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Post by thebeav2 on Jul 18, 2004 22:37:43 GMT -6
Well if the Wolf flick I saw on Discovery channel Is credible. A wolf can smell a down wind moose fart from three miles away. So It seems that lure placed up high, will carry farther then a lure placed on the ground or In a hole.
Beav
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Post by blakcoyote on Jul 18, 2004 23:02:05 GMT -6
One other reason that I dont use call lures up high on posts and such,is I think it tends to loose its effectiveness sooner than in a hole.My thinking is that wind and sun tend to breakdown and dry the lure out.Whereas in a hole it tends to stay damp and giving off an odor for a longer period of time.Just like a dog thats wet or damp smells more than if he where dry.
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Post by tim125 on Jul 19, 2004 5:40:42 GMT -6
if you feel your lure is dring out up high - then place it in a small jar of water to keep the humidity level up
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Post by trappnman on Jul 19, 2004 6:19:01 GMT -6
I've always wanted to see wolves hunting those flying moose... a good umbrella is a must... seriously- comparing smelling an animal the size of a moose- to 10 drops of lure placed above the set- well, there is no comparison. Or birds, or rabbits, etc- an animal has many types of glands emitting many types of scents- plus, PLUS the animal is still moving (which is why fawns, etc- are genetically programed to lay perfectly still left alone. Much depends on your animal densiites, terrian, average weather conditions, etc. The question becomes- can a canine smell a volitile type lure any farther if placed on the ground or up a few feet or even higher? In more open, even sparse areas- where locations aren't pinpointed- perhaps a call station made of lure would be beneficial. Or maybe it depends on how long you are in the area. Like anything else- if it works for you, use it. Good discussion and good points- a fun one to think about.....
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Post by jim on Jul 19, 2004 7:20:45 GMT -6
Beave: Down wind, no way, upwind who knows. Jim
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Post by thebeav2 on Jul 19, 2004 7:58:50 GMT -6
I'm sure about one thing on this issue. Is that placeing a call lure away from the set in cojuction with your lure at the set can't hurt your chances of catching your target animal.
Beav
I see your point ,but the moose fart Is still down wind from the moose LOL You never piss Into the wind, but you all way's hunt Into the wind. LOL
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Post by trappnman on Jul 19, 2004 8:24:35 GMT -6
see....and thats the one thing i'm still wondering about... ;D
cause there are 3 options concerning a high placed lure:
1) It does a lot of good 2) its neutral- neither helps nor hinders 3) It causes misses
I can logically see all 3 scenerios being true at some time or the other.
Now- one other thing that was pointed out to me- the amount of lure used. Those that say it adds a large % to their catch, also promote using a large amount- more than the average guy would even think about.
So does using a small amount do any good at all?
Or is it like the "old Octane Booster" trick on bikes?
A few years ago, it was popular to add octane booster to motorcycle gas at the pump. Many would carefully add a capful or twop to "beef up the gas"....adding tis to 3-6 gals of gas.
But if you read the instructions close, it says- "add pint to 10-12 gallons of gas AND IT WOULD INCREASE the octane by 2 points!
So- a pint to 10-12 gals would raise it 2 points- what would a capful do in 3-6 gals?
Nothing-yet many swore they could feel the increased power.
So using a small amount of a high placed lure...just makes the trapper feel good?
?
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Post by JLDakota on Jul 19, 2004 9:14:28 GMT -6
Steve, Not necessily any more on the post or bush then you would put down the hole. Reference to larger amount of lure is when the "vehicle for dispersal" is a container containing sawdust, melted down lard, a rag etc which would have a "normal" application of lure mixed in with it. Not promoting the use of a 4 oz jar of Canine Call on a post.... but a good "dab" mixed in a medium as referenced above. ;D Jim
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 19, 2004 12:56:40 GMT -6
You know there is another animal that isn't a canine that is susceptible to call lures.
They are worth as much 10-15 coyotes apiece as well.
I guess I'm changing the subject slightly but for cats I prefer a call lure 3-4 feet off the ground. I use a clothespin dipped or smeared with a good dose of the rankest skunk, or civit musk available.
Then I like a beaver based or rat musk mixture about head height as they like to rub.
Finally urine or gland on the ground preferably not right next to the trap.
Why? Because on a walkthrough set I want his attention on the flag or looking for a lure off of the ground not looking at his feet and my trap.
If he is drawn through the walkthrough by the use of lure or visuals he's almost always caught.
I don't dig dirt holes for cats or bury traps any more. Why fight frozen ground if you don't have to?
As far as canines go I actually try to avoid catching a lot of them as I don't want the coyote occupying the trap when a cat comes along.
Joel
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Post by WVBill on Jul 19, 2004 13:32:57 GMT -6
Joel,
You made a very good point. But it also can be used on canines.
If I put a lure up off the ground I expect the canine to be looking up for it not on the ground. In Joels case on a walk thru set he has the guiding and all in place to make the animal walk where he wants him.
Me though 95% of my sets are dirt hole type of sets therefore I want the animal to focus his attention on the set. Not be looking around for something else. If the lure that brought him there is not positioned where he has to walk thru the trap there is a possibility he will not get caught. The skunk smell got him there but it is on a fence post and the gland lure is down a hole five foot away. He could care less about the gland but wants the skunk and walks away. I would be hoping that I did not educate him.
I have to admit sometimes I use urine on a fence post about fifteen feet away from my sets so I can keep some of the cows out of them. It works. Their curisoty is on the fence post and not the dirt hole.
Bill
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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 19, 2004 13:47:27 GMT -6
That clothespin idea is a good one Joel. Don't really use a call lure up high but if I did I would be buying clothespins!! ;D
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Post by tim125 on Jul 19, 2004 15:45:44 GMT -6
i see said the blind man as he peeed into the wind its all coming back to me now
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Post by musher on Jul 19, 2004 16:29:47 GMT -6
I see said the blind carpenter as he picked up his hammer and saw!
I use call lures for more than just canids. I"m not trying to attract something the last 100 yards. I'm going for long distance. Quarter mile, half mile,. who knows?
Think of bear burns. People place them "up" even though hot things already go up. Think of fish oils for bears. Again people place them in trees (flying fish?). Think of fisher and marten locations. Always up.
My fisher/marten lure is up; so is the trap! My bear lure is up; with the trap!
My lures are usually within inches of my canid sets. I place a loud lure on a stick just out/on the edge of my mouse hole. The hole has bait which is lightly covered with whatever hides it a little. The lure isn't high but it is up compared to the trap. Do you guys leave your holes wide open for the birds to investigate? If you cover your hole don't you cut down on your lure spreading?
Isn't the crux of this that your lure should be at your set?
To add to Beav's example, I've read about wolves tracking caribou from 7 miles. I've also seen where a pack of wolves ignored 3 moose in a gulley even though they passed within a quarter mile of them. At the time I thought the wolves hadn't smelled them. Maybe they just weren't hungry? Fat chance. They are always hungry! When the wind is blowing the wrong way it's blowing the wrong way. However, when the wind is blowing in the right direction it can carry scent remarkable distances. Non-smokers can tell you stories! Due to less vegetation it is windier the higher you go. That means your guides and backing might actually slow down scent dispersal. It won't matter for 100 yards but if you want long distance it might.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Jul 19, 2004 19:49:19 GMT -6
One thing I've noticed is that the best coyote trappers are often not the best cat trappers.
I call it canine mentality and it can really get in your way if you are after cats.
Not knocking coyote trappers but most of the cat sets I see in print are just modified coyote sets.
They are slightly different animals and the best methods for cats are slightly different than the best sets for coyotes.
Leave your trowels and hammers home.
Joel
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Post by BrandonH on Jul 19, 2004 19:50:07 GMT -6
Joel, Let's start a 'cat thread then.......
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Post by trappnman on Jul 19, 2004 19:51:48 GMT -6
Lead the way Joel- never saw a cat in a trap in my life...but will one day.
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Post by Edge on Jul 19, 2004 19:53:17 GMT -6
I would be interested in that as well,we can trap cats,but not many,so basic sets are all I know.
Edge
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Post by CoonDuke on Jul 19, 2004 20:16:54 GMT -6
I did a little test with my dog tonight.
I made a wobble hole about 6 inches deep and put 1/2 teaspoon of my bait down the hole. 4 feet beyond the hole, a wiped my spoon off in the grass. There was no visible bait on the spoon...just juice.
My dog ran right by the baited hole and tried to eat the grass where the I wiped the spoon.
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Post by Wackyquacker on Jul 19, 2004 21:16:21 GMT -6
Just an observation: smell is particulate in nature...molecules a small particals. If there is no wind sent will diffuse from concentrated areas toward dilute areas (according to the law of mass action). Think first of a pebble in a pond and the ripples as zones of diffusion...the further from the center the less noticable until they are gone. For scent this effect will have a three dimensional shape. As with the ripples, the diffusion zones will be time dependent. And the size of the pebble(concentration of lure ingredients) will have a direct effect on the size of each initial ripple and the distance from the splash too fade out.
I think this is a reasonable analogy. Of course things like molecular size, volitility, temp, concentration and relative humidity will all contribute to the process. For certain, with smells, above ground placements will expidite diffusion thereby decreasing the time needed to fill / replensih wind washed or faded diffusion zones. Also, above ground locations will produce rather even zones over 360 degrees...if that is important.
I sometimes lure above (a foot or two) and or behind my set with a loud lure for coyotes and almost always for cats.
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Post by 17kiss on Jul 19, 2004 21:39:36 GMT -6
O'Gorman has a good video out on maximizing your lure and proper usage. I liked his line of thoughts. But , what about the grab n die stakes like Zagger showed during his demo. Has eye appeal plus above ground level in most circumstances.Another O'G trick . tryed them with limited results last year , but was using black wool early , am retrying with white wool this season. Just more food for thought. And I believe someone used to burn blocks of wood black and drill holes about 12in off the ground in them so as to take advantage of wind currents. Think this was discussed somehwere about just drilling small holes in fence posts and putting lure in them. has noone tried this? ?
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