FN Scent Business

[Deleted]

A couple of trappers I know that know I test coyote lures & baits tipped me off of a couple of lures they'd found showed exceptional response as "remake" lures.  Well, I order a couple of the lures and I see the manufacturer has two baits, one with skunk and one without.  I really like a skunked-up lure or bait so I order the "skunky" bait with the lures.  I even call the supplier to find out if he has the skunky bait and does he stock it because he is the ONLY supplier I can find who carries it.

My order arrives today and I'm immediately put off because I smell no skunk!  I open the jar of bait and there is no skunk.  I contact the supplier and he checks all of his supply and tells me that none have skunk in them!!  He also tells me that there has been a new owner of the lure & bait manufacturers business so he offers to send me 1 oz off skunk essence and I'm good with that except I have to manufacture my own FN bait!!

The real problem here is how can I trust this "new" manufacturer to follow the formula they bought?  Is the formula the same as the two trappers's stuff they wanted me to test??  They sure didn't follow the bait formula and they only offer 2 baits, one with and one without skunk!  I got the lures to test but are they the same lures the two trappers suggested I test?  Seriously pisses me off!

This is the 2nd time this has happened.  Some years ago a VERY well known scent manufacturer started a new line so I ordered several of his coyote lures to test.  One, the "Magnum" was supposed to have skunk but when I received the lure , no skunk.  I phoned the individual and told him of the situation and he got sort of pissed with me as if I was some kind of dummy that didn't know what the F skunk smelled like!!  Like I'd just fallen off the FN beet truck!!  He did relent and sent me another jar but it was the same, no skunk!  I said F it and washed it off as a bad deal.   I will say though, that one of his old-time lures is my top rated/producer lure and I continue to buy it BUT I know who the manufacturer of that particular lure is NOW, my #1 has been made by at least 3 different manufacturers(original included) in the past handful of years so who knows its longevity at the top of my list next year with a #4 manufacturer??

Folks have ask me over the years why I buy and test so many different lures and baits and the above examples are exactly why I do it and I find I still never trust any manufacturer from one year to the next!

I'm not done with this rant, if you want more, I can bring it!

[flathead40]

I always enjoy reading your rants, and usually learn something in the process so please, by all means let if FN fly lol

[Deleted]

NEW DEVELOPMENT!

I normally don't open a jar or bottle of lure until the day I use it either in a test or on the line.  Well, with the bait deal being an ah-chitter I figured I'd better give the lures an early sniff.

Here's the description-

"Made for extra calling power. Contains civit and skunk musk. Base made with fresh ground mice. Very powerful lure."

Guess what I smelled?  It sure as chit WASN'T any skunk and civet!   Oh by the way, notice how civet is spelled on the label.  These are people selling a product to the public you'd at least think they could spell the words on their label correctly!   Another thing that is sort of humerous, on the supplier's web page of all the manufacturer's jars, this one was the only one that was suppose to contain the civet and skunk because in the photo it shows where the lid is wrapped with enough electrical tape to wire a small house with!

[redsnow]

Well, you've just come up with the new slogan for this lure business. "Lures that trapper's swear by, and about!"

But it sounds like you've got your monies worth in black tape.

I guess it would be very difficult to make a consistent formula, and have it come out the same year to year. But skunk and civet are skunk and civet. No mistaking that scent!

[bblwi]

Oh my word trappers or trapping businesses that may not be scrupulous!!! Well who would have ever thought. I remember going to the first national I went to in Fond du Lac WI way back in 1989 or so. The sign said used 1 3/4 traps $25 per dozen which was a low cost even during a fur bust. There were about 6 dozen hanging there, so I buy one string and find out there are 10 traps on the string not 12, my bad for not being more careful but over 27 years have never bought a dimes worth of stuff from the person since.

Bryce

[Deleted]

I Right on bblwi!

It's inherent of me that believe most folks are honest or can make a mistake BUT early in my adulthood I came to the realization that this isn't always true.  First one's free, shame on me if there is ever a 2nd!  (Fact of life)

I also learned from some older journeymen when I was young, that had taken me under their wing, "never cut your nose off to spite your face",

[braveheart]

I always say treat others like you want to be treated and it always works out.




www.kegcreekbaits-lures.com

[cameron1976]

Rant away. This is pretty interesting.

[Deleted]

And the saga continues-

I received my 1oz of skunk essence the other day so I waited for a nice breezy day to add it to the lure and bait.  I figured I had a problem though, when the box came in mail I didn't smell skunk and it came in an unlabeled bottle.  Hells-Bells, I got a bottle of Dobbin's Skunky Backbreaker in the mail packed inside a super heavily wrapped plastic bag of dirt and I could detect skunk!!!

Anyway, today was the day to add the skunk.  I unwrapped the tape from the cap while standing up-wind and there was no skunk when I unwrapped it.  I carefully opened the bottle and guess what?  No F-N skunk!  Up-wind, down-wind, side-wind, NO F-N skunk!  Undaunted(which means like a dummy), I started by adding 1 drop per oz and nothing, no magic skunk smell appears, so I just started pouring and after using 1/2 the bottle I stirred the lure and bait.  I can testify that I could get a very, very slight odor that MIGHT be skunk but it was so faint I'm pressed to say that there was any!  So, F-it, I added the rest of the oz and gained nothing but an oz of volume between the lure and bait!  I knew I should stop testing scents and figured that last year was in fact my last year of testing.  I should have listened to myself!

[trappnman]

today last day on gophers- been thinking about this for a spell- both specifically to the issue you bring up, and lures in general. stay tuned.

[redsnow]

I'll tell you up front, other than tinkering for myself, I've never made a lure.

A buddy of mine has more lure, old time lure, from about everyone that you can think of, more lure than 3 or 4 guys could pick up and carry at one haul. He's told me the same thing, just because it's labeled "Brand X, #1" It's a little different than "Brand X, #1", made a year or 2 later.

I'll compare making lure to curing a hog ham. Your hog ham is the exact same weight, and you use the exact same cure, yet some years they will turn out better than other years.

Unless a lure maker would have a very controlled environment, exact measurements, identical ingredients, etc, Batch #1 is going to be a little different from Batch #2. Maybe lures should have a date of manufacture?

"XXX" lure from 2010 might be a killer, and XXX from 2011 might be a dud.

But I like skunk in my lure too. I like to be able to smell it from all directions of the wind!

[trappnman]

I agree with much of what you posted.

and while I agree that there are going to be slight variations from batch to batch, the proof of a lures success is, to me, being able to duplicate that lure time after time, keeping the "being" of that lure, with the variations being in the undertones if at all. And while I too have done nothing beyond dabble in simple lures decades ago, I know that in other chemical endeavors that the order of ingredients, length of time etc are important.

I had a friend who makes weasel lure, from real glands- bring me up a competitors jar and asked me to smell- it smelled nothing like weasel, and then smelled his jar and the weasel leaped out at me. And as never says- skunk essence that doesn't smell of skunk? I mean, I'm a simple guy.....but.

Over the past 20 years, I've bought very few lures. I've been given many to try, but usually follow a line that has been proven to me. If someone I respect as a coyote trapper tells me to try something- I usually do. And I always have success.

Never, you scent test aka Charlie Dobbins, and I commend you for it. I'm not so sure in my mind, how transferable it is to have a test hole, with a singular scent going from it next to 1 or 2 similar- I suspect that the addition of a dirt hole, or visuals might have an impact of scent reactions, but I don't know.

going back to using lures that others have success on, I have to say I've not found that to be the case. one exception is rat lure, to the day I die I'll contend I'll catch the same rats, just as fast, using no lure or bait (have to qualify in fall/winter, never spring trapped)but other than that- if someone says- "this lure really slays the coyotes" I find it to be true. But again, I seldom try lures that aren't highly recommended.

go to a trapping convention, there are hundreds of lures to buy- I have trappers smell the lures, some not- and often hear "why smell, I'm not a coyote"

I'm one who smells a lure, and while I'm not a coyote, I know what I like in a lure. I like skunky call lures, and I like call and/or food lures that have some sort of sweet tang to them- give me those smells, and I know I'll do well on them.

and dang it I like stuff loud- not saying there isn't a place or time for subtle, but overall I want STRONG- which means carrying power.

Whew-

any comments?

[braveheart]

I found the same lure combo I use here all year long works just the same in Ga. on all cats and fox and coyotes.I do use some heavy skunk late but for the most part I don't use much.My Magnum has NO SKUNK in it and it works great.

[Deleted]

Apr 30, 2016 4:32:41 GMT -6 braveheart said:

I found the same lure combo I use here all year long works just the same in Ga. on all cats and fox and coyotes.I do use some heavy skunk late but for the most part I don't use much.My Magnum has NO SKUNK in it and it works great.

Maybe with some skunk added it would have tested better up here.

[braveheart]

With the Nelson formula he uses very little skunk in his stuff.I got several guys up in Mich. catch large amount of fur with curiosity lures.I like skunk when it gets cold like below 0.When working coyotes and cats when working bare open wind blown spots in heavy snow.That is when my location is not the best but the extra skunk will draw them over and the other lures will make it happen.

[motrapperjohn]

There is some skunk pods on the roof of my shop that's been there for 3 years and every once in awhile you can still smell skunk. That spelling deal is about like the guy that spells raccoon (racoon) and he sells raccoon traps. He also spells patent, (patient). Marty, pushing 15 gallons spoon bill oil with what fat I finally got. They hauled 6 barrels off 15 minutes before I got there.

[Deleted]

The spelling deal I liken to a welder, who when having finished a weld, doesn't clean the slag off.     

[RdFx]

I have just empty skunk pods that are maybe 10 yrs old and sweet they are and one can smell them when wind pushes scent toward you..... they are on top of trapping shed.... sniff sniff
;>)

[Deleted]

In all fairness, the testing of the "skunkless" bait that I added more "skunkless" tincture to and the "skunkless, civet-less" lure(remember the tape job) that I also added the same skunkless tincture to are in.

The bait is a super performer(compared to other baits that also had a digging reaction) even without the skunk that was suppose to be in it.  I contacted the bait manufacturer and he explained why the lack of skunk and that there were other ingredients that jacked it up beyond the bait's "regular" twin.  The manufacturer offered to make me what I wanted and I declined the offer.  Why did I do that you might ask?  Because I fully understand that these people's business is an integral part of their (family) living income so if I feel I need something beyond what is normally sold, I'll do it myself.  

In all of my years as the Senior in Welding Engineering, I had to make many decisions concerning whether or not a welder was fired or a contractor was run off a job.  So, I never tore down a man's house unless he ask me to because everybody usually has to support a family.  If you don't know what I mean, pm me and I'll explain it to you.

As far as the lure, only one out of three test plots showed any digging which was minor and that took it out of contention for use on the line.

[trappnman]

I've never understood why some claim to want a non digging reaction to a lure. To me, that means a lure that they really want- want it so much they take the time and effort to dig it out.

I've also come more and more to the thought that sticks, or lure holders etc, unless one truly digs every hole 12+" deep- its so very easy for a coyote to fish that stick or holder out of the hole- which is why we tend to smear the lure into the hole, and either take the stick (we use popsicle sticks) away, or push it deep into the backing