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Post by mustelameister on Dec 24, 2011 18:42:40 GMT -6
Got nearly a hundred of 'em out now in area streams, open side sloughs, bleeder streams, creeks, open current in marshes, etc. Wow . . . feel like a kid again running traps. These are fun!
The personal learning curve accelerates week after week, with respect to stream position (pre-deep hole, post-deep hole, overhanging vegetation, etc), current, debris blockage, looking for the "used" side of a stream, etc.
Most of 'em are set "bottom edge" style, one on each side. In many situations they're set side by side in the middle of a bleeder stream.
The catch percentages out of total traps checked are not phenomenal, yet respectable. Definitely worth the time and for sure a worthy addition to the packbasket.
A book I've lost over the years but whose title now comes to mind often was Gerry Barcella's "Marshland Wanderer". Wanderer. Thought that was a term reserved for the mink. I stand corrected. The 'rats I'm picking up in those out of way places that I think are minky looking, far from the frozen marshes (which, by the way, are not safe to walk on for the most part yet), are picking up large muskrats . . consistently.
My initial shift in thinking that muskrats were primarily single home dwellers throughout the course of a winter came from my buddy who explained the migration of 'rats from shallow huts to deep huts throughout the winter. Okay, experimented and confirmed. Makes sense.
But now the "wandering 'rat" syndrome. As I shake another 'rat from the colony trap into the packbasket I catch myself shaking my head and looking around at what? A stream in a pasture? A stream in a field? A bleeder stream three feet wide that is a hundred yards from the cattails with no visible huts? 20 yards down from a bridge in a wooded area. 'Rat habitat? Scarcely.
Last year I pounded an area the size of 5 acres hard for two months with #110s. Bottom edge types. Posted the pictures here. Losses were tremendous from predators. But I wanted to see what recruitment there would be a year later.
This year I'm running no #110s. All colony traps.
It's as if I wasn't even there last year. And this year I'm scoring mink in the colony traps. In this five acre area I only scored 3 mink last year. This year I've already taken 4, 3 males one of which was a dandy. Male and female from the same colony trap. Today's nice buck mink shared the colony trap with a mouse. What the heck was a mink doing with a mouse under the surface of a bleeder stream?
The nontargets so far have been fun. Crayfish, large ones, trout and suckers.
Very enjoyable. Easy to hide. 4-day check.
I'm hooked!
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Post by blackhammer on Dec 24, 2011 19:33:41 GMT -6
I got so hooked on them I had trouble forcing myself to use other traps. lol This year I am using many more small stream feed beds with one and halves, which have been money too.Much like I trapped more in my youth.But still loving those colonies,only three colony mink so far a little less than the last few years but on course to have best numbers ever on fall,early winter rats.Rats do move around more than you think and my colonies are there waiting for them.
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2011 8:43:17 GMT -6
MM-
But now the "wandering 'rat" syndrome.
very very VERY true- its how I can stay in the same locations for months, with, as you say-
The catch percentages out of total traps checked are not phenomenal, yet respectable.
my term for it is "nomads"- and the same thing you have noticed on marshes, is very true on small streams as well
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Have to say I like colony traps- and blackhammer, I think of your above comment many times and could see the temptation, and if I had more "ideal" setups I'd use more than i am- it still tickles me to see a rat caught in one.
I have one, that has given me 1 rat, out of every check since I set it, except last check. Others that are consistent, but not as good as the first one I set. And oddly, I've taken no multiples yet.
I do find that, in my eyes, my locations are limited on my type of streams, but the learning curve is just starting. So far, the only places that I "can" set up are places I put in BE sets before, and I'm having far more success with colonys, than 110s. I too, have zero 110s out.
On my type of setup, I could see where a wing coming off the trap on the water side, would be a big benefit- or bigger colonies of course- the ones I'm using are WI legal. Next year, I'll make my own that are widier, wih a folding wing on the one side.
no mink as of yet, but I'm waiting................
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Post by RdFx on Dec 25, 2011 9:52:32 GMT -6
The wandering rat! Makes sense as in many years past when i was in grade school i had traps set for the entire season on a non rat looking stream close to my walk to grade school. I consistantly took rats, not everday but they came from somewhere. Thanks Mike for bringing back early memories.... I didnt have bicycle yet but bought one with my 25-50 cent rats...then i set up a long bicycle line...LOL... Bike had BIG wide steer handle bars which i hung my traps and rats from..... got some weird looks from people that didnt understand.. My grade school buddies that trapped understood....ahhh for the simpler times with no worrys except maybe a flat tire on bike....LOL
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Post by trappnman on Dec 25, 2011 9:55:15 GMT -6
Bike had BIG wide steer handle bars which i hung my traps and rats from
add a big wire basket in front, and you got my first rig.
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Post by RdFx on Dec 25, 2011 16:53:08 GMT -6
Yea Steve, i bought a packbasket from Hawbakers the next year and carried everything in there. Also learned quickly about bending over with packbasket on back checking traps!!!.... my gear was dirty anyway and needed a washing....LOL... i found everything except some loose 22 shells i had in basket....
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Post by rk660 on Dec 25, 2011 22:31:56 GMT -6
you willl find streams in winter will perk up every couple weeks or so if staying on same location for an extended time. say for instance a given creek is one of them 10 yard wide, 3-6' deep deals that is not that easy to set, but has one shallow spot that ideal to block down and has all bases covered, the "all" edge spot. you catch the local-yocals within 100 yard ea direction in 10-14 days time, usually less, but then after a dead week you pick up 2-4 more in one check, then a few stragglers, then dead a spell. then same thing happens again. them creek rats im about certain. have a home range that isnt too large, but then move back and forth to other home ranges every so often. thats when s spot perks up again. you see it on warm spells alot, and it doesnt even have to melt off the surface ice. get to mid Feb-1st mar, depending on latitude, and you'll see a rather large movement occuring under ice 2-3 weeks before ice out and the spring run, and its a constant affair. Creek rats I do feel prolly do more drifting like this than marsh rats, probibly as food isnt near as abundant as a cattail marsh w/ a meal at the end of every cattail stalk.
Another set that shouldnt be overlooked on creeks are baited colonies w/ corn in divits into bank or any small feeder trickles. Creek rats sucker into corn a lot more readily than marsh rats.
Talking about mink, the swift trickles and seeps behind beaver dams will catch a lot of mink, as usually every one has a mink hanging around. There is a way to set up a covered colony trap in an artificial rat run that kills both rats and mink, although I seldom use it just for rats. I mentioned this one over 10 years ago on another site, but I doubt it was given a second look back thens. LOL, now with all the new numbers of trappers discovering colony traps and learning how to use them, it will get used and claimed as a "new" method by someone shortly. you guys prolly know the type im talking about.
I do enjoy following the success of guys like Mike have just began colony trapping and seeing their learning curve increase. Its kinda interesting to see who catches on quickly from simple run and den trapping to more ambush type trapping. Wasnt too much info on them 30 years ago besides simple run trapping, and the rest was learned trial and error w/o much in the way of a good starting point for me years ago. I see guys learning what took me 5-7 years to learn, learn same stuff in a a year or 2 having a good foundation to start with. Then again, maybe im just a slow learner.
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wbg
Demoman...
Posts: 182
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Post by wbg on Dec 27, 2011 7:26:59 GMT -6
I've been using colony traps or divers,as they are some times called for over 40 years. No doubt about it they are real rat catchers. However I don't see the point in dealing with the extra bulk unless making multiple catches,why not just plop in the appropriate sized conni? For example here in Maine I seldom use them, low rat population, but when trapping south jersey I'll set all I can carry. I have noticed migrating rats as well on my Mink lines, seems more prevalent the closer you are to larger water, such as a river.
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Post by mustelameister on Dec 27, 2011 8:41:52 GMT -6
However I don't see the point in dealing with the extra bulk unless making multiple catches,why not just plop in the appropriate sized conni? 'Cause the doggone predators were killing me last year! This being the first full year colony traps are allowed I decided to just run colonies in the open water. So far my % damage is zero. A dead 'rat in a #110 in this area has a very good chance of being eaten by eagles, otter and mink. Then you've got the wandering 'coon, owls, hawks, etc. Maybe I'm using the colonies more for the protection of the trapped 'rat than I am hoping for multiple catches. And no empty snapped traps!! |
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wbg
Demoman...
Posts: 182
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Post by wbg on Dec 27, 2011 10:59:43 GMT -6
That sure is some bad predation! I have some chewed up each year, mostly by Mink occasionally Otter, nothing serious though. Worst damage I encounter is done by common Rats when trapping tidal waters down south. Glad the divers are working for you!
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Post by trappnman on Dec 27, 2011 11:11:38 GMT -6
a dead rat on land like a beaver crossing , is more apt to be eaten by shrews it seems for me, than anything else.
hawks take a few floating in water and pull them to shore, mink take a few, lose a mink to coyotes everyother year or so but thank the lord not many great horned owls around- can they do a number (continous and nightly) on a rat line
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Post by RdFx on Dec 27, 2011 19:48:27 GMT -6
Ditto on the Great Horned Owls....Steve... In one area i dumped skinned rat carcasses on exposed stumps in swamp where i trapped rats....the talon tore up rats just about stopped after doing that. Of course the eagles and hawks stopped by also and that helped alot too....
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Post by thebeav2 on Dec 27, 2011 20:51:06 GMT -6
To bad we as Wisconsin trappers can't fully utilize the real potential of the colony trap. You just can't believe how effective they can be with out restrictions. My buddy makes this statement . The restrictions placed on the colony trap are like giving a guy a porn flick and then tying his hands behind his back.  |
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Post by mustelameister on Feb 26, 2012 7:26:37 GMT -6
More joy: was up to see the folks in La Crosse yesterday and took 91 'rats to Wiebke's for a look-see before thinking about putting them on the May sale. Offered $11.54 average. Took it. Will take the rest of 'em up there in a week or two.
Saw a pile of frozen 'rats in the carcass dumped out of a large cardboard box fresh from the Dakotas. In that pile was a huge mink. Was told this was typical for the Dakotas. Sure make my mink look scrawny!
Took the river road home to Prairie du Chien then up the Wisconsin River. 'Rats sure look like they took a whack on the big river this year. Not much water in the back marshes off the highway.
Me thinks these high 'rat prices are gonna hang in there for next year.
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Post by thebeav2 on Feb 26, 2012 7:58:13 GMT -6
I made some of those winged colony traps and they work to perfection. Instead of using 2 traps to block a small stream One with a double set of wings worked great. worked great In culverts also. But they do have tendency to divert more debris Into your trap and If It's not staked down can move your trap out of position.
To bad we can't get the true potential out of our colony traps here In WI.
No guides no culvert trapping no add on wings what a waste.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 26, 2012 8:33:48 GMT -6
for the little I used them this year, was happy with the reusults. never did get a double- but only put them in use on streams i'd trapped for many weeks- at the begining, have no doubt I'd get doubles and more
it did amazes me on some creeks, on how much crap got into the traps.
On those that had a quite a bit one checking, never caught a rat.
do you think the debris matters or just a coincidence?
beav- did you angle the wings, or have them at a 90?
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Post by thorsmightyhammer on Feb 26, 2012 10:35:59 GMT -6
Me thinks these high 'rat prices are gonna hang in there for next year.
Rat prices arent going anywhere as long as they are selling ranch mink for a cool hundred.
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Post by thebeav2 on Feb 27, 2012 9:28:36 GMT -6
if It were me I would set up a few colony traps with wings on them. You could put four wings on them so that you would be set up for all situations.But I would have at least have two on some of them. My traps were 9x9x30 with a set of 9x9 wings on them. if you were setting up bottom edge type sets you could just let one wing fold up against the side of the trap or you could just use a twist tie to hold It In place.
When I set mine up I set the wings at a angle to the trap opening. I think that will give you a better funneling action then having the wings set at a 90deg angle to the trap opening. Just think of all those little seeps that feed the main stream and what a winged colony trap could do for you.
Once you have played around with this tool you will grow to like It.
Trash In the water Is always going to give you fits just like It does when using regular bottom edge sets.
And of coarse I have to make this disclaimer for all the WI trappers and wardens reading this post. I was not using them In WI
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Post by seldom on Feb 27, 2012 10:35:54 GMT -6
if It were me I would set up a few colony traps with wings on them. You could put four wings on them so that you would be set up for all situations.But I would have at least have two on some of them. My traps were 9x9x30 with a set of 9x9 wings on them. if you were setting up bottom edge type sets you could just let one wing fold up against the side of the trap or you could just use a twist tie to hold It In place. When I set mine up I set the wings at a angle to the trap opening. I think that will give you a better funneling action then having the wings set at a 90deg angle to the trap opening. Just think of all those little seeps that feed the main stream and what a winged colony trap could do for you. Once you have played around with this tool you will grow to like It. Trash In the water Is always going to give you fits just like It does when using regular bottom edge sets. And of coarse I have to make this disclaimer for all the WI trappers and wardens reading this post. I was not using them In WI Is it within the law in WI to use pieces of fencing that are NOT attached to or an integral part of the trap Beav? |
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Post by thebeav2 on Feb 27, 2012 13:32:59 GMT -6
NOPE
We can only use natural fencing And that means you can't place It to use It as guides. It has to be already established. So If you dragged in a log or rolled a rock off the bank to use as I guide you would be In violation.
I can place a 100 160s or 110s In all kinds of locations and use all the guides I can come up with but I can't guide a rat Into a colony trap
The whole thing Is joke.
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