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Post by Zagman on Mar 6, 2007 7:23:41 GMT -6
Steve, if the guy who called with the question snared 60 coyotes this year with your tight snaring laws, it sounds like he is doing pretty good already. Are there many people in MN knocking down those type of snared-coyote numbers?
Hoping to get some type of snare/CR here in NYS soon and would think those would be pretty good results early on in the process.....
Zagman
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 6, 2007 7:47:47 GMT -6
My jaw hit the floor when I heard his numbers
NO!Thats not the norm. No one down here that I know of is even really trying to snare, let along getting decent numbers. I was suitably impressed.
His secret is his terrian. He is snaring almost 100% if not 100% in frozen cattail marshes on private land. All this is within 4 miles of his house. I don't know the size of loop or height he is using them at.
trouble is here- all the heavy cover, ALL the marshes- are on state land. I'm going crazy trying to find locations more than anything else. Our big areas are open woods- and the small 20x20 areas of cover are so numerous, that so far I haven't found any to have enough tracks to set up.
and those that want 1/8, etc can have it- next year for me- 100% 1/16.
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Post by 17HMR on Mar 6, 2007 9:49:52 GMT -6
Steve, give them a reason to use those 20x20 areas, like big bait pile.
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Post by musher on Mar 6, 2007 9:55:00 GMT -6
trouble is here- all the heavy cover, ALL the marshes- are on state land. I'm going crazy trying to find locations more than anything else. Our big areas are open woods- and the small 20x20 areas of cover are so numerous, that so far I haven't found any to have enough tracks to set up. If you have one set of tracks going through cover you have a place to set a snare.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 6, 2007 9:55:44 GMT -6
I do that now- all my carcasses go into piles at select locations- but with little snow, not much coyote use- Its a slow learning curve for sure, I'll either figure it out or just say the heck with it and snare fox and coon with the right sized loops for them.
I'd love to use Steve Craigs idea of making coon loops before coyote loops- being specific- trouble is, the loop I use for yotes and distance abotu ground, takes at least 75% of any passing coon- and I just get too much fur damage to keep doing that every year.
Thought Stingers would curtail the problem, and while they do kill coon, I still get fur damage.
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Post by Bristleback on Mar 6, 2007 10:10:32 GMT -6
Steve, I've talked with Marty at length about developing a lighter duty Stinger for coon. IMHO, and GENERALLY speaking the coon just are not big enough, long enough legged to get near enough momentum to maximize the Stinger set up like a coyote. Many coon are snared in entanglement situations. Non entanglement and if you're not running a kill pole, that is when I wish there was a lighter duty Stinger for coon.
Shoot, I've had many a coyote.......mid to upper 20# range, low 30# that don't fully compress a Stinger, matter of fact it's rare that a coyote in my area, ever fully compresses a Stinger, but most all of them have some tension on the Stinger.....
Wonder what Zags and Stef's yotes would do......their coyotes would be like my coyotes on Barry Bond's "clear and cream"...I'm betting the Stingers would really shine.....if on the right set up.
Your coon run bigger(MN, WI, Dakotas, some out west) than most, compared to the central states and south....
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 6, 2007 10:17:37 GMT -6
I just don't see enough pattern to really set up. I've set up an awful lot of those 1 track areas, with little returns.
I think I snared maybe 1 coon that was under 25# this year
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 6, 2007 10:55:15 GMT -6
Steve , do you have any tall weed fields. I make trails with a truck threw these fields on a route that i think they would like to travel. Ideally i am making a convenient travel route. The biggest problem is making one that the deer won't use.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 6, 2007 12:16:46 GMT -6
I know Im making this soundlike I'm whining, but Im not-
Snow knocks down that type of cover. Plus bird hunters in anything of any size until dec 31.
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Post by ohiyotee on Mar 6, 2007 12:36:07 GMT -6
yes , one tends to relate situations with familiar conditions with out thinking about it . You guys get about a million times more snow than us. here is some cover at the end of Jan. here. you probably have nothing like this at that time of the year. A few carcass piles and a few trails and its done.
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Post by trappnman on Mar 6, 2007 17:22:11 GMT -6
very rare here this time of year
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Post by Cal Taylor on Mar 6, 2007 18:48:51 GMT -6
Wiley, I will agree that 3/64 is not the cable for coyotes. But it is fine on cats. If I was in a place I was worried about deer I would put a bridge over the top to stop the deer. I never snare where there is livestock. But most places I snare a cat, I would never expect a deer. If I think there are too many deer in an area, I either won't snare it or build up enough location that a deer won't try it. But you are correct that the cable could break before the breakaway gave.
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Post by rk660 on Mar 6, 2007 21:57:27 GMT -6
We had enough snow this year, that i was seeing some refusals from cats on 1/16, mostly on bare ice w/ solid white background. With deep snow each top bank, it really put then on the ice, so kinda where you wanted to be. Seem if they SEE the snare, they make an effort to dodge it or pick their feet up and step thru. Along with normal cat size problems, set for yearlings, miss bigger cats that jump over or go around, set for tom sized cats, miss yearlings, and seems to be compounded when snow makes the loops stand out more. Sometimes it seems if I would block with enough grass, buckbrush, etc to conceal the snare, it would be to the point of being a tad too tight for them to just cruise thru. I made up some 1x19 3/64 and it sure looked good, I think I could keep a more inviting wider opening, with my fencing about 2" ea side of snare, and would still blend in and maybe not get as much ducking or stepping thru, or refusals from too small an opening. As soon as I was getting some spots set up, we thawed out and the overly white background problem went away.
I never snared a cat in the 3/64 this year, and doubt I'll need a lot of it on a large scale, but think I will have 50 or so made just for when snow gets deep again.
I can probibly make 1/16 blend in most spots if determined enough and spend enough time at it, but that 3/64 required much less time to get a location set, and would add more #'s set in a days time, and a larger catch I am assuming.
I had a fair amount of my 1/16 that hadnt been painted tan, and where a too dark of grey, and they really looked like ca-ca on the snow, light tan looks a lot better on the snow than dark grey. I still hate white snares since we thaw out in a moments time any more, then you end up with a bunch of white snares on brown grass, UGH!
Another thing that helps is take a big handful of grass, and grind with hands so you get a dusting of grass flakes on snow ea side and under snare. Coyotes i think might baulk a little at "covering" the snow to help diminish the bad looking contrast, but coons and cats it does help.
On coyotes, I'd be leary of 3/64, but I suppose if had everything just right, it could be an asset in certain extreme conditions.
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Post by musher on Mar 7, 2007 5:36:01 GMT -6
Rich: Did you ever try white speed dip? It makes for a very white snare that is difficult to spot in snow.
Since you preople live in open areas, what effect do you think the shadow of the snare caused by the moon is?
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Post by rk660 on Mar 7, 2007 7:21:55 GMT -6
i tried tan speed dip once and seemed to make snares real gummy. think I got 3 or so cans white blackies dip laying around somewhere, but doubt Ill ever use it. Moonlight shadows, now you just gave me one more thing ta worry about, as if I didnt have enough already, LOL.
Steve, there used to be a guy under name Rigging and Wear, snareman in northern MN, he used to advertize in TPC. I use to buy cable from him years ago and talked a lot of snaring with him at a few conventions. I remember him saying he snared 100 coyotes and usually over 200 fox most years. If true dont know, but he had some pretty impressive pictures, cant remember his name beside that buz name for life of me. Always wondered what happened to him. He was using 1/16 1x19 on about eveything back in the mid 80's, before springs and all the other modern do-dads we put on snares today.
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Post by musher on Mar 7, 2007 8:38:16 GMT -6
If your snares were gummy your dip wasn't diluted with enough naphta. They don't have to be bright white. Snowshoe hare white is enough! I do them in the hot weather we have in June/July and hang them until late Oct.
Moon shadows are a serious worry around here. Lots of guys believe that a full moon in snowy conditions results in less snare captures. And we trap in brush!
BTW: I don't dip my snares white. I have enough to worry about without changing snares! A light coat of black or brown on some. Others get "greyed" with baking powder of a fir branch boil. I do worry about the moon when a snare is in an open area.
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Post by rk660 on Mar 7, 2007 10:10:51 GMT -6
Musher, I do think full moons result in less snare catches, from critters seeing the snare better. I suppose on real white backgound like you probibly have the shadow is a problem.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 7, 2007 10:18:33 GMT -6
the problem I feel in the north- is that the loop laws and the check laws, are not followed real faithfully.
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Post by MadTrapper on Mar 7, 2007 13:48:57 GMT -6
trapperman, I honestly think if I caught 54 coyotes in cattails here with 1/16 in 1/19 cable prob 1/3 of them would be gone when I went to check. Most would be gone in the 1st 3 hours after caught. why? in the cattails here(we don't have many) it wouldn't give the coy an adequate run to set the stinger. uless just very short, dinky cattails.. Maybe theres a difference in coyotes, who knows.. The situations for my 1/16 stingers would be no entanglement situations. period. unless your very experienced with your entaglement situations. 3/64? I've tried it, good cat snare.. With that said. a 3/64 in 1x7 might make a difference, actually I'm sure it would.. It would be tighter hold a better loop, and be more chew resistant.. I think the ones who have used it are thinking, very short pastures with no livestock.. In the very short pastures with little grass and no cattle, there would also be very few deer. There are pastures with big dog towns where I would like to try it. Places like hardly any cover and zero entaglement. Better have your stingers on, filed cam, and hope for a quick kill.
madtrapper
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Post by Steve Gappa on Mar 7, 2007 14:32:03 GMT -6
never caught a yote in cattails- but coon sure flatten them to the ground.
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