A Couple More Passable Ones

[trappnman]

you keep mentioning you would "run more traps at more spots"

and I keep telling you- the time and distance of the line- is still a day. instead of driving 2 miles to a stop- its 10,15 sometimes 20 miles between stops.

I have a set distance or loop I want to run- one could set traps everywhere on that loop- or by eliminating locations, and having the courage to put all your eggs in one basket, you can eliminate setting 101 type locations. And knowledge ensues.

and the goal is to have that 25% ratio- and that goal, is not going to be gratified instantly (or in a few years)

[trappnman]

You have said you don't get circling, or avoidance so no need for what I do with my dogs and grass tufts....but how do you know in no-snow situations?

On the snow trapping thread, you say the opposite:

On one hand, I believe coyotes DO do the same things on bare ground as on snow, regarding how the approach & work sets, how the react to certain stimuli, etc. But on the other hand, God damn can snow coyotes be hard to trap!

I had an experience once that I'd like to share again. I was checking water traps on a 24 with about a foot of snow on the ground. I walked the same path back along the creek every day, on the edge of a cornfield and a tree belt at the creek. Ever day it seemed, fresh coyote traps walked down the trail on top of my tracks. The trail passed by a big tree, and this was before we got snaring, and I thought how easy to snare, I'd just put a stick here (on other side of trail) and bobs your uncle. I put the stick in just for fun. The next day, the coyote trail followed my path, til the tree/stick point, went around it and came back to trail on other side. Rest of time, they ALWAYS walked this new trail, forever avoiding the stick/tree route.

so thing of that- placing one stick- changed their routine

so heavens knows what all your sign and visual activity on the snow does to their innate behaviors of caution, etc

where did I say I get no circling, etc?

another mysterious "I said" myth, because the fact of the matter is once agian I never posted that, nor implied that

what I DID say (perhaps this is what you meant?) that setting where the coyote has that proper mindset, REDUCES AND ELIMINATES SUCH BEHAVIORS

so if I AM getting circling- there is a reason. And what the research shows us, is that that reason is, more often than not, the location of the trap combined with the coyotes mindset at that location.

that truly is the crux of the matter- that behaviors differ at different locations-

Mar 12, 2012, 2:56pm, zagman wrote:The whole point of my posting is to take advantage of a coyote's (many? most? Certainly not all...) propensity to circle/pace around sets.

The circling I mention is only in reference to our traps .....and thus the very reason they do it.

I am not suggesting nor have I witnessed in the snow where a coyote circles a natural grass tuft with no traps there or in the vicinity.

The whole idea is to take advantage of that inherent circling, and I therefore believe and seen it hundreds and hundreds of times, that a natural grass tuft that they have already marked is pretty good way to nail these coyotes.

And, again, I think the videos demonstrate it better than I can explain it.

MZ

question: do you believe this behavior is the same vis a vis type of location: stallout, travelway, intersection, crop changes, dead piles an a myriad of over possiblites?

because thats the whole idea behind setting on the spot- that yes, natures are inherent, but also that they are not constant- that the where, when of the coyotes presense, changes how those behviors surface or are acted upon

mark- I've seen in several places, where you said you run 2 loops over 3 wks. thats not running and gunning. Have you changed that routine?




so why not, use that behavior, rather than working agianst it?

that is why 25-30% is possible on a substained and contiual bais.

and no folks, not by me- but because I can't do it yet, doesn't mean it doesn't happen ,and someones not doing it.

[spring]

"what I DID say (perhaps this is what you meant?) that setting where the coyote has that proper mindset, REDUCES AND ELIMINATES SUCH BEHAVIORS"

I would think we would take the locations we have and force that behavior...Force his mindset is what i`m getting at....Which is what Zags has been doing for quite some time now......

[bogio]

How would you force behavior favorable to our goal in a wild animal? I would think that forcing something on them would cause neophobic behavior which we want to avoid if at all possible.

[trappnman]

would think we would take the locations we have and force that behavior

interesting- how do you force coyotes to change innate behaviors based on location and terrritory?

[bogio]

Why wouldn't you want to work with what is already natural to and wired into the coyotes behavior?

Make him think that he is running this show and that what happens is because it is what HE wants to happen.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Jan 13, 2013 17:16:46 GMT -6 trappnman said:

you keep mentioning you would "run more traps at more spots"

and I keep telling you- the time and distance of the line- is still a day. instead of driving 2 miles to a stop- its 10,15 sometimes 20 miles between stops.

I have a set distance or loop I want to run- one could set traps everywhere on that loop- or by eliminating locations, and having the courage to put all your eggs in one basket, you can eliminate setting 101 type locations. And knowledge ensues.

and the goal is to have that 25% ratio- and that goal, is not going to be gratified instantly (or in a few years)

How many miles a day are we talking? How many stops? Total traps out?

Whats the goal of coyotes per stop in a year at said stop?

I admit I know next to zero about coyotes. My only interest in this thread is more of a line management tangent.

That and I am bored. Too cold to trap rats here right now and I pretty much have all my stuff ready for a trip. Now all I need to do is heal some bruises.

[Zagman]

Yes, two loops....three weeks. Do you understand that I cannot possibly get Loop One's traps and locations all set on the first setting day?

So, yes, SOME farms have traps on them for more than a week.....most do not. On Day One, I set as many traps as I can.....from that point on, I have to check all those traps and fit in as many new sets as I can each day once I am done checking.

Some days, I get nothing new in, though it is rare. So, on Day 4 or Day 5, I still have spots on Loop One that are NOT set.

As a one man show, it gets even tougher as I transition to Loop Two.....because I never get a day with no checking and only setting traps. So Loop Two suffers even more as far as number of days I can check traps at a spot, as it can be a real struggle to get Loop Two 100% set up.

So YES, this is running and gunning....sure, a few farms have traps on them for 10 days....but most have traps for 5-6-7 days. Generally, if I can't check them for at least four days, I won't set it (this has nothing to do with thinking a coyote wont work a set until the 3rd or 4th day, I just want to check a spot for a few days to justify setting in the first place)

I said it last year......I am sure many of the locations I set are indeed the SPOT......and my doubles, triples and quads at these locations are numerous enough to validate it.

I am not asking for anyone to GIVE me anything......you keep telling us about this new change in your line and you are baffled why a guy like I WONT do it.......but I don't what it even IS! LOL

It is a little disconcerting that, as I look back through the great archives on this site and ALL the information TONS of great trappers have shared over the years.....why is this information any less "hard-earned" than what you have learned lately? Actually, its a little insulting IMO to the myriad of great trappers whom have unselfishly contributed to your site over the years.

I'd say if you have methods you want to keep secret, dont even discuss them here in the first place.

Back to THE SPOT. I will ask you one question and just give me a quick short answer.

Since you are looking for a spot where coyotes are comfy, laid back, in the mood, won't circle, and work sets with reckless abandon........I have this question:

Why do you dismiss a natural, dog-found, coyote-marked, grass tuft as a chink in a coyote's armor, regardless of it's general location?

This is a spot the local coyotes have been marking for who knows how long? It's just a step away from a blind set as far as natural, anti-neophobic approach to catching coyotes.

Again, I don't set these willy nilly......they are ON LOCATION.....whether an A-plus super hot, tons of sign location OR a lessor location, but a good one nonetheless.

The question is a simple one and using this set, to me, seems to tie right into what you are trying to do....catch a coyote that is not on alert....

You poo-poo'd this approach long before your new approach, so explain to me why you see no value in this approach that works for a lot of great coyote trappers and even this mediocre one.

MZ

[trappnman]

you ignore all my questions to you, but want answers from me?

sure-

Since you are looking for a spot where coyotes are comfy, laid back, in the mood, won't circle, and work sets with reckless abandon........I have this question:

Why do you dismiss a natural, dog-found, coyote-marked, grass tuft as a chink in a coyote's armor, regardless of it's general location?

#1- I believe that locations are not equal
#2- I believe that the PHYSICAL point of the location, is key
#3 and at the location, there is one type of set, and one set style, that will appeal to the vast majority of coyotes and by that I mean damn near all

so if one is on that location, then a dirt hole is by far the best set

IMHO, of course

so, if flat sets or post sets are by far outproducing my dirt holes- then either my dirt hole construction is wrong, or they (coyotes) are indeed showing negative inherent natures at that location

I used to find flat sets outproduced my dirt holes, and up until 3 years ago, I made lots and lots of flat sets, and going even further back, some years 80% and more flat sets running those 100 traps setting up coyote locations as told in the books

as far as pee found spots by the dogs-

I've never poo poohed it as "it doesn't work"

I've poo poohed it FOR ME for 2 reasons-

#1- I can find pee spots- and Buddy finds me pee spots as well- after all hes out every day and hes as used to coyotes and coyote smells as any dog- and I know hes redoing coyote a lot of the time without looking- because I SEE in the snow all through winter where he is constantly remarking yellow coyote snow. he also re-pees on wet gopher mounds where coyotes have peed, something we, oddly enough, see fairly often during the daytime in summer
#2- I don't want to set post sets OR flat sets. I'm a dirt hole man now, started with them, went over to a mix of step downs and flats sets, then mostly flat, then mostly step down now back to dirt holes but my dirt hole still shows its step down roots.

not commenting on the set at all- commenting on the location where it outperforms a dirthole

let me ask you a question. I'm not going to search for the exact quote- but you mentioned you "take the majority of your coyotes from your subtle grass clipping sets that your dogs find, because the inherent nature of a coyote is to circle louder sets"


and what is being said concerning the "spot"- is that in CERTAIN LOCATIONS the nature of the coyote is NOT to circle and blush and stand back- but to boldly go where they might not have gone over there.

do you agree or disagree?
---------------------------

one needs an open mind to absorb information. link after link and multiple discussions have given you the same information I've had- don't think 1080 is treating me with extra lessons- hes not, trust me on that.

I'm under the impression you think that any location with coyotes as described in any coyote book (locations 101) is as good as any other, and that the SET makes the location.

I feel 100% the opposite- I believe the location, makes the set- that at the right location, the set diminishes in importance overall- deep hole, big pattern, big backings they can't help getting caught.

the concept is simple- the spot where a multiple coyote groups stall out. Bottom line- that's it- that's it 100%- find the stall out place, that has multiple coyote groups using it- and then use a set that again research shows us to be appealing to their senses, and then use lures and baits correctly.

to further break it down- one needs to have a conviction, that the same set, the same lures, the same everything will be worked in diametrically different ways, if at all, depending on where he is and why he is there.

there ya go- simple, concise and to the point.

do not confuse my term of "more comfortable" as anything but my own attempt, to get things straight in my mind in an effort to puzzle out and understand what I'm looking for. So far, keeping the adage of more comfortable or "comfortably numb" as Bogio says in mind, is helping me go to such areas on my locations, and go from there- I offer it not as textbook fact, but as a temporary aid to those thinking these methods are something they wish to try more.

So I look for where I think the coyote is most comfortable. and his approaches to and from that. I don't know how I can be any clearer than that.



the doing is hard, but the learning is not going to be done instantly- I'm 3 years into the program, and I'm just starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I suppose I could assign homework- but that's been done- that's what all those links were for- read, think, discuss & learn.

the value of what was learned, is up to the beholder

you want a concrete answer from me- a black and white tell me now answer-

and seem to completely skip over the following sentence I've made many times- I don't KNOW the answer but by following the clues, clues I've stated over and over and over- I'm seeing the pattern emerge.

the only reason I put faith in rethinking things was that 25% you mentioned- so if running 100 traps for 3 weeks you would have 574 coyotes, or running 75 traps a week you 393 coyotes or running 50 traps a week you would have 260 coyotes instead of 100, or 150 in 3-4 weeks.

why would anyone, not try to achieve this goal- unless convinced the tenets of it were untrue? or that taking 20-25% continually day after day, east or west was impossible, and was simply hype?

but lets say- sure, 20- 25% is possible.

how did it happen? luck? sure for a night or two?

but season long luck, or year after year luck seems a stretch and if random luck can be ruled out, then there is a tangible reason for it-

and that's the discussion for those that believe the higher % not only possible, but being done.

I was catching 7-10 % running traps all over- and as I was told "empty traps are killin' ya".

I don't think there is anyone, that could do what 1080 did in IN.

I didn't think it possible

but when I knew it WAS not only possible, but was done- I wanted to know how and why-

cause I'm kinda a big cheese in this area vis a vis coyote numbers and trapping coyotes, everyone knows me as the coyote guy- dnr got a coyote call, they called me.... I was at the top of my game pertaining to coyotes.

so now I was little league? hard to accept, but OK, lets run with it-

I couldn't ignore the facts- plus when Huber told me earlier that this guy 1080 wanted to come to the forum, that he was the most knowledgeable coyote-man he, Wily, knew, and well worth listening to him on the forum- but, he could be hard to put up with, but if we could, we could learn......

no hesitation on my part-

the information we are discussing has been laid out in multiple threads, the research links have also been given in multiple threads, the conclusions by peons like me, have been made and discussed-

so to go back to discussing the shape of the table, isn't something I'm interested in, or doing.

[Zagman]

Fair enough.....and I appreciate the candor and concise manner you
laid-out in this long message LOL

What 1080 did with Andy in Indiana has very little in common with what you and I do on a fur line. While we are all trapping coyotes, that is where the similarities end.

1080's motivation to hit certain numbers is his own and I won't question that motivation.. But I know a lot of it (initially) was to disprove the notion that there are more and easier coyote catches in the west than in the east. He certainly proved that this certainly may not be the case!

And, I'd be an idiot to NOT think I could glean something from their experiences in Indiana. There was even some dialogue between Andy and I regarding having me riding with them one year.....but it did not happen.

If I start to call out the differences in a fur line vs. numbers at all costs, two men vs. one man, not skinning vs skinning, 10 days vs. a whole season, professional trapper vs. part-timer, etc., we will get into an argument that I can't win and I won't go down that road.

I would hope you would at least admit that its NOT apples to apples.......



So.........I will not juxtapose their catch to mine.....makes zero sense to make any type of comparisons.

Therefore, using their catch or catch ratio as a bar or goal to reach makes even LESS sense to me.....further, my sense is that the ratio would drop if doing this for a full season vs. 10-15 days.

Can I/would I/learn something from their experience? Well, duh, of course.

So, a better comparison is you and I.....and we've been doing this for a decade now! LOL Sparring with you is always educational, emotional, aggravating, and fun! You know, like a marriage!

I know you are not where you hope to be now and you are trying to get there, which is admirable. But today, your system vs. mine, I can't see an advantage to changing my system up.

I am a pretty level-headed bloke....even logical to some degree!

Here's where I stand now as we discuss the attributes of your system vs. mine (again, I KNOW you are not where you finally hope to be)

Fact: we are both driving the same distance each day and chewing up the whole day. Only difference, I have wages for one man to consider, and you have wages for two people (not everyday, I know) if we are looking at this from a business perspective (I'm not, but you do)

Fact: Lets assume I am averaging 100 traps per day and you are averaging 50 per day. So we are taking the same time and miles to check these two trap totals.

Fact: This year, my truck died and I had 115 coyotes in 16 checks. You had about the same number in five weeks. (last year, 120 coyotes in 20 checks for me)

So, on Day 17 this year, I am no longer trapping or spending time or fuel on trapping. I am done. Over. Kaput.

You keep your system going for another three weeks. Fuel. Time. Costs.

In the end.....we caught roughly the same amount of coyotes....me in 16 days, you in 35 days.

I mention these facts only because you have shared them and the numbers jive nicely to draw comparisons.

So, while your catch ratio is better, your costs and time (especially for two people) are FAR greater......

Now, if you said to me your goal for doing this was to only trap half the amount of time, or half a day, etc. it would make sense. But you are running the same miles and hours as I am........

I guess this is where I struggle with above juxtaposition.......

*****************************************************

You have admitted that you never bought DVD's or read books during your formative years......you learned on the job. Also, you admit you are slow at changing and even hard headed. Think about battles with all the trappers over the years on the 1.75 and the flag you carried for that trap as a coyote trap.....

I think some of the ideas and methods you are now trying , while new to your system, have been things we/I have been doing for a "long" time.

I think you assume my line and maintenance is similar to what you used to do prior to the change....and I just don't think that's the case.

I ain't Craig O'Gorman....and I ain't no 1080.....BUT I do immerse myself in this game, like you.

I, too, am obsessed with coyotes, I think about them and my line all year long (like you). Can I improve?

YES! In fact, I do it every year!

1080 and I used to be more "friendly" with each other.....heck, he even bought me dinner one year on my birthday. He bought ONLY because I lost my wallet LOL

I've spent countless hours on the phone with him and have probably 1000 PM's back and forth.....

He has a unique way of "helping" you.....asking you a billion questions, over and over.......trying to get you to think on your own. I see you are in the middle of this yourself. I know as well as anyone that he does not simply roll over and "gift" anything to you.....

He is a one percenter......in the coyote trapping world. Frankly, guys like me and catches I make are a joke to him.......his words. He marvels that someone like you and me would even be asked to do a demo! LOL

He laughed at my black belt analogy I made years ago......I am not a 10th degree black belt in coyote trapping, but I do have a belt, just not sure of the color! Green? Brown?

I felt that there were degrees/levels of knowledge out there......let's say Craig OG is at the highest level of black belt ownership. That does not mean, IMO, that a new trapper can't learn a thing or two from someone below that level......like little old me with the green belt.

I am not in a category anywhere close to the top when you compare me to what other guys do around the country......how could I possibly be, trapping two to three weeks a year?

Still, I think I have enough experience under my belt and good ideas enough to share a fire with any coyote trapper in the country and not hang my head low......

Phil Brown keeps the most copious notes of any trapper I know.....he admits to me that with RED FOX, he runs a bit shy of a 13% catch ratio year in and out, for decades, 3 or 4 months a year, and for 10's of thousands of fox.

If a guy can do better than that on coyotes vs. red fox well more power to him. I'm not saying it cannot be done......but it's a lofty goal for sure.

And by shooting for that goal, I guess, we can all only get better.

Zagman

[trappnman]

In the end.....we caught roughly the same amount of coyotes....me in 16 days, you in 35 days.



and me with half the traps.

I remember a few years ago, when you beat my high year, and you pm'd me about saying "was thinking of you". And I have pms from you, and you pms from me, stating that our mechanicals, were most likely about the same.

My rut, was that I wanted to ADC trap coyotes, meaning hitting certain areas hard, setting up all travel lanes, all spots where I knew coyotes were. And that method, gives me too many empty traps-

and since you yourself stated 7% was about as good as it gets- I know you are checking a lot of empty traps as well. even at a consistent 10%- that's still 90% empty of coyotes.

know you are not where you hope to be now and you are trying to get there, which is admirable. But today, your system vs. mine, I can't see an advantage to changing my system up.

if 7-10% is where you want to be, then there would be no advantage to changing things up. I thought I WAS were I wanted to be- I was basking in my catch %s thinking I had it all down, but I did not. I had taken my system as far as it could go- I had reached the ceiling so to speak- to go higher, I needed a different approach.

so to get out of that rut- one has to spinner fish so to speak-

Its not a competition between you or me or anyone- and never was in my mind- its a competition between you and you- and me and me.

if you want to set 100 traps- then why not set those hundred traps to have a much higher %?

We know that can be done- and to reach that goal, it necessitates driving by locations or areas, where "I can catch a coyote" and building a line of only those high % cases.

sure, its a lofty goal- but those spots are there- and as you said, I have no doubt you ARE on the spot on some locations- I was as well. but then there are those places where I, and you, and probably many others- catch a coyote or two. or locations that "looked good" and produced nothing over that 4-6 days.

so call them A, B and C locations.

it stands to reason, that if you can figure out the common points of territory overlap, when and where they occur, where the stallout areas (or come to areas) are- the A locations- then your % would be higher. If those A locations give you 25% or even more, as several of mine have over the past couple years, then your overall % would not only go up, but your overall take as well

giving B and C locations not much of a luster or incentive to set them up

The only way to maximize locations, is to eliminate those locations that do just that- and slowly, over time, build a line that is nothing but those maximized locations.

the goal, for me, is to have 100% stall out locations, and 100% overlap locations. Cause that gives me multiple coyote groups, that are there when I am, and more importantly, I'm now minimizing negative inherent behaviors by being ON those spots

by catching the maximum amount of coyotes in the shortest time (for me 4-6 days), I can move on faster.

I have a darn nice mink line- I don't trap half the spots I did 20 years ago- nor set out near as many traps- I still run 125 or so, but years ago I'd run twice that, with the same amount of catches at end of year. It took time, and effort to get that line where it is today. It will take the same, to do the same on the coyote line.

50-60 traps and 115 coyotes this year- who knows what in 5 with 100 traps?

Me- I know I want to find out!

sure, I'm passing by many locations I know I can catch a coyote or two- add in another 50 traps at such locations, and the numbers rize- but the KNOWLEDGE DOES NOT

spinner fishing- until you eliminate all else, you don't know the value, or non value of something

I know I can catch coyotes- that's not my issue or quest- my quest, is to have all my coyotes come to me, not me going to the coyotes. and not to have empty traps, or nil locations.

and to do that- to increase the bounty down the road, I have to leave my jigs and flys and crawlers at home- and spinner fish.

[trappincoyotes39]

WOW!!!!

[thorsmightyhammer]

and me with half the traps.

Is that supposed mean something?

Lets see you with half the traps yet double the time and probably double the miles driven?

Hmmm.....? I wonder which track, I'd want to take.




sure, I'm passing by many locations I know I can catch a coyote or two- add in another 50 traps at such locations, and the numbers rize- but the KNOWLEDGE DOES NOT


Why not?

As long as you know the difference and the 1 2 locations are fillers until the other spots.

Why wouldn't the knowledge rise.

I dont get it. Mark caught the same amount of coytes in half the time.

Would it be reasonable if he could trap the same amount of tme to assume he would catch double?

You get your line to where you want to be down the road what do you expect. Double?

I guessed I'm stunned a little. How can percentages trump total numbers. Especially if we are talking basically same amount of miles driven.

[trappnman]

Hmmm.....? I wonder which track, I'd want to take.


depends what station you are going for-

steven, if you don't understand why I'm doing something the way I want to do it- guess thats a shame, but means nothing to me.

heres a clue though- to find the worth of locations, I cannot catch those same coyotes elsewhere. let me repeat that- I CANNOT CATCH THOSE SAME COYOTES ELSEWHERE

I don't want to catch 10 coyotes with 100 traps at 50 locations- those coyotes are all going somewhere. My job, is to FIND that spot.

So those 50 locatons become 10, or 15 locations- and with half the traps- the same coyotes will be caught.

Its how I WANT to run my lines- I didn't know we had a standard to adhere to.......

but whats being misunderstood here- its not about me, or zags, or even your wonderment steven- its about increasing the catch %

its simple math-

locations that give you 7-10% overall
or locations that give you 20% and more

[thorsmightyhammer]

Fair enough.

We have different goals.

[trappnman]

our goals are actually the same- to catch as many coyotes as possible over a given time.

I'm trying for a quantum leap in catch %- and to do that, I need to only set locations I believe fit that pattern. As I said, I know I can catch coyotes- mechanicals are the same on a travelway as a hot spot- so I need to concentrate only finding only A locations-

going back to fishing- if you want to know the worth of a certian method- you wouldnt fish a bunch of different lures/methods first, covering the water, before trying what you wish to test/learn. You would do that first, and exclusively- even though during your learning period, you would be missing fish you know you could catch doing it another way-

but at the end of the day- assuming your test lure/method is sound, you will overcome the learning curve. Its how I taught myself to fly fish- leave the ultralight at home, and use nothing but the flyrod. and now, after doing so, I'm as confident I'll catch a trout using a fly rod, as a spinning rod.

or a right handed batter learning to bat lefty- hes going to stike out, before he has success.

where I am now- running 50-60 traps, is not where I'll be in 2-3 years.

thats what I meant about instant gratification- no way can I build new lines overnight, with different criteria. And doing that, I need to know, what I'm doing right, and what I'm doing wrong regarding choosing locations. And to determine that, I need to forsake all else- albeit slowly, over time. If I have 3-4 farms setup in an area, and get 2 at each, that tells me nothing. I'm looking for "the spot" that will give me all, or a majority of those coyotes, in a very short time, then move on.

[Zagman]

Tman....regarding "the spot"

What, if any, changes occur with the second coyote's mindset there once a coyote gets caught and coyote #2 sees that first coyote in a trap?

Also, how does the spot change in a coyote's mind once there are two or three burn circles there and he approaches his past stall out spot?

In your opinion, of course.

I know a live coyote in a trap is an attraction, I am just asking if you feel these spots change at all once you start catching there.....

MZ

[trappnman]

sure, over time lots of caught coyotes are going make an area different- thats why 1080 preaches take them all NOW. sadly, I still struggle with setting more than 2-3 traps, but did set several locations with more and that too will improve.

if I really had the system down pat, I'd be gone in 3-4 days max- set 6-8 traps on most locations, get them all in a couple nights, move on

it doesn't seem to make any difference short term, esp when you are getting coyotes out of traps everyday. Where I had doubles, I had multiple doubles. Eventually, once I get it all down, every location will have at least 4 traps- many did this year. had one location triple, double, singleton, singleton, nothing singleton & pulled. You are always going to leave some.

not sure what you mean by "his past stall out spot"

but if talking catch circles, I was once again decided to have a fresh set in at all locations- and found it not to be worth the effort and I'm done with that experiment- multiple catches were almost always in the remake sets, very rarely a fresh set.

[Zagman]

Is whatever that made this a stall out spot before you started trapping changed at all after you start whacking coyotes there, burn circles, live coyotes, blood, etc.

We all have had locations go dead after we whack a few coyotes.....do coyotes change their comfort with that location once you start killing their kin?

MZ

[trappnman]

nothing changes about the spatial/physical location. it will continue drawing as long as coyotes are around.

do coyotes change their comfort with that location once you start killing their kin?


doesn't appear to be so in the time period I'm staying.

but you need to factor in this- while some coyotes I have no doubt, are not going to be caught, and I'll never know they were there- but with multiple groups, a true criteria for "on the spot" setups (and something that is nebulus to me at best- but am making progress), and a location that is the "come to" spot for every coyote around, I'm getting a bigger pool to work with.

thats why I need to know, what locations are multiple groups, and true come to spots.

I know a guy last year, that took 80 some coyotes out of 1 stockyard. now thats come to spot-

I think the reason those 1 and 2 coyote spots go dead, is that the 1 or 2 coyotes that used that route, are now dead. and those are the types of locations, leave the traps in, and everyonce in a while, another will pass by.

So many times a farmer tells me- I always see 2 coyotes down there- I go there, see the sign, set up, get the 2 coyotes in a night or two- then it goes "dead".