Midwest coyotes

[bogio]

In rereading previous threads of late, 2 statements jumped out and have me wondering. First was that some would rather drive 50 miles to set a killer spot, bypassing lesser locations. Secound was that midwest coyotes have been shown to have ranges they inhabit of about 7 miles. In looking at my own line, I'm was surprised to find that miles driven to maintain line vs. actual miles out as the crow flies was a 7 to 1 ratio. Very little back tracking but a lot of winding back and forth.

Is any one operating in midwest or eastern areas driving anywhere near 50 miles to set a location and if so why? I can understand that if you live in one of the "black desert" areas you will have to travel to get into suitable habitat but once there, is anyone spreading themselves out to this extent?

Tman and Zagman have both indicated miles per day. How do your miles driven compare to miles out from base as the crow flies? How about you Seldom? Anyone else.

[seldom]

Jul 19, 2012 9:17:46 GMT -6 bogio said:

In rereading previous threads of late, 2 statements jumped out and have me wondering. First was that some would rather drive 50 miles to set a killer spot, bypassing lesser locations. Secound was that midwest coyotes have been shown to have ranges they inhabit of about 7 miles. In looking at my own line, I'm was surprised to find that miles driven to maintain line vs. actual miles out as the crow flies was a 7 to 1 ratio. Very little back tracking but a lot of winding back and forth.

Is any one operating in midwest or eastern areas driving anywhere near 50 miles to set a location and if so why? I can understand that if you live in one of the "black desert" areas you will have to travel to get into suitable habitat but once there, is anyone spreading themselves out to this extent?

Tman and Zagman have both indicated miles per day. How do your miles driven compare to miles out from base as the crow flies? How about you Seldom? Anyone else.

Nope, 50 miles to a smoking set location isn't for me. I really don't pay attention to miles driven in the course of my day on the lines, I only pay attention to time. I don't rush, nor do I set goals for myself, I know that I'm going to be doing what I do every single day for 4 months. I retired from the goal setting treadmill and anything similar would turn my enjoyment into a job. I just sort of dawdle along enjoying myself and watch everybody else rush by. So, I trap all species within about a 25+/- mile radius(as the crow flies) of my house plus there's all the ziggy-zagging within it that I do. This of course is a limiting factor on catch numbers of all species I trap but I'm happy with it and have no intention or desire to change.

Once I definitively figured by map, how many miles I needed to drive in order to have a 100 mink year using my mink catch ratio/set. It came out to be a 200 mile line(s). It was only good for a map reading exercise! ;D ;D ;D

[braveheart]

I just bounce down the road every 5 mile before a stop for coyotes.

[RdFx]

braveheart , you using a ford trapline vehicle?
(bounce down the road ) LOL

[trappnman]

if I lived in a place that had unsuitable habitat for coyotes, and areas 50 or more miles had good concentration type habitat I wouldn;t hestiate for a second.

Good example when up in the U.P. last weekend, lost of that country is bush country, and there is nothing to really concentrate coyotes. Yet, 50-60 miles away, was a surprizingly large amount of big dairies- I offered my advice if it was me that lived there, I'd get permission on all those farms. Better to drive 50 miles and be on coyotes vs dinking around where there are few.

my lines are like petals on a half of flower- the Mississippi blocks me off totally on one side but then have 5 loops- the furthest I go to start a loop, is 30 miles or so, that more than likely will increase as we expand this year.

I truely feel, based on the learning curve of the past 2 years vis a vis setting THE spot vs setting spots, is that if I could be ON the spot, I could set heavy and be gone in 2-3 days taking the bulk of coyotes at that location during that time snapshot.

I' never before have had 3 locations in one year, that not only gave me consective doubles 1st 2 nights, but then 3 more in as many days and that was with 2 traps.

I KNOW that knowing THE spot, is critical unless, like that bitch 2 weeks ago, one wants to set and wait.

one loop is close to 200 miles, all over 125 but this year will be extending out in 2 directions so would expect to have a couple loops 200 plus.

[bogio]

I agree totally with your first statement Tman.

I think I may have taken that 50 mile analogy out of context. The person posting it was repeating it from another and so it is quite possible that the originator was talking a scenario such as you are describing. It was referenced while discussing "THE SPOT" and as such I took it to mean that this person felt that there were locations in suitable habitat that warranted bypassing all others to set it. 50 miles here takes you across 2 counties and considering the 7 mile range findings would have you bypassing many many coyotes in my part of the state.

Rereading my post, the 7 to 1 statement sounds like I'm trying to validate the 7 mile range findings. Not my intent. Just wondering how far out others range in relationship to miles driven. I am expanding my own range considerably this year to increase my take, hopefully considerably.

Seldom, anyone trapping coyotes has to be doing for the enjoyment cause it sure ain't for the money!

[braveheart]

I had a Ford for 6 mo. once never again.My trap range is 9 counties.On coyotes my first stop is behind my house.

[trappincoyotes39]

midwest coyotes have smaller home ranges and higher densities than many western areas, key is to not set too many traps and areas on the same group of coyotes.

[trappnman]

I agree TC- but isn't the key to set in areas where multiple groups occur?

[trappincoyotes39]

yep filters/funnels what ever you want to call them.

I think people get hung up on alot of sign and think and endless supply of coyotes and over set a farm or two and the catch drops off quickly.

Key locations can produce for longer periods of time, with little drop off. Even if you don;t have permission on the surrounding areas.

I have a place down this way that is dynamite, wildlife refuge along a major drainage and have private round to trap this fall that adjoins it, the majority of coyotes travel through this area, should be a banner harvest. set THIS place and move onto the next. Not messing around with the hunting corridors, I want the travel corridors to and from that is where the vast majority will be.

Spokes on a wheel, I want the 2-3 spokes that link travel not the other 3-5 that are for hunting by these coyotes.

[RdFx]

39 hits the nail on the head on setting the travel corridors and the other hunting corridors yotes will come eventually to the travel corridors..... using this method you save alot of miles and sets that dont produce regularly BUT you harvest maximum yotes for time spent.

[seldom]

Jul 20, 2012 8:10:52 GMT -6 trappnman said:

if I lived in a place that had unsuitable habitat for coyotes,....

Good example when up in the U.P. last weekend, lost of that country is bush country, and there is nothing to really concentrate coyotes.

You look for what TC39 described. Even in the bush, you can identify coyote travel and hunting corridors as well as actual hunting areas. Just because there isn't a dairy farm with it's hay fields, farm lanes, and dead piles present doesn't mean there aren't coyote's in the bush with it's tag alder swales/swamps, cut-overs, waterways, logging trails, etc. and above all else, PREY!! Things appear different on the surface but the reason "why" is the same in my opinion.

Several years ago a property owner called me on an early October evening just after dark. He was standing in his backyard and had me listen over the cell phone to three groups of coyotes yipping away in three different directions. He said it's pretty much the same thing every nightbjust different directions. There are no crop farms within a 8-10 mile radius of him and no dairy farms for 20+miles, it's all brush, thick woods, and swamps to hell and gone! Doesn't sound like unsuitable habitat to me or him! ;D

[bogio]

Is there access into an area like that that gives you contact with a large percentage of the coyote population?

[bogio]

TC,

Do you think of these travel corridor locations in terms of "THE SPOT"? You are talking setting 2 or 3 spokes where as Tman and 1080 are talking more of a singular location if I'm reading correctly. Am I reading correctly?

[seldom]

Jul 21, 2012 20:08:05 GMT -6 bogio said:

Is there access into an area like that that gives you contact with a large percentage of the coyote population?

Access is limited by the receptiveness or lack there of, of private property owners and the ability to traverse public lands once the deer hunting seasons are done. For me in my territory I've found that in order for me to access a trappable population of coyote I have to capitalize on whatever the population in areas that the multitude of houndsmen and "walk'em-up" hunters here find too difficult or can't.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bogio where those spokes meet are the so called "spot". The area where the majority of the coyotes come through and to!

I had a long drainage called cherry creek ran for 40 or so miles next to the indian reservation endless coyote supply, they would follow this drainage to and from. Along this drainage was a side draw hooked in at a flat bottom of this area up the side draw 1/2 mile was an old dead pile, sand pit and active p dog town, no coyote worth it's salt traveling this long drainage could refuse this location, put the maximum amount of coyotes in that area here. I could trap it or snare it, the trails along this side draw and the smack dab bottom and do very well, in the winter add some fresh carcasses and it was on.

This worked great as the rancher to the south and west had sheep I could stay there until March picking up those coyotes that used this drainage as a denning location generally 3-4 family groups would set up along this drainage.

Cover, food (sheep) and water (cherry creek) with little human activity back in there until late summer. Indian reservation with constant influx of coyotes 3 miles down cherry creek.

[trappincoyotes39]

the point being, the only differance between here in MO and SD is the scenary changes the locations stays the same. Travel funnel to milling location all the same just different things that make it such across the country.

One can never just look at shear coyote numbers as one area that hot location might be good for 12-15 coyotes and to another guy with a higher density those locations will net 2x's that amount.

[bogio]

Your description of the Cherry Creek area better tells me what you are looking for as opposed to 2 to 3 spokes of the wheel.

So in a fall/winter fur trapping scenario, you would prefer to set on these spots long term picking up travelers rather than creaming off the coyotes short term and continuously moving to fresh donors?

[trappnman]

an old adage is one can catch a traveling coyote easier than a homebody

and research, to a degree, backs this up.

and yes, I used to believe in that 100%.

and did ok, setting traveling routes and lanes.

I'll freely state loud and clear and without reservations, that what changed this notion, was the discussions here and the points brought up by 1080.

now granted Indiana is "asss deep in coyotes" but what occurred there by 1080 and Andy was nothing short of mind-boggling.

in 3 nights, they caught more than I do in a year.

yes, traps and mileage are important parts of this- but there had to be more, and slowly, through the discussions, that more has been revealed.

Remember all the research threads- threads that many pooh poohed and said doesn't matter, its meaningless research and doesn't apply to the real world?

I decided that coyote behavior does matter (I got there kicking and screaming, but I got there), that you can set 2 sets for a singular coyote- and WHERE that set is, makes all the difference in the world.

Anyone that traps coyotes in tracking conditions (read that as mud or snow) has seen where a coyote has passed within feet of a set- never hesitated, never slowed down, never gave that set a second look-

and a 100 yards away, that coyote make a directional turn off off his pattern, went direct to the set, and there he is.

Why? 2 identical sets, same offerings- but one was ignored, one was successful.

luck? perhaps..............

or perhaps not..............

and if not- why?

the logical conclusion is location- that one trap was in a better location, than the other.

yet- in both cases, that coyote was THERE (meaning aware of the set)

so we need to ask the question- WHY was the location important?

to me, looking at the surroundings in minute detail, they were the same- roads, fields, trees, brush, etc.

the sets were the same......the locations were the "same" vis a vis surroundings.

so we come to the only variable left to consider- was the COYOTE the same(not meaning same animal, cause it is) but meaning same mental state of the coyote.

and that's where the discussions on research, etc come into play- research gives us a snapshot of that coyote in certain time frames, certain circumstances, certain conditions.

and taking all that research, adding in what I did know- allows me to come to only one conclusion, that the coyote reacts differently to stimuli (and that's all a set is, is stimuli to entice a coyote) depending on where and when he becomes aware of (if he does so at all) your set.

so we come to words that some, like me, take to heart, and others discount as insignificant, and that's that you will catch more coyotes quicker by setting AT the SPOT then setting around the spot (meaning travelways).

that the mindset of a coyote, is as important, and in fact more so important than your set or lures or anything mechanical you might do.

[trappnman]

"Bogio where those spokes meet are the so called "spot". The area where the majority of the coyotes come through and to!"

maybe, maybe not-

I had an area (the sand road for those that have seen our video) where coyotes were travelling daily- it was "the spot" insofar as plenty of coyotes on a regular if not daily basis.

setting that "spot" gave me 1 coyote in 2 weeks (2 different years) trapping.

but finding "THE SPOT" last year, changed that.

and that SPOT, was 50 yards way from "the spot" set previously.

same coyotes, same sets...............