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Post by C1972 on Oct 11, 2012 11:24:29 GMT -6
Thanks 1972, just asking . I have a pretty libertarian view of religion. You want to be an atheist? Why would I care? Same if you want to go to church three times a day. Just allow me to do my thing, should be plenty of room to stay out of each others way, heaven and hell are big places. I don't have a problem with theists, it's the organized religion behind them. It's painfully obvious it's holding us back as human beings. Just ask the families of dead soldiers fighting over religion. Whatever floats your boat. Although I am a firm believer that the separation of church and state is a HUGE lie. We even have 'In God We Trust' on our money! Even 4 out of the 9 Republicans running for the Presidential nomination earlier this year said that god spoke to them and told them to run for office. Give me a break! Blatant pandering to the religious right. If they had souls, they would surely sell them to be President or any other elected office. You just don't hear that coming from Democrats. I don't believe in myths or fantasies, I believe in myself and that's working just fine for me. P.S. Can someone tell me how to pick out just a snippet of a post to quote, possibly several different snippets?
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Post by minkman99 on Oct 11, 2012 13:06:53 GMT -6
Without religion there is no such thing as morality. People are not better of without religion. When someone has hope they tend to overcome most problems.
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Oct 11, 2012 16:42:31 GMT -6
Totally disagree, I, and many others I know have different beliefs than our parents had.
I have a couple of strong core beliefs, one is that the reality that I live in didn't occur by accident. The other is that none of us "know" with 100% certainty what comes next.
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Post by C1972 on Oct 11, 2012 21:15:38 GMT -6
Totally disagree, I, and many others I know have different beliefs than our parents had. I have a couple of strong core beliefs, one is that the reality that I live in didn't occur by accident. The other is that none of us "know" with 100% certainty what comes next. Everyone needs something to believe in. That's why the bible was written (twice, I might add) to give simpletons something to revere and worship. Good for you, it's the ones who spew their religious horsepuckey constantly that piss me off. Those beliefs of which you speak are theist based, correct? If so, explain to me how anyone comes to believe in gods, they're taught by others, you just don't find it. Religion makes people sheeple. If you're a believer,then you're saying that the Earth is only 6-9,000 years old....BS!, the fossil record is incorrect....BS!, evolution is just a theory... BS!, and your god(s) created the Earth in 6 days while also walking on water and parted the Red Sea....TOTAL BS!!!!? What about the water into wine story? ? Then after being crucified, he arose after a couple days to do whatever? \ The reality is that the bible was written by man to quell the masses and to control the sheeple. It's 2012 and humanity as a whole still isn't intelligent enough to overcome religions grasp. It reminds me of people voting Republican when it's clearly against their best interest, they're just ______ (fill in the blank) But let's come back down to Earth bible thumpers. Believe what you want but when your religion impacts the way I live my everyday life, then we have a SERIOUS problem and I'll fight it with every breath in my body. Believe what you want. Like I said, when ANY religion gets in the way of my reality, don't expect me to step aside out of the goodness of my heart. I'm sick and tired of feigning respect for organizations that are no more than glorified cults in millions of others eyes. We're waking up as a nation and I'm proud to not be a sheeple.
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Post by PamIsMe on Oct 11, 2012 22:52:33 GMT -6
"Without religion there is no such thing as morality."
One can be moral and have hope without religion. One can be immoral and feel hopeless with religion. There are plenty of examples either way.
"The reality is that the bible was written by man to quell the masses and to control the sheeple" AND the women lol
I was really proud of Joe Biden tonight when he said that as a Catholic he has certain beliefs, pro-life being one of them, which he lives by, but that he does NOT believe in imposing his religous beliefs on others. I wish all religions and their followers felt the same way. The world would be a better place.
Cheers, Pam
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Post by James on Oct 11, 2012 23:02:27 GMT -6
Isn't someone who acts morally without either fear or expectation of reward in an afterlife actually MORE moral?
Jim
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Oct 11, 2012 23:33:33 GMT -6
72 you make assumptions about what I said. It's pretty simple, I can't believe that my circulatory system just happened, or that the other complex systems and processes on this planet were an accident. I think that defies common sense.
I didn't say that I have any idea who/how that came to be, just saying I don't think it was an accident.
My second belief is that I don't know what comes next and I highly doubt that many, if any, other people do either.
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Post by C1972 on Oct 12, 2012 6:17:33 GMT -6
72 you make assumptions about what I said. It's pretty simple, I can't believe that my circulatory system just happened, or that the other complex systems and processes on this planet were an accident. I think that defies common sense. I didn't say that I have any idea who/how that came to be, just saying I don't think it was an accident. My second belief is that I don't know what comes next and I highly doubt that many, if any, other people do either. I don't either but I'm gonna enjoy the ride
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Post by trappnman on Oct 12, 2012 6:32:14 GMT -6
not a very Christian reply is it farmboy?
but I bet you go to church on Sunday!
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Post by thebeav2 on Oct 12, 2012 8:06:45 GMT -6
If you can't see It or touch It or taste It or smell It then It doesn't exist. Seems simple to me.
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Post by thebeav2 on Oct 12, 2012 8:11:53 GMT -6
"Without religion there is no such thing as morality."
One can be moral and have hope without religion. One can be immoral and feel hopeless with religion. There are plenty of examples either way.
"The reality is that the bible was written by man to quell the masses and to control the sheeple" AND the women lol
I was really proud of Joe Biden tonight when he said that as a Catholic he has certain beliefs, pro-life being one of them, which he lives by, but that he does NOT believe in imposing his religous beliefs on others. I wish all religions and their followers felt the same way. The world would be a better place.
Cheers,Pam
BS BS
Bidens statement Is just pure Political BS
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Post by Scott W. on Oct 12, 2012 11:08:50 GMT -6
As a recovering Catholic, I have contended for a long time that organized religion is a detriment to a person's (my) spiritual developement.
Most religions are similar in that they: Want your money Promise you something neat after you die Preach that their way is better than all the other's And are administered from the top down to a flock that does not have the ability to find a path to improved understanding.
Jesus, protect me from your followers.
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Post by James on Oct 12, 2012 17:47:49 GMT -6
If you can't see It or touch It or taste It or smell It then It doesn't exist. Seems simple to me. Or else if it does exist, it doesn't interact with our world; so why worry about it? Jim
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Post by James on Oct 12, 2012 17:58:29 GMT -6
Four reasons advanced by atheists for God's non-existence:
1.God's silence.
2. God's inaction.
3. The lack of evidence.
4. The way the universe looks exactly like a godless universe would, and not at all like a Christian universe would, even down to its very structure.
The first three seem pretty self-explanatory. The last point includes Joel's circulatory system, which -- assuming he's human like the rest of us -- has many inbuilt defects, dead-ends, and inefficiencies. Just like the rest of our systems, right down to the junk DNA in our genetic code.
An omnipotent God would presumably design a flawless creation. Why would he settle for less? The flaws and inefficiencies built into the human body are exactly the sort of systems we could expect from random mutations guided by natural selection, not divine creation.
Jim
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Post by mostinterestingmanintheworld on Oct 12, 2012 18:36:22 GMT -6
There's a lot that none of us know for sure, we can believe, but we can't know.
I'm optimistic that the mysteries of life will be revealed at some point. I want all you Democrats on here to see the error of your ways.
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Post by minkman99 on Oct 12, 2012 23:09:54 GMT -6
A person can act moral or immoral as to there own standards, but without a religion setting rules of what morality is, than morals cease to truly exist.
What keeps someone from doing something that is not illegal but immoral if that person refuses to believe in a higher power?
I never understood why people want to be athiests, seems simple to me, believe and try to live life up to God's standards or refuse to believe and possibly miss out on something absolutly incredible. Its a lot easier to be an athiest, never have to fear doing something presumed to be bad, especially if you don't get caught.
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Post by minkman99 on Oct 12, 2012 23:19:18 GMT -6
Four reasons advanced by atheists for God's non-existence: 1.God's silence. 2. God's inaction. 3. The lack of evidence. 4. The way the universe looks exactly like a godless universe would, and not at all like a Christian universe would, even down to its very structure. The first three seem pretty self-explanatory. The last point includes Joel's circulatory system, which -- assuming he's human like the rest of us -- has many inbuilt defects, dead-ends, and inefficiencies. Just like the rest of our systems, right down to the junk DNA in our genetic code. An omnipotent God would presumably design a flawless creation. Why would he settle for less? The flaws and inefficiencies built into the human body are exactly the sort of systems we could expect from random mutations guided by natural selection, not divine creation. Jim 1. Who says God is silent? 2. Lots of people believe in miracles. 3. Lack of evidence goes both ways. 4. A flawless being in a flawed world. God gave us free will to do at our choosing. Our bodies were once flawless but our choices have led to different flaws created in our own genetic line. I will admit to having these questions myself, but isn't this why religion is referred to as faith?
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Post by James on Oct 13, 2012 0:55:00 GMT -6
"I never understood why people want to be athiests"
Yeah, for sure. I wonder if most atheists want to be atheists, or just feel compelled by intellectual honesty. I'd sure like to be sure of a belief in God.
I'm kind of on the fence. I'm pretty sure that no holy book has got God right, if he/she/it does exist. But I'd like to believe there must be some kind of purpose for the universe and mankind.
"Its a lot easier to be an athiest, never have to fear doing something presumed to be bad, especially if you don't get caught."
You're falsely assuming that atheist = sociopath. Some people are capable of leading ethical lives even if they don't have supernatural beliefs.
Jim
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Post by trappnman on Oct 13, 2012 6:29:15 GMT -6
over history, religion has had terrible moral values.
anyone that needs relgion to set the standards for their life, is pretty weak willed.
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Post by PamIsMe on Oct 13, 2012 11:44:54 GMT -6
"Without religion there is no such thing as morality."
Religion is only one source of moral values. This makes sense to me :
You are here: Philosophy >> Learn More About Morality! >> Moral Values
What are moral values?
Moral values are the standards of good and evil, which govern an individual’s behavior and choices. Individual’s morals may derive from society and government, religion, or self. When moral values derive from society and government they, of necessity, may change as the laws and morals of the society change. An example of the impact of changing laws on moral values may be seen in the case of marriage vs. “living together.”
In past generations, it was rare to see couples who lived together without the benefit of a legal matrimonial ceremony. In recent years, couples that set up household without marriage are nearly as plentiful as traditional married couples. But, not only are such couples more plentiful, they are also more accepted by other individuals in our society. In earlier society, the laws and morals simply came from the Roman system of law, which was largely based on the Ten Commandments. As society moved into the modern era, that earlier system of laws became more and more eroded.
Moral values also derive from within one’s own self. This is clearly demonstrated in the behavior of older infants and young toddlers. If a child has been forbidden to touch or take a certain object early on, they know enough to slowly look over their shoulder to see if they are being observed before touching said object. There is no need for this behavior to be taught; it is instinctive. Once, however, any form of discipline is applied to modify the child’s behavior, the child now gains the capacity within himself to distinguish his right behavior from his wrong behavior. Now, the child can make correct choices based on his own knowledge. The choices that are made by an individual from childhood to adulthood are between forbidden and acceptable, kind or cruel, generous or selfish. A person may, under any given set of circumstances, decide to do what is forbidden. If this individual possesses moral values, going against them usually produces guilt.
Religion is another source of moral values. Most religions have built-in lists of do’s and don’ts, a set of codes by which its adherents should live. Individuals who are followers of a particular religion will generally make a show of following that religion’s behavioral code. It is interesting to note that these codes may widely vary; a person whose religion provides for polygamy will experience no guilt at having more than one spouse while adherents to other religions feel they must remain monogamous.
Christianity goes beyond all other religions in that it is more than just a system of do’s and don’ts; it is a relationship with the living God through His Son, Jesus Christ. A Christian’s set of moral values go beyond society’s mores and selfish instincts. Christians ideally behave correctly because they love God and want to please Him. This is at once a high calling and a low position. It is a high calling because God has required that all who love Him should keep His commandments; therefore it is an act of obedience. John 14:15 says, "If you love me, you will obey what I command.” It is a low position because we must totally deny our own will to do what pleases the Lord. Christ Jesus as He lived His life on earth is our supreme example; if we pattern our behavior after Him then our lives are most valuable. John 15:10 says, “If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.”
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