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Post by garman on Jul 9, 2010 13:05:27 GMT -6
I always put a new set in as well, but I am sure some of this may be voo-doo coyote BS, but hey it works for me and I continue to do better every year and yotes come easier every year.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 9, 2010 13:18:25 GMT -6
they can come easier yet, just go to short chains and forget the need for over power or shock springs either one. why make an easy job hard?
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 9, 2010 13:24:26 GMT -6
tc, if you didn`t have all that trap and chain to bury you wouldn`t have to worry about that rock. or merely dig your bed first to ck for room. you know, look around the bar a bit and ck out the babes BEFORE you order the keg beer. garemjen, why do you need your knee and ot just use the ground. even soft grounmd just set the trap on your trowel. too strong a trap? wouldn`t need that strong if you didn`t have such a long chain! ans tc. baloney, a rubber trap has more hold ( anti slide motion if you want)than any steel trap ever made.
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Post by garman on Jul 9, 2010 13:56:15 GMT -6
Heck bob been using double long # 0's for years you mean they make something smaller or just go to single spring! LOL Just jokin, hate loose jaw traps, if they made a lower powered trap like the sterling I would use it. The time I save using the sterlings, re: bedding, saves me time elsewhere.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 9, 2010 14:19:11 GMT -6
ah, bedding, another wives tail blown all out of proportion. does it help to bed solid? probablty does some. enough to offset the lost time and human stink everywhere? nope, it then becomes a negative to the number on the barn wall when the picture gets taken. and you are saying problems with re-makes ,and maybe first night catches? wish I could unlearn everyone. It would catch you more with less sweat equity invested. mo money mo money. I can lead you to the water, bit if you won`t drink then you won`t drink. the guy saying the water was poison just said that because someone told him that. you do know that don`t you?
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Post by garman on Jul 9, 2010 14:28:52 GMT -6
I no longer have problems with first night catches, remakes I may not either, I just trap I do what I do it takes me very little time, less than 5 minutes a set top to bottom, do not worry about scent that much, but I do like the traps I use, do like bedding those traps and if I had more time to trap my catch numbers would be much higher, as well as if I could afford to traps more LOL I do own your tape and also took lessons from a couple of the best around (robertw, odon) and they state the same things you do, which I follow for the most part. I believe you may think I am more voodoo than I am, I am not just like the traps and chains I use. Sometime I would like to get out your way for the convention/get together your guys's chapter does. Maybe you can show me more what you mean. Talk Later Have a good weekend guys
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 9, 2010 14:34:40 GMT -6
Bob rubber gives and if it don't then why have a 1/16th of an inch over the steel jaw to begin with? Just widen out the jaw and displace that pressure over more area! Rubber and wet slick gumbo = movement. Really is a simple concept.
Trap not to strong but who wants to mess around with setting on the ground. I'm aging Bob the ground keeps gettin harder, knee pads/kneeling pad are a good thing Bob. Scott H showed me the benefits of knee pads, I always used a gardners pad, until velcro knee pads, keeps sand burrs, cactus and sharp rocks out of your knees and you feel better and can go longer! They even have them filled with gel now really nice!
Bob solid bedding and more time? Really. Anything one does alot makes one faster and I don't want a trap that wobbles for obvious reasons. Solid bedding will add critters to your catch so it pays to be solid than come back to an exsposed trap or a snapped trap.
Human stink? The only thing is time and what effect it has on those coyotes in that area, some bother with it less than others, but I don't buy1- 2 mins extra is going to cost you anything when it comes to human stink, when it mellows enough the trap will get worked, if they have less adversion to human scent same deal.
A solid bedded trap will help your catch numbers, yeh I know us govt trappers are on the clock LOL. You dig your self a bowl type bed and pack dirt in and around and then I pack inside the jaws well packed, takes weather better and far less prone to wobble, maybe a minute more but will pay off with that barn wall photo in the end. I just go by what I read don't cha know ...............................................
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Post by sdfoxtrapper on Jul 9, 2010 15:08:09 GMT -6
Andy, not sure what to think at this point, as I am just getting started crunching some numbers and am still trying to come up real world load conditions. I did do a quick analysis to compare the frame deflection on a stock 1.75 Victor with a 0.090" thickness to that of the same with a 0.25" baseplate added. The FEA model is not perfect but should be reasonably close. The 0.090" frame deflects 0.091" while the 0.34" (0.090 frame + 0.25 baseplate) deflects only 0.0017" so there is more deflection in the frame in the stock condition. I will have to some explicit dynamic impact modeling to determine how much less the shock load is though. Either way I would not expect to get more than around a 50% impact load so for a 50 lb coyote so that would only make a shock load of around 75 lbs, which is not that much. What are your thoughts? Here are some pictures.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 9, 2010 15:59:55 GMT -6
trap wobble, another old wives tail. proof? farmer plows or discs field, first night fox and coyote all over it slipping and sliding and wobbling to beat heck. knee pads, just another thing to stink and take time. amazing just amazing the folks that still are in the stone age and just refuse to believe any different than what e.j. dailey wrote 50 years ago. can`t make it sound too easy, otherwise no one would be super human anymore, eh? as far as aage and weight, physical fitness is as much a part of the big picture as anything too. if you let the gut get big, well o well o jell o
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 9, 2010 16:15:21 GMT -6
Bob are milking parlor boots new technology?
Trap wobble not a wives tale at all, soemtimes you don't control where they step and at times they can move the trap and they see it and they use hteir eyes alot movement can mean food hence the diggin at the trap. Plus a well packed trap can take rain far better than one that is not and you have the dirt settle in around exsposing parts, no different than new dirt along a foundation all loose dirst settles unless you pack it.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 9, 2010 16:51:22 GMT -6
oh baloney. you are just repeating what you read in a book by some guy that read it in a book. chop out bed with pick ax or hammer, or scoop out by hand if sand. pound in and then push loose dirt back into bed. now the 2 second part, wiggle trap in. 2 seconds over. it`s good enough and better than tight pack . as tight pack takes more time, leaves more stink, less traps set at end of the day. again, the clock is ticking always ticking. you have to weigh each move with the results it gets. tight pack isn`t worth the effort and even a negative. barring unforseen weather, my coyotes are caught before "foundation settling". ands if the location is so crappy a week goes by, I didn`t set there anyway. if rain expected just sift more dirt over. same for high winds, more dirt and a small wind break wall on the wind side. easy. I know everyone in the east has cked a set where the trap is showiing thru, a big bowl and standing water right over the trap. too messy to remake so give it pee squirt with plans to re-do the line when the weather drys. next day, biggest catch day of the season, in the exposed mudded out traps. we`ve all seen it. it just didn`t "sink in" pun intended.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 9, 2010 17:05:50 GMT -6
What ever Bob it all came from a book zero field observation, as you are the only to have such I guess. We should all switch to softy's and just salmmin traps in the ground after a few years you better take up callin and snaring because there is going to be more educated coyotes runnin about.
You don't have time for packing in a trap but you have time to construct wind breaks?
Exsposed metal can cause various reactions Bob some aren't good, leads to digging. I also thought you never use more than a light sciff of dirt? You think with 3/4" or more of rain just adding 1/2" more dirt is going to make that set look natural?
You make wind breaks and I'll take the same amount of time to pack in my traps the results speak to me!
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 9, 2010 18:33:01 GMT -6
you know what the windbreak is, the crud left in the sifter, it is just dumped in a line. no more time than throw it. same, identical time. or set location choice, no more time either. the clock you know. it is not constructed, it`s dumped. sheeesh.educated coyotes? I don`t have a problem with that. mine are in the trap. plenty have run with me, they don`t see dug traps or prints, they see coyotes standing there, old snaggle tooths , jan feb march coyotes. the leftovers after everyone has shot trapped snared shot all they can all fall and winter. s how does 1/2" dirt make a set look un natural anymore than 1/100th inch? the set looks the same either way. the surface is at the same level, the trap is set deeper, not the dirt higher. DIRT IS DIRT. again, sheesh.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 9, 2010 20:26:03 GMT -6
Bob not the 1/2" at the start but what it looks like after ma nature has her way with a skiff of dirt for covering. The trash as a wind break? How does that work with 35 or 40MPH winds in the open? Yeh Bob all those old snaggle tooths that others couldn't trap,snare or call, yet they work your quick made wam and bam sets with little dirt covering and you use the majority of dirt holes, which is used by how many of those other trappers, and yet with RK's bait they just come a crawling into your sets? so it is the bait or the dirthole set that defys logic? You holding out on some seceret lure their Bob? Why didn't the guy with modified traps, natural looking sets, solid bedded traps catch these snaggle tooths? Maybe becuase he spent too much time bedding the trap? Had too much chain? Use knee pads? Or used Bob J's bait instead of RK's? What do you contribute to your success on those old coyotes, that have been hammered hard all fall and winter? You hear that "thud"? That was me fallin off that damn bannana boat again, darn my luck........... 1080 that video is damn funny
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 10, 2010 4:36:19 GMT -6
to what do I attribute my trapping success? my no b.s. methods. you should try them and quiter the old wives tales your brain is clogged up with. maybe you would not have the problems you apparently are having. could show you head after head of coyotes with no front teeth at all, fangs down to nubs. how old is that 10 years, 15 years? I dunno, but there are plenty. I like the old ones as I have a specialty market for the skulls as apparently not many other folks get any. there are m,any roas in life. often folkks are like you, they never try a different road,. so never go anywhere new. that`s actually a good deal. keeps my place from getting crowded.
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Post by freepop on Jul 10, 2010 7:32:04 GMT -6
No disrespect Bob but don't two trap stakes take a bit longer than a cable type system?
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Post by trappnman on Jul 10, 2010 7:50:44 GMT -6
Even a 12 inch chain, is going to give you a catch circle thats 6-10' around. plenty of eye apeall. What a longer chain does, is spreado ut the wear and tear more. My thought is a shined up catch circle, sometimes puts off coyotes, maybe, if its not something else LOL
take a handful or two of fresh first, and broadcast it roughly over the catch area- takes away that shiney beat down look. this, btw, is also a great tip if any still use footholds for coon on land.
on a short chain, checking once every 24 hours (no TC, not at dawn) there is no problem i've ever seen, nor the tech ever saw, that justified using shock springs.
As I was told- don't fix what ain;t broke- meaning if you have no preoblems that could be corrected by a cure, then you don't need the cure.
do they do any harm? not that I can see- but it seems obvious to me, that their use is dictated by your particular setups, circumstances.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 10, 2010 8:53:08 GMT -6
true, work ethic will always beat all other things in the end when the last day is done. nick, camped in that house just a month ago. same o same o. did get a brand new toilet this year. almost felt bad sitting on it, it was so nice. pop, for me I can wham in a cross as fast or faster than the avg cable guy. plus most cable guys jack around trying to retrieve them. the ones that leave them are either wealthy to where trapping income (net) is meaningless, or they set very few traps. I figure if I left cables I`d be leaving thousands a year, maybe2- 3,000 . at 50 cents whatever, 1500 bucks. multiply that by 30 years using the same stakes over and over, easy pull with the t bar wrecking bar. 30 years times 1500 bucks, 45 grand! plus with stakes I use misc lengths so always have what I need for whatever soil type. and a stake never breaks, cable and cable attachments do. I`ve had swivels and chains and traps fail every blue moon, but never a stake break.
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Post by bobwendt on Jul 10, 2010 8:57:01 GMT -6
forgot to thank sdfoxtrapper for the stress info on trap bases. I know they do some as seen bowed ones and they must give to some degree before the bowing point. an area out of my experise ,but my field experience collaborates his findings on it.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Jul 10, 2010 9:00:37 GMT -6
Bob add a base plate to those traps and you won't have bowing even on 24 hr checks LOL.
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