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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2007 14:52:52 GMT -6
what he said. the difference in brushing is like combing your hair backwards, it always is laying forwards the next morning. I can make that hair lay backwards forever. another difference might be , at least indiana coyotes, they are much larger and thicker hided. zags is a horse, and I bet he would wrassle and cuss turning and brushing new york german sheps- why he went to the borax deal. sw cats and greys are custom made for borax. I can`t imagine doing any western fur any other way , what with the low humidity.
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Post by bankrunner on Feb 12, 2007 15:25:20 GMT -6
Please keep this thread going, never put up a coyote but this is very educational and will give me choices next year. Hopefully this will make the archives if it doesn't go astray.Thanks.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 12, 2007 16:01:52 GMT -6
my coyotes are washed before putting up- the fur is then damp- after a day, its still slightly damp and I can make it sing, dance and whistle dixie.
why do you assume if it isn't done your way, its not done right?
Yes, Zags gets big coyotes and he also told me his AVERAGE coyote was 34-35. So except for a few- not a whole lot of difference.
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 12, 2007 16:10:40 GMT -6
What cameron 2 and Bob said. Stef 5 of my 6 cats were never turned and you saw the average and prices nafa gave me. some of my coyotes i experimented with also. had some 78$ coyotes at nafa and I know at least one of them was done like that. I like to put the fur in my borax tub after fleshing and rub it into the whole hide leather side for a minute or two then when I put it up fur out its right on the stretcher and I don't have to think about it again. With help from Hollywood and Bill1306 5 of the 6 cats I shipped were *SEL and the other *I and I had never skinned, fleshed or put a cat on a stretcher in my life and had a $420 top. Those two guys know what they are doing!
Jeff
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Post by ohiyotee on Feb 12, 2007 16:18:09 GMT -6
I guarantee that these Ohio pigs are just as tough on the hide, and i turn them as described. You guys must have missed what ii said about the time because as i said after i turn i only put it back on the board for a minute to get the shape right, then pull it off. and hang it , that's it, I'm done in under a day. I might as well say it now because i came see it coming that i have crap fur, but i got 50 bucks for one of my Ohio yotes this past sale so it must have looked okay. I shipped 134 coon and 48 where select, 13.50 average on all , got 56, and 52 dollars for the grays,26 ave, reds, 7.40 average for the rats now that's Ohio fur that isn't have of what some of you have . Now having said all that i can see the possible benefits of the borax and i might try it next year lol...... i always like to try new things.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2007 16:38:38 GMT -6
without a doubt, all crap fur! bwahahahaha. ;D
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Post by Stef on Feb 12, 2007 16:41:26 GMT -6
cameron... you flesh with borax the way we flesh with hardwood sawdust ... Do you put some borax AGAIN on the leather once you're done fleshing? Thanks Jeff i understand yours. NOWI did not check in my catalogs for borax, I know where to get it but let's talk about the co $t ??... I Have no ideas If its expensive... Does it justify fleshing with borax?
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 12, 2007 16:54:04 GMT -6
its called 20 mule team borax. sold at wallmart in the laundry detergent Isle. Its dirt cheap.
Jeff
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 12, 2007 16:56:50 GMT -6
Use it in tubs so you dont waste it. one tub to do the leather on your coyotes. one tub of CLEAN borax to rub in the fur after drying to get blood etc out. when clean tub gets dirty add that to your leather tub. and if you got cats place your dried cat in the CLEAN tub and rub the belly some. really whitens them up couple hundred dollars LOL Jeff
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Post by Stef on Feb 12, 2007 17:01:14 GMT -6
Thanks Jeff, have to check that out
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Post by Stef on Feb 12, 2007 17:02:05 GMT -6
Still have couple yotes to flesh, will try it for sure in March
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Post by musher on Feb 12, 2007 17:19:33 GMT -6
I'm trying to get a summary here:
skin as usual dip flesh side of pelt in borax flesh redip flesh side in borax paying attention to armpits and ears turn fur side out put on stretcher comb fur the wrong way hang nose down remove from stretcher redust with clean borax the fur side
There must be a step where you shake the borax off so it doesn't show?
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 12, 2007 17:25:18 GMT -6
I dont use it to flesh. I'll shake it some above the tub before turning fur side out to put on stretcher just to shake off the excess. After I rub it into my finished cats bellies I'll shake it out over the tub also. I wouldn't do it in an unheated fur shed unless the humidity is next to nothing. Try it on a couple and see what you think. the only thing i rub into the fur of is cats bellies. but it does get rid of DRIED blood on cats or coyotes when rubbed into the fur.
Jeff
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Post by coyotewhisperer on Feb 12, 2007 17:30:08 GMT -6
One other thing it does magnify any spots you missed fleshing when rubbing it into the leather after fleshing. and does make it easier to get the heads cleaner if your picky about such things.
Jeff
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Post by mikespring on Feb 12, 2007 17:41:54 GMT -6
I went to the borax method this year and I will never go back. I will say this though...my garage does not have heat and the FOX did start to slip due to not having any heat on em, they were taking to long to dry so I brought them in the basement and they did fine...coyotes did fine in the garage with no heat. Takes me 3to 5 min to turn a pelt and get it back the way I wanted it..boy you guys must be good. ;D
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Post by Zagman on Feb 12, 2007 18:16:07 GMT -6
For me, the issue of turning did not have as much to do with actual time taken to turn vs time taken going the Borax route.....
It had to do with the TIMING of the turning, i.e, hitting that small window of time when the turning is right on the money, and easy. I would never seem to hit it right....and would then fight the coyotes, cussing them all the way as Bob said.
Also, a factor that made me decide to switch that needs to be mentioned.....wire vs. wood.
With wood, you need to pin down the hide and the tail and such, whereas with wire you dont. When I went 100% WOOD, it made more sense to go with the borax method. Taking all those pins in and out all the time with multiple coyotes would not be something I want to do.....
Often, when we compare and contract all the different things we do to save time, when someone else analyzes it, it seems minor, not important, trivial. Yes, when you look at that one and only thing, then YES, it is trivial.
But when you add up all of the little things one does in a day, it starts to make sense.....perhaps ALL these things added up allows me to get 1/2 hour extra sleep, or put in two more sets, or talk on the phone with my Dad, or whatever.......and those things are not trivial.
My hats off to you guys that have wives that help you out.....as I always say, my wife gags making meatballs. No matter how you slice it, whether on the line or in the fur shed, having a helper sure "helps".....and perhaps it allows one the luxury of not over analyzing all these little things we fight about.
When I used to go down to the Leggett's, they had a system when they got back to the fur shed.....Ronnie would turn yesterday's fox (20-40 of them) and Pete would start skinning....
I bet if Pete was still trapping, he'd tell you turning hides was not a big deal, as Ronnie was doing it!
It's all about perspectve!
Zagman
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2007 18:17:53 GMT -6
wait till I give the bleach and black magic marker lessons. they will be scratching their heads at nafa when white bellied black spotted cats show up with coyote fur growing out of their backs. freaks of nature I reckon. those boys back in the `20`s dying striped skunks into stars got nothing on this old boy. nothing wrong with washing and waxing a car before you sell it and a few touch ups over scratches here and there. little bondo and a mud glob at the right place. some ho house perfume in the drivers seat and she`s good to go.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Feb 12, 2007 18:43:10 GMT -6
That borax is great stuff, we used to turn the hotels white in Winnemucca before the fur sale.
The Shady Court hotel never said anything and always wanted us back.
I like to tap the nose of the stretcher board on concrete to settle the fur and let it dry upside down.
Do the Borax tub to get the dirt, grease and blood out and to brighten the fur just before the sale.
In the old days I had a small vacuum cleaner that I would vacuum the excess Borax out against the grain of the fur.
Now days I just use compressed air out in the shop to blow the stuff out.
The old vacuum used to put so much static electricity in those old cats they'd spark in a dark room.
Joel
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2007 18:47:06 GMT -6
I`ve sparked in a dark room a time or two myself, and twice in a buggy. sorry, I couldn`t resist. a little levity.
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Post by Ross on Feb 12, 2007 19:17:59 GMT -6
Amish buggy?
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