the joy of colony traps and the wandering muskrat

[packerfan]

Steve, if you are talking CHANNEL sets, I agree. BE sets, I do not. MY BE sets are set on points,not straight edges. SE sets will catch rats, BUT you will catch MORE at the next point. Blackhammer, I agree, but I aready have the #160's from road trapping coon. I got rid of all my #110's.

[jim]

How does funnel traps compare to colony traps for rats. Also what is preferred a wire mesh or sheet of flashing for the funnel?

Jim

[trappnman]

very true packerfan, i am talking, I guess channel sets-

my banks here tend to be one of 2 things- either flat slopeing, usually sand/fine ground- or high clay/dirt banks

so its hard for me to find projection points. (I know I know seldom- get the video! and I will) and when I did, I had fair success in them- indeed, one of my 3 true triples- 3 sets die by side was in BE on point sets, all about 8 feet aprt. caught a few singletons there that year as well- next year poof that location no longer existed. My other two as a point of interest were 1 set in 110s in a row along a vertical bank about 5 feet apart- odd, cause its a low % set for me and the other in 3 underbank blind sets in a row. doubles are fairly common or a couple at a stop on 3 day checks- but those true triples sure make the day!

anything deep enough to cover a trap, seems to be on a cut bank at best, vertical at worst.

I had mixed success with middle of the stream colonies this year.

one location, was a spring run, and I could see where a log was sunk lengthwise in it, with just room enough to put a colony on each side. I did this late in season, and its a long meandering spring and not worth trapping with footholds because its too hit and miss- I trap the stream it enters- but set those 2 at the end and got a few- I thought maybe it anyplace to take a mink, that would be it, and next year, will have colonies with guides set up every 50 yeads or so and see what happens.

other was (calvin you know this creek, its by our mutual friends house) a small creek, where I set two in the middle for a bit, then on the sides at the end of the "big pool", and caught nothing. yet, footholds did well.

what i should do, is hit the marshes water opener next year with 100 of them, and screw the coyotes

ok seldom.what does the Hmmmmmmn mean

[seldom]

Well I took this-

While the BE set is a good one, on rats at least I think for whatever reason, rats often go around BGs, esp on harsh edges, where with a colony, they don't.

Added it to this-

my point more was the colonys I used, were for all practical purposes the same entrance size as a 110, and the 110 offered an open entrance, whereas the colony doesn't.

And those two added up to Hmmmmmmmm!

Now I thought we were talking about BEs right along but in your reply to Packerfan-

very true packerfan, i am talking, I guess channel sets-[/quote]

Hmmmmmmmm! Now I'm confused!

[seldom]

Feb 28, 2012 11:33:42 GMT -6 packerfan said:

BE sets, I do not. MY BE sets are set on points,not straight edges. SE sets will catch rats, BUT you will catch MORE at the next point.s.

That is absolutely correct on my water!

With this exception that I tried to explain previously. Many folks call Packerfan's SE a BE because it is but it's linear(concrete box-type bridge)instead of a BE at a projection or point!

I only set those bridges up after freeze up because that's where the mink and rats are but I use larger traps due to the fact that they don't have to swim tight to the corner of wall/floor BE! That is an example of a linear BE to me!

All of my open water BEs are tucked into grooves undercutting a projection/point, pointed rock edge, broken concrete outside corner, etc. all of the soft locations can only be set up with traps no larger than a110-size trap whereas the hard structure will accommodate a larger trap. If you've read Smythe's book you'll remember he also used 55s because the vast majority of his BE locations not only wouldn't accommodate a taller trap, he didn't need a larger one due to how tne animal used the location!

[trappnman]

All of my open water BEs are tucked into grooves undercutting a projection/point, pointed rock edge, broken concrete outside corner, etc.

I can find no practical way to anchor such

thats were colonys are nice- wire a stake at the surface if need be

SE, CE, BE......

[packerfan]

The bottom line is.......Where colony traps FIT PERFECT (Beav's ND culverts or MY farm ditches) and there is ONLY ONE path on the bottom, they are the BEST! It's almost not fair. LOL!

[mustelameister]

Feb 28, 2012 11:33:42 GMT -6 packerfan said:

MY BE sets are set on points,not straight edges. SE sets will catch rats, BUT you will catch MORE at the next point.

Agreed.

Here we have a nice sized 'rat house on the left hand side with a small stream flowing nearby, clear of ice this winter. Runs were difficult to find due to the shallow water around the hut. Run were emerging in the cattails and under the marsh grass. Set location is center right in the background.



To take this pic I moved just to my left. What's important here is the channel that's flowing under the green flagging. Note the current is flowing towards us. This channel flows straight towards the flagging, then hooks to the right almost 90 degrees.



Three 5x5x24 colony traps side by side under the marsh grass spanning the width of the channel in this stream, hugging a log on the right side. 'Rats swimming up this channel must turn right to continue up the stream. There are two drowned 'rats total in these three colony traps. Which one(s) hold the 'rats?



Marsh grass pulled back and . . .



looking closer . . .



both 'rats are in the colony trap closest to the obstruction, the projection point.

Pic I posted before. Current flowing from left to right. Another log jutting out into channel with colony trap tucked just "around the corner". This is the set that yielded 3 mink and a handful of 'rats.



In streams I frequent during the winter in this area I'm real tempted to spend some time this summer laying in some small logs like this and anchoring them pointing downstream and just far enough into the stream to allow a colony trap to be set up behind them.

It's been an exciting time with these colony traps. And I do like the consistently larger wandering 'rats caught this time of year..



(yea, I know they're upside down, I just don't know any better)

[thorsmightyhammer]

I hang my rats the same way.

Reason why is I dont want to push the nail into the nose all the way.

If WI doesnt have any regulations against putting colonies side by side like Muskrat has shown thats a good alternative to fencing.

[thebeav2]

Nose up nose down makes no difference I do It both ways. My wood has a hole on the tail end and I hang my wire rats from the nose.

[packerfan]

Steve, it's the ONLY choice we have. I would rather carry 6 conibears (and use natural fencing) under a bridge, than 6 colony traps (using 5 as fencing). Either way, I will have most of the rats out in a few checks. No point in getting into a debate over whether or not I USED natural guides OR PUT IT THERE!
And YES.......we have wardens here that WILL debate this. Which, by the way, is when I pulled and left (early) for KANSAS! Their "Parks Dept."(DNR) works WITH trappers, NOT against them. Kansas has an OUTSTANDING wildlife management program. Trappers,hunters,fishermen,hikers,etc. RESPECT each other. Wardens do their job professionally and treat trappers EXTREMELY well.
Ok......I'll get off my soap box.

[trappnman]

I'm not even attmepting to argue ANY of the points you are bringing up

just that , for me, given a choice of a conibear or a colony, the conibear would (and did this year) stay in the shed.

[packerfan]

Sorry Steve, that was directed at 49er. Putting colonies side by side is silly. We should be able to guide/fence with whatever is laying around. just as we are allowed to do with all OTHER traps.

[trappnman]

agree- can't guide, but can put 5 in a row-

you would THINK, that this should be simple fix in talks with the dnr

some stuff reasonable men can disagree on- but in these types of cases- wheres the logic

[thorsmightyhammer]

Putting colonies side by side is silly?

Well, talk to me when you've caught hundred upon thousands and see if its "silly".

Maybe when Kasper gets home ask him if its "silly"

Sure "silly" is being forced to by law but in SD we could only use a 12 inch colony and I'd rather put 2 side by side than to spend "silly" time fencing when all you need to do is put a couple traps side by side or stack them.

I dont find it "silly" to come to a location and have 3 traps and 4 to 6 rats in them.

Maybe you do,

[trappnman]

steven- with a larger trap in Mn, would you rather

#1- have "wings" on them to open up, thus blocking the same distance

or #2- a couple or three traps side by side?

or would it be a wash insofar as success?

never thought of stacking- on cut out type locations, my thought was they hugged the bottom?

[packerfan]

49ER........HERE in S. Wis. it seems silly. Where you are,clearly, it makes sense. Now, if I got a section of Horicon marsh, SILLY it is NOT!

[blackhammer]

Side by side is ok at some spots.Between a little blocking and not finding it necessary very often it's not a major issue for me.Be it in South Dakota or Minnesota.You start stacking four to a spot and set fifty locations or whatever lyou are going to be a little cramped for hauling space . In SD the smaller culverts with just enough water to cover the trap on a trickle that you wouldn't think rats would even use.In the spring these spots would have multiple catches every day. some hidden that most bypassed,even field driveway culverts that had spring runoff in them were excellent.The obvious tubes would be plugged with traps on both sides but these less noticeable spots wouldn't.If I could still trap there I wouldn't share this but I'm not optimistic about nr rat trapping for awhile.

[thorsmightyhammer]

Steve, I'd put them side by side before I put wings on.

[wbg]

Are those of you who are stacking traps catching much in the upper traps? I have stacked traps in culverts in the past and always caught the majority of rats in the bottom traps. Side by side works fine if you can't find a run or a narrow spot.