:07 GMT -6
I have plenty of my own sterlings and the jakes I have I bought not someone else. I like having high end traps that never need much tinkering. I would look the same for any other trap I would use. Coons I would like to get into them for fun, yep fun and a few dollars and am looking at either the montana 1.5 LL with jaw guards or the bridger 1.5's with the pinch pans.
No different than beaver I like traps that have high catch rates even with less than ideal holds, better than finding snapped traps IMO.
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Post by trappnman on Aug 14, 2010 17:23:16 GMT -6
which is EXACTLY why I use the dukes on coon over bridgers et al
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Post by calvin on Aug 14, 2010 17:34:27 GMT -6
TC, test a dozen of the Duke 1.5s in the mix. You might be surprised. I was. I tested them against the Bridger 1.5s and my other traps. like said, I only own Dukes in the 1.5 now...and I would have bet money against that happening.
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Aug 14, 2010 17:54:02 GMT -6
I used to short notch everything.
Couple years ago I had a bunch of coils taken out of my shed, so this winter I had brand new traps and short notched ones.
After about 900 plus rats taken in the houses using both it was quite evident to me that loss was higher in the short notch and so were snapped traps.
The loss was due to more front foot catches and catches not as deep. It was to the point it was blatantly obvious and unacceptable. I never notice it as much in the open water because loss is generally minimal because the animal is down and out right away.
I could probably avoid it by adding more pan tension to the short notch ones, but i dont want any or at least as little as possible(now I am talking rat and mink).
The short latches are all getting turned into pinch pans.
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Post by 17HMR on Aug 14, 2010 17:55:57 GMT -6
Tc39, go to that Iowa forum and look for a vid on them bridger 1.5s ,I think ADC has it, dont waste your money on them till you see this vid. After you watch it you will know all you need to know about those bridger 1.5s.
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Post by Maineman on Aug 14, 2010 18:01:34 GMT -6
No, they do not need more work on land. Why would they? what problem do they have? what "modification" am I missing that you think I'm loosing coon on? I don't "loose" coon- by going with the trap I like, by eliminated what I consider popular brands that are substandard in holding coon IMO, by using the methods I do, sets, etc- I don't get enough snapped land coon traps to spit at in a year-
I doubt seriously if there is anyone reading this, that uses Duke 1.5s on land for coon more than I do.
If there was a reason to modify them, I'd have done it- but again, the short notch and squared dog do all that is needed. I have zero problems with the traps thusly, so why on earth would I do anything to them? for what purpose other than one thinks it needs to be done?
Steve, I've known you long enough to know there is no changing your mind nor do I want to...To quote you, " If you don't know, then don't say that you do"...but to answer you question WHY? - You have a better chance at catching a coyote on land so adding an extra swivel would probably be a good idea.
- IMO, animals on land can fight a trap harder than in water. Turning up the jaw tips wouldn't hurt keeping the jaws from popping...
I don't doubt the holding power of a Duke 1.5...I run a couple hundred of them and have caught, fox, coon, otters and beaver in them...I've also had problems with them when they were not modified...Adding an extra swivel, turning up the jaw tips, night-latching, or even laminating is not "necessary" to catch a coon. But a modified trap gives you the best opportunity to hold what you catch... and isn't that half the battle? What you can't do (without sounding foolish) is try to state that a factory trap is as efficient as a modified one...The question I would have is why wouldn't you want (and I'm not talking about buying a different trap) to use the best trap available. Maybe we are talking 2 different things here... Dave Z
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Aug 14, 2010 21:42:38 GMT -6
17 I have a few I want to try and see what is what, I'm also going to get some of the montanas as well and see how they work.
Dave Z you said a mouthful in your post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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