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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 2, 2007 14:29:40 GMT -6
The smallest for coyotes I would use is 1/16th and I use all 1x19 as it holds a much better loop than 7x7, as Chris M mentioned why would anyone think that refusals would drop after 1/16th? That is a pretty small cable and as he mentioned blending in the loop should eliminate most refusals or find a better spot on the trail for the snare. I think the mention of 3/64 is more of a macho thing that I can catch coyotes in this smaller yet cable LOL. I use a majority of 5/64 1x19 as it is terrific on coyotes and very chew resistant. I use 1/16th in areas that are more open and have great results with it as well, but if that coyote don't die and can get to chewing then it speaks to the facts that the smaller the cable the less time they need to get through it. I wouldn't recommend the 3/64ths for coyotes as you would find coyotes running around with cable around there necks, could be a very black eye for snaring.
As you go smaller like 1/16th then your loops will really tear drop with 7x7 versus 1x19. I use kill springs/coni springs on all my coyote snares and teeth all cam locks, with this setup one will find a lock that is not forgiving at all, so use them wisely as the highest majority will be found stone dead and waiting.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 2, 2007 15:51:56 GMT -6
all good points- this guy was just asking. He started with 3/32 and saw what he considered too many refusals, so this year he went to 1/16 with stingers. last year, he had chew outs on the 3/32, and this year with the 1/16/stinger combo none, but he still had refusals.
He had heard of this cable that was smaller than 1/16, but as strong. He asked if I had heard of it, and I told him I'd ask here.
So- all in all- what is an acceptable refusal rate. Hard to tell, but snow helps determine this.
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Post by robertw on Mar 3, 2007 22:11:47 GMT -6
Guess I better jump in this one..
The 3/64 diameter cable camaflaged painted is a coyotes worst night mare! The only braid of cable in 3/64 that will hold a loop open the right size is the 1x7 or 1x8. The 1x19 is to limp in this diameter to hold the proper loop.
My losses with the 3/64" diameter over the last two years have been no greater than with the 1/16" 1x19 about 3 to4 percent.
Marty Senneker and Scott Philips have both mentioned using this diameter and braid of cable the last couple of years. Actually Marty is the one that put me on to it two years ago. 3/64" is a real asset in those over grazed bald pastures.
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Post by robertw on Mar 4, 2007 15:58:32 GMT -6
TC37;"as you would find coyotes running around with cable around there necks, could be a very black eye for snaring."
I think you will find the 1x8 3/64" more chew resistant than the 1/16" 1x19. Wire size in the cable braid is considerable larger and tougher.
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Post by sRc on Mar 4, 2007 16:08:17 GMT -6
I've never heard of 1x8 in 3/64-can you explain more?
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Post by stranger on Mar 4, 2007 16:39:44 GMT -6
Like you guys mentioned, Newt is the only one I can think of that would have swaged cable, now the copper ferrules, I can answer, but it is what I have read and seen on videos, not first hand experience, so for what it's worth. It's main purpose is for water trapping in or around salty water. Aluminum will disolve within 24 hours in salt water, it is called electrolasis. The copper will hold up. Also galvanized cable will become very brittle from the inside out, that is why they like stainless and copper ferrules along the coast.
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Post by robertw on Mar 4, 2007 18:08:48 GMT -6
SRC;"I've never heard of 1x8 in 3/64-can you explain more?"
Kind of a broad question....1x8 is one strand of cable made of 8 wires, it is 3/64" in diameter.
1x8 3/64" (have also heard of a 1x7 but never had any) is rather hard to find among the supply dealers. The guy that I got mine from told me that he got from the people that make the ram snares.
If Marty Senneker is still using it Steve Gappa (dealer) should be able to supply you with some if you give him a little time to get it shipped.
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Post by sRc on Mar 4, 2007 20:44:17 GMT -6
thanks RobertW I didn't know it existed
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Post by Wiley on Mar 5, 2007 12:32:41 GMT -6
Robert Waddell,
What's the breaking strength of 3/64" cable in 1 x 19 and 1 x 8?
~SH~
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Post by Freak( Jim V.) on Mar 5, 2007 13:31:44 GMT -6
How hard is it to get it to hold a loop? If not too bad , sounds like a good cat cable with some possibilities for playing with. Gappa , you talked to Marty yet????Let me know about 1,000 feet
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Mar 5, 2007 14:23:14 GMT -6
Wiley I have seen 375lbs listed on a cable website for 3/64th 1x7. I couldn't find 1x8 cable listed anywhere. Compair that to 500lbs on 1/16th cable 1x19 or 1x7. So if a guy could get the 1x7 in 1/16th that would be even a better way to go as the strands would be thicker yet and still be small enough for coyotes. I think some want to try and reinvent the wheel on snaring and keep comming up with yet another item to sell as the whiz bang invention of the year.
As I mentioned I use 5/64Th's mainly because it works and is about bullet proof on coyotes. I don't even have 1% loss on 5/64Th's and use 1/16th in areas I know that will kill quickly. Dead coyotes can't chew.
If the coyote isn't dead there going to chew out of this cable much faster than 5/64Th's. I also think you get to small on diameter and you lose some effect of the snare and the pressure applied to the veins on the neck, so just because you can get smaller cable, doesn't mean it will kill as effectively as somewhat larger cable, especially in the winter time when coyotes have a thicker furred neck. It will take more pressure to get the smaller cable in down against the veins versus other cable diameters. I don't want a 3-5% loss factor when snaring coyotes! I would rather use slightly bigger cable and get it to work, with painting,blending, other areas along the travel route etc, than find chew outs.
I have noticed in the summer thin necked coyotes can be killed as effectively with a 50-75lb choke spring as a stinger, but the stinger does a better job in the open when they get more furred up.
STRAND Two or more wires laid together – the construction is normally referred to as 1 x the number of wires involved; i.e., 1x7, 1x19, etc.
1x7 (7 WIRES) This is the basic strand construction which is used in different combinations to construct another strand or other cables. It is somewhat stiff in larger diameters. 1x19 (19 WIRES) Stronger than 1x7 and more symmetrical in configuration, affording still better properties than 1x7.
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Post by SteveCraig on Mar 5, 2007 14:30:14 GMT -6
"I think some want to try and reinvent the wheel on snaring and keep comming up with yet another item to sell as the whiz bang invention of the year."
Truer words were never spoken!
The beauty of snaring is/was it's simplicity.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 5, 2007 14:59:12 GMT -6
you can apply the same to anything- toothpaste to guns.
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Post by JWarren on Mar 5, 2007 16:12:22 GMT -6
I'm not good enough to use it, I get a leg or body once in awhile. Same with cats, would hate to have a nice cut around the middle which never happens w/ 5/64 and only rarely with 1/16.
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Post by Cal Taylor on Mar 5, 2007 16:28:28 GMT -6
I used some 3/64" for cat snares this year. I had 4 accidental coyotes . Since they were small loops they were all neck snared and all very dead. No deader than anything else, but dead none the less. Same with cats. I think it is great for cats, but will stick to 1/16" for coyotes.
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Post by Wiley on Mar 5, 2007 17:17:16 GMT -6
37: "Wiley I have seen 375lbs listed on a cable website for 3/64th 1x7."
Thank you tc37!
There in lies the problem, if you have a kink in that 3/64" cable and you accidentally catch a deer or livestock, the cable could break before the breakaway releasing the deer or livestock packing the snare. This is also what a friend of mine told me about 3/64" cable.
I don't think the advantage of 3/64" over 1/16" in refusals on coyotes is worth taking the risk of sending a deer or other livestock packing a snare.
As tc37 stated, if you camo the heavier cable and blend them to their background, you won't find an advantage in 3/64. Hell, Bob Wendt snared coyotes with 1/8" Tow rope sized cable. LOL!
A very good snareman from the Dakotas told me that his chewouts with 1/16" snares was even too high when he got into springy brush where the lock wouldn't set up before the coyote chewed out.
I'm with tc 37 all the way on this. 1/16" for grassy trails and buck brush and 5/64" cable for springy plum thickets and buffalo berry.
~SH~
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Post by robertw on Mar 5, 2007 20:27:05 GMT -6
Wiley;"if you have a kink in that 3/64" cable and you accidentally catch a deer or livestock, the cable could break before the breakaway releasing the deer or livestock packing the snare."
I use an extremely short snare (swiveled) then add a heavier (3/32 7x7) extension cable to reach any tie off point To avoid worrying about any kinks.
I agree that you would not want to use this cable size around livestock.
One of the places this cable is a real asset is in fence crawl unders when dealing with cable educated coyotes especially when you witnessing refusals.
Steve Craig;"keep comming up with yet another item to sell as the whiz bang invention of the year."
Sorry Steve but your wrong. I do not know of anyone selling snares made out of this size of cable for coyotes. Snares made out this diameter cable (in my opinion) are not something just every average trapper could use with out having somthing go wrong. I am just trying to share my experiences with what I believe to be a better method to get the job done quicker and easier with fewer headaches.
Those of you on this forum that would like to know more about using this diameter of cable on coyotes Scott Philips has a two part article in the February and March issues of the Fur Taker. Scott Philips is a PROFESSIONAL TRAPPER that actually produces results.
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Post by SteveCraig on Mar 5, 2007 22:15:50 GMT -6
Robert, I was quoting TC37, and simply agreeing with his assessment that there is a trend happening in snaring that simply need not be. You should know me by now that I use and prefer 1/8 cable for coyotes, especially with the stupid "relaxing lock" laws that are being pushed. I do not use 3/64 for coyotes. I do not recommend it for coyotes, and I certainly would not teach others here to use it either. I do use it for bobcats. And mink. Heck, I can snare cats with 1/8 if I need to. I got a pile of video this year doing just that. My whole point was that there is stuff out there being pushed or recommended for a certain problem in snaring that will cause MORE problems if it is used or used improperly. 3/64 cable for coyotes, is one of them. Too many variables out there. Try using that size, or even 1/16 on Indiana coyotes with a "relaxing lock" and see a boat load of problems occur. Mostly the loss of snaring in due time. I have always advocated to use what works for your area, as long as it is legal. Some inventions are good and ADD to the sport, but far more harm that help. The trend to smaller cable is one of them. Just my OPINION and FWIW Steve
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Post by Wiley on Mar 5, 2007 23:40:33 GMT -6
RW: "I use an extremely short snare (swiveled) then add a heavier (3/32 7x7) extension cable to reach any tie off point To avoid worrying about any kinks."
I don't care how short your snare is before the extension you will still get some kinking with any snare. First a deer comes by and knocks the snare down. Then you have some other critter come by and pull the snare shut without getting caught but still kinks the cable. Rather than reset a new snare, most guys will reset the old snare and bend the kinks out.
With only 375 pounds of breaking strength on a direct pull on NON KINKED CABLE, there's not much room for error with a heavier break away device after the cusioning of the neck.
Forget livestock, a deer has plenty of power to break that cable if the breakaway doesn't give first. Then you have a deer packing a snare.
RW: "One of the places this cable is a real asset is in fence crawl unders when dealing with cable educated coyotes especially when you witnessing refusals."
Depending on the depth of the crawl through, it's very easy to scoop up coyote feet in a fence snare. 3/64 cable is virtually a guaranteed chewout on a foot caught coyote whether under a fence or caught in a trail after a deer knocks the snare down.
I can't afford any losses.
RW: "Those of you on this forum that would like to know more about using this diameter of cable on coyotes Scott Philips has a two part article in the February and March issues of the Fur Taker. Scott Philips is a PROFESSIONAL TRAPPER that actually produces results."
Scott Philips is not the only PROFESSIONAL TRAPPER that has an opinion on the use of 3/64 cable.
Go ahead guys. Give it a whirl and make sure you remember what was written and make sure you post back your results.
~SH~
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Post by trappnman on Mar 6, 2007 6:50:09 GMT -6
I want everyone to keep this in mind- this thread was a quistitive type post- I've had to delete a few posts that were pissing match posts- and there is no place for that here.
Robert- thanks for the advice on what this guy was curious about. I'll pass it along and he can decide if he wants to try it or not. BTW- this guy snared 54 coyotes in cattail marshes in western MN this year using 1/16 and Stingers. But had enough refusals that he was wondering aobut the smaller cable.
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