why i like screens

[trappincoyotes39]

Hey tray have you tried any Showtime bait? Also Marty's 1-11 is great stuff, I used to use a lot of Fullers 1-11 but in recent years that stuff being sold by Johnny H isn't close to what fuller made. Fuller used river clams in his he asked me once , if I had access to some clams he would take 15 gallons of them on trade for lure, during the drought years his source was dried up no pun intended.

I have made many walk thru's like that as well with varying odors coming from 2 sources. More punch holes in the hard pan out west versus nice deep narrow dirt holes. In this area easy with the drill and bit to drive in a nice deep hole most of the time. I go as deep as the ground will allow with the bit and drill.

[TRay]

Yes I have used the Showtime bait and have had good luck with it, but I still don't see the intense digging response that you talk about and I use a real deep hole. I think geography does play some factor into certain lures as I had several good ones that produced when I trapped in MT and western SD that have been much less effictive when I came east.
Funny you mention 1-11 as it used it be one if my best M-44 lures when Laugerman made it, I tried Hughes and it failed miserable, I've also used Marty's and have had good luck as a trap lure, but can't get coyotes to pull it. I just opened my last jar of 1-11 that I have from Fuller, kinda hard to do as I know it's the end of a era.

[trappincoyotes39]

I hear you I did find a few one ounce bottles on Ebay about 2 years ago, the old sq bottles with the white label, I can't bring my self to use it

Yes same deal here Tray some of what worked well in western SD just didn't do as much down here in MO. Marty's stuff though all of it has a great attraction to the coyotes and cats in this area or in western SD

sad to see many old time lure formulas that have been sold out and cheapened up and just not near what the original formulas once where. I used Russ carmens pro grade but very hard to get anymore, pro grade to me stands for his old lure formulas not the stuff being bottled up with the same name today under the yellow carmens label.

Circle maker to me is the old canine call, musk formula is another good one that gets great reaction.

[trappincoyotes39]

Here you go guys.

[ColdSteel]

I know this is getting off subject but years ago when I had only fox I carried 2 call lures and 2 gland lures didn't use any bait and those 2 lures were pros choice which used 75% of the time and canine call when the temp fell but something changed in those lures in my eyes anyway

[trappincoyotes39]

Cold steel they sure did change once carmens was sold out. The canine call went from a dark brown based lure that if let sit would separate with the oils on top, but a good shake and it blended back together nicely, now the canine call is much lighter in color not the same at all. same with the pro's choice. night and day look and smell difference.

The problem gets to be you pay good money to buy someone out, so you have that upfront cost, then you NEED someone with experience and the right conditions to make sure the lures stay as uniform as possible, then the big one ingredient cost! Some of these lures have more expensive makeups well when you add in the cost of volume of some of these, with the cost of buying out a lure business and having some formulating that just do not have the experience and know how and your trying to make a profit without a big price increase? well you get the end result a lot of times. Or if the new owner keeps one on to keep making it but says I want a cheaper formulation somI can make some profit you have little choice but to find alternatives so the new owner can turn a profit.


Hawbakers was recently sold, will be interesting to see if it stays the same or if they to end up going to a far different make up. I can only imagine what Hawbakers sold for?

[trappnman]

I do that on a limited basis TRay with good results

the main thing here, was that I was trying to catch coyotes that had seen a lot of coyotes in the sets, and were location shy. The sets lure/bait still interested them, but the ones left, just wouldn't fully commit. What I should have done, if I really needed to catch those coyotes, would have been to set up a new location, within those coyotes range. But since I was going to have an extended snow line (28 days with snow)I wanted to figure out what I needed to do with snow conditions in the future. I left those last 18 sets in 10 days longer than the rest of line and during that 10 days caught 9 coyotes and the 1 fox- that's after catching 8-9 there when I ran it with rest of line

[ColdSteel]

Tman I know what you mean on location shy the same thing happened to me this morning at one of my hot spots and I don't have snow for an excuse I should have changed locations as well i got lazy and noone to blame but myself.My only problem is this one farm is only 200 acres so dont know if I can make it work or not.I noticed today I had one to circle my trench set and had one to stand about 10 foot back one a wash and not commit to a nice blended in set in a soybean field.I guess I should find some dumb ones before I let it get personal

[TRay]

Trapperman, looks to me like the coyote did fully commit as he left a track on the pattern he could just as well come back tomorrow or in a week or two and leave tracks all over the pattern. That's just the nature of the coyote you never know what mood they are in or what there thinkin at the time. As for the idea of location avoidance I'm sure it happens some, but I think there is always some coyotes that just won't work a set for a variety of different reasons. Early in the season a guy just don't see it much cause there ain't no snow to show the tracks, I see were coyotes will circle and stand off from locations both were I have caught other coyotes or in locations I have just set up and haven't had a catch yet. Again just the nature of the coyote from time to time.

On the changing of the effectiveness of some lures while I agree that many times when a lure business is sold and a new guy is making the lure it changes. No different then a good chef cooking up a dish compared to someone who does not have the experiance, you end up with 2 completely different results. I believe a bigger issue is that some of the ingredients that were in the original formulas are now to expensive or no longer available to lure makers.

[trappnman]

Tray, I agree with your assessment=


Trappbman, looks to me like the coyote did fully commit as he left a track on the pattern he could just as well come back tomorrow or in a week or two and leave tracks all over the pattern. That's just the nature of the coyote you never know what mood they are in or what there thinkin at the time. As for the idea of location avoidance I'm sure it happens some, but I think there is always some coyotes that just won't work a set for a variety of different reasons.

I think so as well, but do think that one of those reasons is he becomes wary of that location, causing his suspicion hackles to show up. Also think that when one is catching coyotes, not catching them here and there blurs away

[ColdSteel]

Many times I have seen them bite on different things at different times of the year.I finally after being hard headed starting taking notes of my sets with lure bait combination .I know in my neck of the woods they become dirthole shy and I think location may contribute as well I know for a fact otter become location shy.I have noticed where there are lots of coyote sign the catching seems much easier almost like they have to compete against each other.I had 2 sets that connected today that I set on weak sign that connected on the 8th night no relure or urine.I also like my sets especially dirtholes to get about a 1/4 inch of rain and dry out and have that aged weather look

[trappincoyotes39]

Cold steel you can do the same weathered look with a spray bottle of water if no freezing to worry about as well.

[trappnman]

interesting you prefer the weathered look Coldsteel- I've always felt I did better on fresh sets, or even fresh remakes

couldn't agree more on the otter, I seen it many times where take one off a hot trail, esp live like we did, and it stops being used immediately- but the smaller side trials still get used. I think its the same on coyotes- after seeing several in the trap, they become shy for that particular set location- still interested as told by tracks around, but not bold enough to commit. I believe that same set, in another location, would stil lreadily take that "shy" coyote

[ColdSteel]

TC 39 thanks that what I like about this forum it was simple but it took another good trapper to think of it.Tman the weathered look helps me I almost always put in a fresh set after a catch because it just doesnt satisfy me and in most cases its the remake that produces for me.

[bogio]

click it

Montgomery traps + stiff screens = coyotes that would be missed

[trappincoyotes39]

Bogio one way is too use screen the other is to use a pan that fits the jaws well, missed coyotes with the PIT pans is very low, missed coyotes with even the larger 9C pans super, super low.

The montgomery would miss "some" because of the shape and size of the pan, the more surface covers with a larger pan acts the same as screen as far as misses go IMO and experience.

[bogio]

Dec 14, 2014 18:57:23 GMT -6 trappincoyotes39 said:

The montgomery would miss "some" because of the shape and size of the pan,

With the screen cover, the shape and size of the pan becomes a moot point. Combined with the correct bedding material and set construction, it becomes an absolutely bulletproof combination in terms misses and weather.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bogio that is it exactly, with the screen cover. Tman pointed out a trap without it and I pointed out that because of the pan size and shape and trap size that the screen becomes more important.

I know you and others who wouldn't set a trap without it. Yet there are other means and ways to achieve the same results.

This is from the Bridger 3 post again this happens more than just a few times a year with PIT pans.

[trappincoyotes39]

This is another trap I never found screen to have an advantage on. Again I know guys that like screen and lots of it is trap selection, I just choose to go another way and these traps work extremely well without screen. I have never been a screen guy and don't want to be,
If you tell me they are your ticket to success awsome, I find another avenue to achieve results is all.

[bogio]

Dec 15, 2014 6:02:26 GMT -6 trappincoyotes39 said:

Bogio that is it exactly, with the screen cover. Tman pointed out a trap without it and I pointed out that because of the pan size and shape and trap size that the screen becomes more important.

I know you and others who wouldn't set a trap without it. Yet there are other means and ways to achieve the same results.

This is from the Bridger 3 post again this happens more than just a few times a year with PIT pans.

click it

Exactly. The #3 Montgomery with the screen is a system, a package deal and a perfect one in my view. This whole thing comes down to personal preference and comfort in terms of what leads to the results that each individual feels most satisfied with. I bought my first #3 Montgomerys well over twenty years ago after reading about them through the writings of Craig O'. They were new in the box Sterling Modifies from a fellow in Kansas. Later I bought the same used from a fellow in Oregon. Two years ago I found more in Wyoming. My only regret is that in each instance I didn't have the resources to buy every daamn one that was available. Through a little guidance from 1080, I've made a couple of changes to them and now feel that they are as good as you can hope for it to be. Find what you like, stay with it and become proficient with it. Every time you reach in the trap box the same piece of equipment should come out. It should require the same steps to plant it every time. This way it becomes routine and non problematic. The coyote himself is enough of a problem to deal with without having to put any extra thought into your equipment.

The Sterlings see no benefit with screen. Even O'G said to just use waxed paper or if adjusted properly, nothing at all.

As the video shows, I too see the two foot catches and feel that is just the result of using enough jaw spread and set construction.

What is more important with the video is that it shows the importance of having a reason for the coyote to be there. The location geographically is attractive but the fact that livestock are regularly composted in the area make it a productive place to set. It makes it a consistent producer.