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Post by musher on Mar 7, 2007 15:37:27 GMT -6
the problem I feel in the north- is that the loop laws and the check laws, are not followed real faithfully. Those things don't exist here. But it probably will happen one day.
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Post by Hornhunter on Mar 7, 2007 16:05:19 GMT -6
Back when we were learning to snare coyotes a warden that snared for years told me--"A track is a trail!"-- That saying always stuck, and held true most often.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 7, 2007 16:13:30 GMT -6
I just don't see it here. I've heard the old saying for years, but in under 8" of snow, I just don't see it. Very few places did I ever see tracks repeating themselves. When you have a small patch- the coyote can come from any direction, and can pretty much hunt it throughly from the edge.
I see randon tracks- coming from (generally) there to (generally) here....
perhaps I'm thinking to small- maybe its just set out 400 snares over 300 miles... just about all my coyote snares last 2 years have been set on a single set of tracks.
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Post by musher on Mar 7, 2007 18:15:37 GMT -6
Steve: If you set a snare on canid tracks, and you wait long enough, they'll come through again. It might take forever and a day but it will happen - unless the travel route gets changed.
I prefer less than 8 inches to more than 8 inches. With so little snow you won't leave as much sign. Deep snow does alter travel ways. The walking underfoot goes from hard to soft, drifts, bent brush due to the weight of the snow ...
You should flag all your single tracks NOW. Next year, before the snow, set them with snares. You might be in for a surprise.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 7, 2007 20:33:41 GMT -6
I am doing that musher- marking trials from this year. I also think that mid summer prep work- blocking, etc- will pay dividends
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 7, 2007 20:46:05 GMT -6
Steve , are you snaring locations that you have trapped earlier this year? I find that there is a world of difference in areas i have trapped and areas that haven't seen any pressure. I think you are more apt to find "regular " trails in well established home ranges rather than where there are animals moving around to find a home land. Now I'm not a big numbers anything guy but this is something i have observed. Its like if i want a sure thing i drive a little to where no one has worked them and it is night and day.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 7, 2007 20:50:51 GMT -6
no, not really. I trap the edges of my snaring area- like within 4-5 miles- but not the actual locations themselves. Here, winter cover totally different from "normal" cover
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Post by NEPISIGUIT on Mar 7, 2007 21:27:45 GMT -6
I am marking all my single trails also.and in fact every two weeks or so i go back over my areas where bait is under snow and check for canid sign and mark. I am sure that once the snow conditions change coming on spring those now buried baits will be dug up.
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Post by irnhdmike on Mar 8, 2007 8:08:42 GMT -6
Steve You look for the ares that they are travelling. The In areas where they hunt they seem to go a different trail every time. But, they will go that way again who knows when but they will. Different if you are using bait stations. Marking your trails and pre blocking are also good . Whenever possibleI prefer to put set my snares a few days before I put out my baits. This way when they show up they will run around worring about the bait and caught in your snares. Personally I would prefer if it never snows. It seems every snow(even if it is just enough to whiten ground) they change the way they use the trails. You should bend down to coyote eye level to look for spots to make your sets. After a snow do this again and I guarantee it will look entirely different.
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Post by rk660 on Mar 8, 2007 16:46:02 GMT -6
You should bend down to coyote eye level to look for spots to make your sets. After a snow do this again and I guarantee it will look entirely different.
couldnt agree more.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 8, 2007 17:27:13 GMT -6
Or add bait stations and that in late winter can add many beneits. As breeding comes on your makeing the attraction spot for coyotes to gather. It may seem like nothin going on until one day you come back and have 3-5 hangin. Many influances with this besides just snow, we have had little snow but putting your bait stations on areas that dictait coyote travel is well worth the effort and when the snow comes or freeze thaw conditions are likely, you can say man I'm glad I didn't have 80 coyote traps out and had those 50-60 snares setting on bait stations.
I have found that scraps, skinned out goods don't offer near the investigation that fresh whole carcasses do, unless the weather is real extreme or I have been having great luck with Hog Fat in chunks, like chumming catfish or sharks, we have about zero hogs in this country but they sure do like it! I had one in a fence snare his whole mouth was cover with white grease LOL! Tman If your going to use all 1/16th cable I would make sure all those coon catches can die quick or your going to have chewing issues, as I have never seen a critter work over cable like a coon.
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Post by JWarren on Mar 8, 2007 19:42:03 GMT -6
anyone using the tiny cable care to comment on lock setup? If you are using cams and springs then what size cams?
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Post by Rally Hess on Apr 4, 2007 2:51:07 GMT -6
Cable that has been compressed(actually drawn and swaged) to a smaller size can still be purchased in most any size and construction. The reason that it is not commonly found in the trapping trade or carried by dealers is that it is very expensive and has to be ordered in large lots. By this I mean in quantities of 50,000 to 100,000 feet and starts at about .09 to .22 cents per foot. The process changes the characteristics of the cable some primarily making it stiffer and stronger per diameter. Using copper stops would make the compressions stronger on any cable but again is more costly. Any single stop on most any cable is not capable of reaching full cable strength per diameter. The more pourous the cable, the more pressure used in the compression of the stop, or using bonding agents that the compression area has been dipped in prior to the compression all can increase holding strength of the stop. The smoother the surface of the cable (like 1x19 or 1x7 which are swaged cables) the more compression needed to reach the same strength of a more porous cable (like 7x7 or 7x19). When a stop or sleeve is compressed onto a piece of cable the metal is actually swagged into the pores of the cable. The more porous the cable the more metal that is swaged into the cable. The strength of the compression is increased by the amount metal that is swagged into the cable and would have to be expanded or sheared off for the stop to slip or come off. To increase holding strength you either have to increase the density of the metal being swagged into the pore of the cable, increase the length of the stop and bearing surface or use a bonding agent. The harder or denser the metal being swagged into the cable the higher the shear factor, the longer the stop the more the bearing surface, and by using a bonding agent the interior strands of cable are bonded with the exterior strands of cable which increases holding strength and helps prevent interior slippage. Most aluminum or copper stops will hold only about 65% of cable strength at best and that is with a proper swagging process. With a fixed volume or diameter swagging tool, the metal is compressed into about 70% of the available pores of the exterior of the cable. To increase this you can turn the stop 90 degrees and cross crimp to fill the other 30%. When you pound a stop on you are actually swagging metal into just the top and bottom and actually not swagging any into the sides of the cable. If you have ever had a loop pull out of an earth anchor or snare this is most likely the reason. Try cutting a cross section of a stop or sleeve and you can easily see that there is no metal swagged into the sides. A crimper also allows you to get more surface area out of a stop or sleeve as it elongates as you swage it, allowing for another compression. A sleeve or double ferrule should be equal to or stronger than the cable when properly swagged. Like Steven49er mentioned above I will try to talk you out of using 3/64" cable for snaring most anything larger than rabbits. I've had good luck using 3/64" stainless 7x7 on both mink and rats but even a body caught mink can chew out and has more snare damage than I care to see on my fur. I too used 3/64" 7x7 and 1x19 on fox with poor results particularly on body snared fox. I realize that the guys using springs are having good results with long snares, but I talk with alot that are not, with chew outs being common with even 1x19 1/16. I don't have alot of coyotes here to do any serious tests on the 3/64 so don't take my advise as gospel either.
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Post by Hornhunter on Apr 4, 2007 5:51:54 GMT -6
Good advice. How many times I'd sneak in through thick softwood hang a snare that felt like a perfect set. Then viewing the set up or down the trail it would quite often have problems. Not in center of trail, to low, too high, loop too small. too big, or limbs blocking the loop.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Apr 4, 2007 15:21:44 GMT -6
Rally intresting post! I have found the only sure fire way to keep the swiveled end on 1/16th cable is to hammer on a 5/64th alum stop or using a hammered on double ferral which cause swivel binding, the 1/16th and foot caught deer just popped them off with little problems early on. Since switching to hammering them on with more surface area of the 5/64 stop, the only give is at the break away and not the swivel. The lock side doesn't take near the abuse and a 1/16th stop seems to hold well on that end.
I hammer on all my stops and have for years and have found it to be much more reliable in this manner with all sizes of 1x19 cable. I make them flat across and it must get good bite as the only way the system breaks down is at the break away. As intended.
Hammering on stops used to be dictaited by the swivels with more narrow openings too far and you would loose the smoothness of the swivel now with the wider/square mouthed swivels no problems hammer away and get a good solid bite into the cable.
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Post by Wiley on Apr 4, 2007 16:36:19 GMT -6
Good post Rally!
~SH~
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Post by robertw on Apr 4, 2007 19:11:39 GMT -6
TC, You should never hammer on an aluminum stop on 1x19 cable on the swiveled end of the snare when using an animal like a coyote. Use an annealed nut or steal stop on 1x19 cable at the swiveled end.
You can still "hammer" them on.
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Post by Woodsmoke on Apr 4, 2007 20:08:52 GMT -6
TC, You should never hammer on an aluminum stop on 1x19 cable on the swiveled end of the snare. Use an annealed nut or steal stop on 1x19 cable at the swiveled end.
Why Robert?
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Post by robertw on Apr 4, 2007 20:29:06 GMT -6
Bryan, The 1x19 cable is a smooth slick surfaced cable. When you hammer an aluminum stop onto 1x19 cable you are not able to press enough of the aluminum down into the cable to create enough of a gripping surface. When force is applied to this aluminum ferrule only a small amount of aluminum is sheared before the ferrule will fail. Aluminum ferrules on say 7x7 cable are an entirely different matter, 7x7 has a rope like texture and the aluminum is forced down into the cable when crimped (or hammered) so much easier.
An annealed nut or steel ferrule does not "shear" nearly as easily as aluminum does. (Ask any trapper using "Cable Restraints" for coyotes which stops commonly fail on 1x19 cable)
The best technique (that many snare builders consider antiquated) when working with smaller diameter 1x7 and 1x19 cable (for coyotes) to guarantee that your stops do not fail is to simply dip the snare ends (after the steel ferrules are attached) in a lead pot and solder them on like the old Gregerson snares were done.
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Post by Woodsmoke on Apr 4, 2007 20:37:13 GMT -6
Robert,
What about using an aluminum double ferrule instead of stop on the swivel end?
I used 1x19 cable extensively for the first time this past season, and I noticed right away that the single stops weren't holding well. I went to double ferrules or 2 single stops instead, and didn't notice anymore problems.
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