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Post by Wackyquacker on Jul 19, 2004 22:01:16 GMT -6
Now I know that many have used chared wood in combination with luring, however, we often use charcoal to absorb, purify, remove odors etc and I've oft times wondered on the wisdom of using charcoal as a lure holder...it may just really hold.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 20, 2004 7:01:10 GMT -6
Does a lure placed a foot about a set disipitate more than a lure placed in the hole? Or on the side of a rock?
I can't really see it- a volitile lure will have odor hanging about the set- to be pushed and blown by the wind..and since the source of the odor is somewhat protected in the hole- one could readily make the case that in a day or 2- lure in a hole would reach out farther (cause more source) that lure placed in the elememnts to dry out/glaze over.
And if high lure (I refuse to call it "call lure" as ALL lures are call lures) is placed using wind direction, then 360 isn't REALLY true- to a scant degree- but no more so than any other lure placement.
Having said that- I do occasionally lure/urine a weed backing a few inches up...but to me, thats still at the set.
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Post by 17kiss on Jul 20, 2004 8:44:06 GMT -6
I was also under the impression that a hole breathes if you know what I mean . Which should carry lure odrs up and out. Like a groundhog hole steaming in the winter. Dont really think there is a right or wrong it is what it is and thats all it is
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Post by tim125 on Jul 20, 2004 18:58:32 GMT -6
i think the hole is a vacuum - i very rarely put lure down it- i like mine up and out and out and about-
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Post by Stef on Jul 20, 2004 19:00:58 GMT -6
tim, maybe that's because you only use 2 drops
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Post by tim125 on Jul 20, 2004 19:08:17 GMT -6
1/ 10 of a drop stef- but like you dead on location
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Post by trappnman on Jul 20, 2004 19:11:08 GMT -6
Actually- a hole is anything but a vacumn- one reason hole sets are so successful.
In fact, as was stated earlier- putting a lure in a hole or under a rock might actually enhance the longivity of a lure.
For example- lure down the hole would :
1) not be weather beaten- sun, rain, wind 2) not freeze 3) in additon, a warm hole would allow air borne scent to rise
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Post by dj88ryr on Jul 20, 2004 19:13:50 GMT -6
I use a small hole, but a BIG dollop of lure on the cotton ball. Make many caatches first night, so I know that I am not over luring, and I don't have to relure as often. Heck, they were still digging last years holes out in April.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 20, 2004 20:35:29 GMT -6
I have to say this- if 1/10 of a drop of lure is really what you use- and not 1/11 or 1/9...then 1) you have a lot of fox and 2) I can see why you don't want it in the hole- so you just have a bare hole?
I'd say- if you are taking 500 fox using lure like that, a good lure in the hole would give you 700.
Just my opinion, of course.
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Post by 17kiss on Jul 20, 2004 21:07:59 GMT -6
I am giving it a try both ways this year just to test the waters. Will give it 2 days with the light amount and then the ususal and keep track of the differences. may be a population thing or may not. But have to agree if not putting down hole that trace amount may be all that is needed , down hole more. where , exactly do you place lure Timmy? On backing or a twig stuck in entrance to hole? I know , I am just full of questions. Nothing ventured , nothing gained.
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Post by tim125 on Jul 21, 2004 4:50:31 GMT -6
waste not want not- 1/10 works on my written in stone line- never down the hole- my cloth always stiches in the other direction- i often thought of the places where 7 out of 14 or 5 out of 9 - if i would have set more locations there how much better could i have done- -maybe we will know this season-
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Post by trappnman on Jul 21, 2004 17:32:58 GMT -6
tim -if you are using 1/10 of an drop- how do you separate the drop btw?- you are using blind sets. Why even use lure at all? Obviously, you have enough fox that blind sets- ie unlured sets- payoff for you.
and with that many fox- the multiple catches day after day- no lure would of course be needed- fox gland smell, urine, feces would be hanging over the set locations.
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Post by tim125 on Jul 21, 2004 20:43:06 GMT -6
you are exactly right steve that is why 1/2 the sets only have a couple of chicken feathers down the hole and urine on top -the other has 1/10 drop- the size of the drop is directly related to the size of the hole it is coming out of- as for fox blind sets i believe i can enter the masters catagorie on that 1 and when i show you 1 day when we meet i bet it will work on coyotes 2- its so simple is almost unbelievable - i keep wanting to write a book about all this but need someone to pedal it and i would want all the profits to go to the penna trappers assoc -25 %seller and 75 % pta- after hard cost - i day i will find someone to do this
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Post by tim125 on Jul 21, 2004 20:48:07 GMT -6
steve for years i had penned foxes - some where over 13 yrs when they past and 1 thing with fox i know for sure is dropping are a waste of time-when i would bring them home the penned foxes would get the dry heaves when they sniffed them and walk away from the area they were placed-where as if you brought a young pup back to visit its mom she would sqeeze all the diarrhea she could in excitement and wimper and moan and yak like you could not believe- even up to 5 months of seperation
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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 21, 2004 20:59:48 GMT -6
tim, What is the reasoning that you lure so little and use chicken feathers alone with just urine at some sets? Are you playing to the foxes curiosity so they work the set better?
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Post by tim125 on Jul 21, 2004 21:06:39 GMT -6
THINK ABOUT THE DAMPNESS - in the dirt hole the air becomes heavy due to moisture -the chicken feathers are always 1s from the oldest rooster i can buy from the farmer- pluck all the soft feathers and forget the rest - now think about how that chickens been stinkin his whole barn yard life - i will finish this tommorrow-
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 22, 2004 15:38:29 GMT -6
Depends on what you define as a "call lure"? All lures call a species to the set, be it 1 ft off a well used coyote trail or from some distance upwind of the trail, there noses intersect the smell and "call" the animal over for further investigation. It depends on the lure if it goes down the hole, on the inside of a t-bone, or on a simulated getter type head. or in a clump of grass etc. Lures that are really loud can get a rolling reaction, I don't want that down a hole with a trap 6"-8" out in front as rolling, cheek rubbing etc, will leave you with empty snapped traps, I would rather have that type of lure 8"-12" away on a grub stake or a clump of grass where they can cheek rub and still be standing in a comfortable position and get caught. I have some lure I use that are a mild smell that have "called coyotes" 40-50-60ft from a travel way, there noses are unbeleivable, so I don't think a "call" lure has to be loaded with skunk etc, to be defined as such. Location and placement of attractor all depends on the set type, and lure used. I also don't force in my sets I want it to be as natural as can be, if the area is better suited for a flat set then I put in a flat set, not a dirt hole, if I'm trapping coyotes by bone pile's then a t-bone set will fit the bill perfect, and be the most natural, plus using mild lure at such draw stations cuts down on the skunk,badger, and coons catches.
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Post by trappnman on Jul 22, 2004 15:53:11 GMT -6
Some real good posts,
so you think that a coyote...coming to a scent that promotes rolling....will just start rolling before he gets to the scent?
I find that the coyote wants to stick his nose in the hole first...then after touching it, feeling it....THEN wants to roll on it...
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Post by tim125 on Jul 22, 2004 17:40:26 GMT -6
ok coon duke ask your self this question- when a fox smells a chicken or any other animal of eatin or playing interest -what exactly does it smell- the inside (meat )or the outer essence of the animal it self- imagine chicken feathers in a dark damp hole- absoring the moister into the feathers- the hole emitting the faint odor of the bait( chicken feathers) -what is bait in a trappers eyes- something trappers would like to eat so they create the internal baits - or something the fox would hunt and eventually search out -(the real smell of a chicken) imagine being a fox and finding a hole with a few chicken feathers in it- they would think the whole darn thing is down there-i often think lure dealers have another avenue to approach when creating lures- natural odors of prospective bait veiwed from the nose of a canine- when a fox works a dirthole - it is face aggressive- and with that i mean it uses it snout to pound in the hole to retreive the bait before it starts to dig- if it can get the bait it often does not dig- when the hole is deeper than the length of the foxes nose it is sure to go into digging mode -so study the circumference of the foxes nose right at the base of the eyes and study the length of the nose from base of eyes to tip of nose and test this as i have and you will see the results- so are chicken feathers bait-and why the fox urine coonduke- thanks for the question on this
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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 22, 2004 19:05:23 GMT -6
Good post tim. I can imagine wet chicken feathers putting off a pretty good odor. When you talk about dirthole size in relationship to a foxes nose...would plugging the hole with a loose ball of grass have the same effect of a deeper hole? Make the canine work harder to get at the bait. I have had good luck with plugged holes in the past.
I assume a dead whole mouse could be used in the same way as feathers. Giving off natural odor of the prey.
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