A Couple More Passable Ones

[trappnman]

feel free to jump in anytime lurkers..... LOL

[thorsmightyhammer]

Nope, our goals arent the same.

My business model doesnt allow me to hope that 3 4 years down teh road it will pay off.

I want to catch the maximum amount of fur I can every day.

We've talked about this before. I used ot play the percentages winter rat trapping. Set a trap skip a house or two and set another.

Main reason why is its less work. Dont have to move as much but in the end when I started to lay it down my percentages went down but my daily numbers went up.

[trappnman]

different strokes

[trapperpatt]

Got a question for ya Steve. Once you find the spot. How do u set it??

I know when you catch a few coyotes in one loc. It will go dead. Not because you caught them all either. They get location shy.
How do you plan on keeping that from happening?

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman do you feel this sytem is also about timing inside of a season?

[trappnman]

I'm not finding the good locations going dead in 4-6 checks. What they would do after that, I don't know. on a 24 check, how many coyotes are coming in fresh without seeing coyotes in traps? I would assume most- after all, they aren't all coming in at once.

as far as sets, and again undertand I am no way saying I'm the definitive expert on this- I'm just saying what works for me- big backings, big patterns, big holes, lots and lots of scent and bait.

TC- I'm sure it depends on the season- I've done spring and summer work, but only as specific ADC jobs, or random collaring when gopher trapping, I'd see sign ,I'd make sets.

For sure they hang around more home range, what they do besides that I don't know, and probably will never know, because it doesn't pertain to the time period I'm trapping.

or if you mean, does it matter this week or that week durng a general time period thats similar (ie mid to late fall) I say no, it doesn't matter

[trapperpatt]

How many sets are you putting in at a location? What kind of scent? Piss, call lure , gland lure, etc.

[trappnman]

At what I think is a "super spot" location, I put in 4 sets.

I like a lot of everything- I want that set to have so many triggers, he cannot help himself- so I use two lures at every set, I use a lot of urine and I spray my entire pattern, and I most often use 2 kinds of bait, natural pocket gopher and a prepared bait- this past year Champion, Martys, and Rks.

as far as lures, I want a skunky lure at every set- either cachottier, XLDC or martys LDC. then another lure is added, and I don't care what it is, as long as its a contrasting lure. and lots of both.

I am not a few drops of lure guy and never have been.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Jan 15, 2013 16:22:29 GMT -6 trappnman said:

different strokes

Pretty much

[trapperpatt]

You don't think you are adding to many unnatural sights and smells to a coyotes known environment?
Especially knowing the suspicious nature of a coyote regardless of the spot.

I set more natural. Try to use a coyotes own actions and habits against his ownself. Nothin more natural than a blind set when he is circling one those big nasty stinking holes in the ground.

[trappnman]

they are your traps to check.

no offense, but it seems like you either haven't read any of the research, or consider all the research invalid.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Jan 16, 2013 7:27:21 GMT -6 trappnman said:

they are your traps to check.

no offense, but it seems like you either haven't read any of the research, or consider all the research invalid.

Did you direct that to me?

[trapperpatt]

Where in my statement did I say that a coyote wasn't attracted to multiple smells and a big dirt hole for sight appeal?

[trappnman]

no.

I was asking pat if he had read the research RE: behaviors at different areas, and the links and discussions on stimuli, intereaction of groups vis a vis areas, etc.

his comment suggested either he had not, or if he had, he considers the research and subsequent discussions invalid as per his staement of blind sets being the ticket.

it comes down to this- and I've said that before and its not to bust anyone, but if loud, big dirtholes are being consistently avoided, then only 1 of 2 scenarios is possible

#1- that dirthole is a poor dirthole- there is a lot of bad information given and being accepted concerning dirtholes for coyotes. Lots of pics of "great sets!" that make me cringe. Dirtholes are not equal, nor do they perform equally on coyotes.

and don't get me wrong in that I think my dirthole is it, the absolute best one out there- I don't. I DO think its pretty damn good, and have great success for that- but I still feel I'm missing some little, or perhaps not little thing, that would elevate it to that final level.

or

#2- your sets are not in the right location- the right location, eliminates so much of the "smartness" we credit a coyote for.

and this isn't me saying this- well, yes me saying this, but not saying it alone-

the guys that are saying it- are the 1%ers, the guys that hammer the coyotes. This stuff all comes from Bill Nelson, Ern, many others down to guys like 1080 and O'G today.

so whats frustrating to me, is that the discussion has been sidetracked by directing it to me, and how I choose to use the knowledge- when the real dscussion should be YES- freaking far out that makes all the sense in the world- now HOW do I do that!!!!!!!

and not to continually discuss if its true, if its valid- it IS true- wheels are round- lets move on-

if that stops the discussion so be it- but I'm interested in trying to define the locations, not if they exist.

[trappnman]

you posted in post #71:

set more natural. Try to use a coyotes own actions and habits against his ownself. Nothin more natural than a blind set when he is circling one those big nasty stinking holes in the ground.

I posted this, in its entirety, none edited in post #72:
they are your traps to check.

no offense, but it seems like you either haven't read any of the research, or consider all the research invalid.

your response in post #74
Where in my statement did I say that a coyote wasn't attracted to multiple smells and a big dirt hole for sight appeal?

don't know- never commented on it, never mentioned it, never gave it a thought

[Zagman]

Tman, regarding the circling......or standing back.....if you are not seeing that, then what is it that IS happening near your sets that is so humbling to you in the snow?

It seems that one of your reasons for setting the "spot" is that coyotes there, according to your premise, work the sets more readily, quicker, etc. than your traditional spots.

Doesn't that imply that they DON'T work them that way at "non-spot", spots?

I certainly have never said that EVERY set by EVERY coyote gets circled, not has anyone else.....but since SOME do and we are not only setting "the spot" like you are trying to, then we will continue to see this behavior.

If you agree coyotes are neophobic, how can you poo-poo the idea that some might not just commit suicide, and run full-bore into a big hole or T-Bone or whatever wreaking of high-end commercial stink with exotic smells oozing from the hole and covered in peat moss THAT WASN'T THERE YESTERDAY the first time they smell or see the set?

What's more NEW than that?

MZ

[bogio]

In a past thread, 1080 threw me a bone. One aspect of that was this:

"There are reasons some sets get avoided, others worked freely. Not every coyote will be taken with the steel trap, Unless you have the time."

If a 1% as he has been dubbed believes that to be true it tells me that there will always be a certain percentage of coyotes that circle/fail to commit regardless of location or set construction or whatever voodoo we throw their way.

[trappnman]

and it also tells us Bogio- that in certain locations, these behaviors are less.

you told me you had a great year Bogio. Did the discussions help achieve that?

--------------------------------

Tman, regarding the circling......or standing back.....if you are not seeing that, then what is it that IS happening near your sets that is so humbling to you in the snow?

I do see it at certain locations- do you see circling at all your locations? and circling per se isn't a problem is it, if your sets are constructed right- circling to come into a set isn't uncommon- what pisses me off in snow, isn't circling, its ones that don't work the set.

It seems that one of your reasons for setting the "spot" is that coyotes there, according to your premise, work the sets more readily, quicker, etc. than your traditional spots.

thats right- according to "my" premise one reason for setting the spot. and the other, is multiple groups

Doesn't that imply that they DON'T work them that way at "non-spot", spots?

thats right

I certainly have never said that EVERY set by EVERY coyote gets circled, not has anyone else.....but since SOME do and we are not only setting "the spot" like you are trying to, then we will continue to see this behavior.

I guess you will

If you agree coyotes are neophobic, how can you poo-poo the idea that some might not just commit suicide, and run full-bore into a big hole or T-Bone or whatever wreaking of high-end commercial stink with exotic smells oozing from the hole and covered in peat moss THAT WASN'T THERE YESTERDAY the first time they smell or see the set?

ah- location?

now my turn- and really, just yes or no questions

do you think location, plays any role in how they work the set?

do you think the type of set, determines how they work it?

do you think the lure/bait has any bearing on how the set is worked?

do you think urine use, has any bearing on how they work a set?

do you think taking those factors into account, you can raise your catch % dramatically?

if yes- what of the above do you rank the highest?

in short- is this: "There are reasons some sets get avoided, others worked freely. Not every coyote will be taken with the steel trap, Unless you have the time."

true or false?

[bogio]

Jan 17, 2013 8:21:31 GMT -6 trappnman said:

and it also tells us Bogio- that in certain locations, these behaviors are less.

you told me you had a great year Bogio. Did the discussions help achieve that?

--------------------------------

I am HAVING a great year. It will end at midnight on January 31st. Not a minute sooner.

If the pictures turned out I will put up a post in relation to said discussions.

[trappnman]

still interested in the answers to these-

now my turn- and really, just yes or no questions

do you think location, plays any role in how they work the set?

do you think the type of set, determines how they work it?

do you think the lure/bait has any bearing on how the set is worked?

do you think urine use, has any bearing on how they work a set?

do you think taking those factors into account, you can raise your catch % dramatically?

if yes- what of the above do you rank the highest?

in short- is this: "There are reasons some sets get avoided, others worked freely. Not every coyote will be taken with the steel trap, Unless you have the time."

true or false?