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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 11, 2007 14:01:43 GMT -6
I really see no big difference in coyotes on wood vs wire- and for sure don't get any more either way.
Thinking about this- if you like wire for yotes, and I do, you really aren't saving any time by using borax and not turning.
How long does it take to turn a coyote? A minute? How long to borax? The same or more I'd guess- plus you lose in drying time.
Now forced air would save a lot of time.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 11, 2007 14:20:25 GMT -6
steve, you sold 70-80 whatever mn coyotes this year for what, $17 dollar avg did you say? serious now, on wood and not selling to the same end buyer every year no matter what, I could have done probably 100% better on that same fur- $35-40.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 11, 2007 14:44:49 GMT -6
actually Bob- just about a $23 average on my MN yotes.
$35 for a few unskun badger
$30 for my Oct 1 WY yotes...
I also sold some to locals at $35.
Could I get more on my yotes shipping? Probably. But at $20 red nose count, mink, coon, etc- He treats me fair, I treat him fair, and I much prefer selling at intervals.
But I sold mine in Dec- long before we kne if yotes were up or down. Same time I was sellin $24 nose count mink and $7 nose count rats and $14 average green coon.
I probably will send some to FHA next year- at least my MT ones.
I tried wood on fox 2 years ago, and this year went 100% to wood- I can see the difference. I have half doz wood yote boards, and we use them- but I defy you to pick out the wood ones if you don't look at the pin holes.
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Post by NEPISIGUIT on Feb 11, 2007 21:55:27 GMT -6
Fur out, paper sleve on boards. following cleaning and drumming. Solid board. Removed after a couple of days as shape is formed. animal placed back on boards and left to dry for a couple more days then removed and hung on hooks from the ceiling in garage. Second time on boards leave the nose a bit above the board in case it sticks. If it does stick i will at times take the stretcher with the animal on it and give it a good slam on a flat surface such as the top of a table. This usually works. If not then its time to wrap the board and animal with warm wet towels and start again.
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Post by Steve Gappa on Feb 12, 2007 6:53:59 GMT -6
I still see no time saving here on the borax. Even on wood- what time do you save by not turning?
Drumming- where you could do a bunch at once, sure...but to have to work borax in individually?
seems like 6 of one, half a doz of other...
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Post by 17HMR on Feb 12, 2007 7:47:42 GMT -6
I feel that wood make all furs FEEL thicker and fuller, more so on coon, on yotes my buddy uses all wire and me wood, sold to the same place,trapped in the same area, looked like a matching set, and it ended up that my avg was about $5.50 better than his.
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Post by ohiyotee on Feb 12, 2007 8:12:01 GMT -6
I can turn a yote in less than a minute so i don't see the need for borax on them if time is what you are conserned with.. I have my yotes on the board for about 18 hours and then turn it , then i put it back on the board to reshape it for just a minute and then its off and hanging with no board . I can dry a red fox in 8 hours, same procedure. my coon 2 days. Its not the heat its the humidity that counts although i am using heat to reduce the humidity
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2007 10:07:09 GMT -6
you guys are acting strange. there are lots of other reasons. #1 it takes a hell of a lot longer than a minute to turn and re-tack, counter brush etc. with initial fur out you can hang upside down and have that fur standing instead of flat. = $100 price gain in cats and minimum $10-20 gain in cheap fur. I could teech you how to double or nearly so your income on the same fur, as there are some other things some of us do also. but you all know everything already and any other state of the art technology is just flim flam anyway . gotta go do a couple more cats now.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Feb 12, 2007 10:30:09 GMT -6
Bob said, "I could teech you how to double or nearly so your income on the same fur, as there are some other things some of us do also. but you all know everything "
Teach me baby I'm all ears. When experience talks, I try and listen. And I know nathink.
Anything to keep from having to turn them I'm all into. Will try your method next year, I hate peeing around with turning, especially the grey fox. Really don't care what method is faster, easier and better end product is what's important to many.
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Post by ohiyotee on Feb 12, 2007 10:38:23 GMT -6
I'll take that bet about turning in a minute, i never said anything about combing. I stand the board nose down on the floor and peel it down to the shoulders , at which point it usually comes off the board. Now all i have to do is grab the nose from inside and pull. just that fast. I can't see where the hair on my coyotes and fox could be standing out from the hide any more, they are straight out . as for cats , i have not a clue , as i have never caught one.
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Post by primetime on Feb 12, 2007 10:51:30 GMT -6
Is the white residue that is left on the hide not a problem? I used it some this year to experiment, but noticed the hide would turn a little white. Not wanting to cause any trouble, I just took a damp cloth and wiped it off any areas the buyer could see. But those of you that do it all the time - have you had any complaints?
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Post by Wright Brothers on Feb 12, 2007 11:06:47 GMT -6
Yotee that sounds good on paper but the truth is my hand will not fit through the neck area on greys. On reds and coyote no problems there.
I'm going with the fur out next time. Thought about it sooner but "tradition" got in the way. Bob convinced me. Have to also mention that my drying room may be dryer than most with wood stove and fans. On some of those zero degree dry days, with stove cranked, I turned some within hours. When I used to work my fur in an unheated building, I would not think of this fur out method.
Had mentioned concern to my local buyer of damp weather and he recomended rolling up a newspaper like a tube and placing it inside. I liked that idea.
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Post by lynxcat on Feb 12, 2007 11:22:24 GMT -6
I'm with the grizzled OLD fart on this one ....WAIT... that could be Steve OR Bob ...
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Post by Stef on Feb 12, 2007 12:11:47 GMT -6
Just a quick question there....
Pelts dried using the borax method... How are they accepted by the auction houses?
Any complaints?
Stef
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2007 12:38:24 GMT -6
I`ve never had any complaints stef. another point to consider, if you all have ever ripped a fox or coyote turning, or sob sob a cat, you can forget that risk ever again with the fur out method . and those minute turns, seems you turn always a hair too soon or it gets too dry and then the damp towels , tug of war pulling efforts, cussing and fuming etc and there goes the one minutes out the winder. you think psb is turning 1200 fox this year and still time to trap 25 more tomorrow? or that sennaker character on his 1,000 coyotes a season. well, duh........
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Post by Stef on Feb 12, 2007 12:56:18 GMT -6
I know how they do it... Forced air system but the borax method is different. If I could catch a 1000 fox a season even ½ of that (think I will never see that in all my life)... A forced air system would be nice but for now.... The borax method seems great.
Thanks
Stef
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Post by trappnman on Feb 12, 2007 13:19:55 GMT -6
yes- thats forced air.
Lets leave out the chest thumping and pissing distance. I don't want to zap this thread, but dislike the some of tone and want it to stop.
Many are experienced fur handlers. I myself have put up fur for over 45 years. Last winter, when the biggest fur house in this area, Webkies Fur, was asked by a member of this forum, JimB, what good MN coyotes should look like put up, and he was shown a pair of mine. so- I know a little about fur.
And I enjoy the hell out of handling it. So enough on that vein. ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now- I'm not saying the borax method doesn't provide superior results- it might well do so.
But the thing that was being promoted, was what a time savings it was.
And I thought- you bet- save me a lot of time in turning.
But thinking about it- and I just can't see it.
Take a hide, fold it into a box of borax, rub the borax in, pay extra attention to the armpits, tail, etc. Remove excess borax-
How long will that take I wondered- then thought of how long it takes to pull a yote- and the answer is less than it takes to type this. I'm betting honestly that if I was on the clock 99 of 100 coyotes could be turned in 30 seconds or less.
That taking them off, and putting skin in, fur out. And I have never torn a coyote. Start one 5-6 inches, reach in and grab the nose, stand on the flanks (that 5-6 inches) and pull. I never have a coyote too hard to turn. A day or 2 on one side, and turn.
Every other step is the same. Sure you have to pin it twice on wood- on wire stretching would take what 5 secs?- but when I turn on wood, I'm only re-pinning with 6 pins- so it really is no time at all to re-pin one- 10 secs? It's already shaped so just pull it on and pin.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2007 14:06:48 GMT -6
30 second turn and tack , or hook. hair stands up just as good, never tore one... you`re a better man than me. no thumping, you must be.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 12, 2007 14:20:15 GMT -6
Bob- why should it be so tough? Serious?
I do have strong arms- all the gohper digging I do is my bet- but you being into weights, must also.
Heck Bob- Lori can turn any coyote in well under a minute.
as far as tearing- the only way a man could tear a coyote is if its left too long on the stretcher so it is hard as a rock. And even then I've never done it.
Tear a fox- yes, have done that- but never when turning- when taking off of wood fur out.
Now hair standing up- you tell me that after borax and putting fur side out- you don't brush?
If so- why should my brushing take any longer.
Brushing, washing, drying, skinning- are all going to be the same.
We are just comparing one step in time- borax vs putting fur out for a day.
Seems like a wash TIME wise.
Now- does it make the leather dry better, giving the fur a better look?
Don't know.
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Post by cameron2 on Feb 12, 2007 14:38:45 GMT -6
I haven't trapped a bazillion coyotes, and my wife for DARN sure isn't going to put up my fur, but I have to admit life has been SOOOOOOOOOO much easier since I watched Steve Wood's BobCATCHing DVD, and he demonstrated the borax method on cats. What a pleasure to just put the animal on the stretcher one time, get it arranged the very best you can -- and forget about it. More time to trap, sleep, etc. I just put the critter on the fleshing beam, rub a couple handfuls of Borax into the skin side, and start pushing the fat. Split the tail and apply more Borax. Any bloody spots get an extra handful of Borax, as do the ears. The Borax also does wonders to remove odors on the animal, the floor, your hands, etc.
My furs dry faster, in better shape, and I don't have to worry about turning them, ripping them, inverting them, rehydrating them, sewing them (right, GUTPYLZ?) or anything else. Plus the cats and fox look so much better because I can get the hips, belly, and everything else properly oriented and then let it dry that way.
Do Lori a favor and make things easier on her!!! ;D
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