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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2008 11:45:28 GMT -6
I understand- but again I ask- what would appeal to alphas, that would take them FIRST.
a real sly subtle flat set? unlured, unbaited trial set? Hole with a good bait/lure?
wouldn't that take the first coyote through?
My point- is that any good coyote trapper, making a set- will take whatever comes along first.
there is no set, nor way- to target alphas FIRST that I know of.
but yet, some say they do..... and make a point of it
I'll say- that unless I'm boxing in my sets with 4 sticks aka western cat trapping, any set I make, will TARGET alphas (and every other coyote out there)
and I'll boldly state- that to say one "targets" alphas- is hype and nothing more.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2008 12:36:58 GMT -6
only time I could ever catch ONLY old ones first is when there was no old ones, i.e. tiny pups at the den and set off 1/2 or more mile since the pups whole world is about 20 feet in late may. I like to catch the 2 or 3 old ones ( helper), then go get the den, so they don`t get scared and mover them anmd then I have to find the den all over again. but the rest of the year I catch about 80/20 young to old. because that is what is out there to catch.
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Post by Dhat on Sept 8, 2008 13:08:17 GMT -6
agree with bob on his last post. Even when the pups are out of den and mom and pop got em layed up somewhere its better if you will get the pair before you even think about moving close to the layup. If you get to close and catch a pup or two they are going to relocate them and you've gotta start all over again. Most of the time you know right where the pups are stashed due to locating with the siren or from the sign evident. Once you pin down the adults the pups will usually hang till theres none left. with that said i usually use urine post type sets and not flashy pup type sets just in case I'm a little close. The pups aren't as interested and the adults if they've been jacked with don't tend to be as leery of subtle type set. Main thing is stay far enough away from pups. I think there are types of sets that are definitely more interesting to pups(flashy sets, feathered up sets, anything with much eye appeal) so generally i stay away from these till the adults are dead. May be different than some how do it but id rather locate em once and catch em all than have to locate them three of four times and catch one or two at a time. Easiest thing is to slip in with dogs and call the adults and get them outa the way on day one but doesn't always work out right. Haven't read the article so not sure if hes referring to the alphas in this sense or if hes referring to the general population such as in winter trapping, if talking about winter trapping most of this Ive written doesn't apply
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2008 13:59:22 GMT -6
agree with both of you- but in that sense, its more setting locations and you only have 2 types- pups and not pups.
my understanding is during season.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2008 15:51:59 GMT -6
to my knowledge , june has never denned or summer trapped, a fall fur trapper. he is attending a camp out at my place the friday before the 7b meet, if any of you want to come talk to him one on one without him having to do demos or run his booth. it`s the annual fall 7b get togather. word has it the tman may even show up. the friday night cook and campout is usually 100 guys or so, but 500-700 at the sat meet the next day. I`ve talked to mark briefly and he seems very personable, but heck, I don`t know anything about him. I`ll be glad to meet him in person.
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Post by Stanley on Sept 8, 2008 16:09:45 GMT -6
My dealings with Mark June have been great. Mark has done a lot and gave his full support to the MTA-MI. At his demo's this last August at the MTA Rendezvous. Mark did a stand up job. He had kids, help him with this demo's. He then gave them a new trap for helping him . Great for the young trapper. On his second demo, word had gotten out, and a bunch of kids were at the front row to be picked to help out. He's a personable and good guy. He told us, "he doesn't miss Michigan" too many people. It's great he's attending the 7B, and the friday night cook/camp out. The 7B is sounding like it's going to be a hoot! STANLEY
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Post by cameron2 on Sept 8, 2008 16:14:07 GMT -6
Over a thousand views and more than 40 responses . . . I'd say his article did what it was designed to do -- get folks talking and debating. Whether you believe what he wrote or not, look at all the good info that came out just from discussing his article. Without that article, I would never have learned the patented Bob Wendt Dominant Male Coyote On The Sawdust Pile Wired To A Cinderblock set.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2008 16:44:03 GMT -6
ya, that`s no. one sawdust pile set now. just so happenmsd I am selling dump truck loads of saw dust delivered. interested partys phone for price. we can mix fox turds or pee in for an extra price. I`ll be waiting by the phone now.
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Post by cameron2 on Sept 8, 2008 16:45:43 GMT -6
ya, that`s no. one sawdust pile set now. just so happenmsd I am selling dump truck loads of saw dust delivered. interested partys phone for price. we can mix fox turds or pee in for an extra price. I`ll be waiting by the phone now. Wow, that's a deal. I didn't think it was for sale within 500 miles of Indiana!!
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Post by jessmatthews on Sept 8, 2008 17:46:07 GMT -6
i started to read it then i seen a white square bucket was involved and I started laughing cuz i thought it was a joke or something......it was a joke of an article i thought, coyotes aren't that smart otherwise they would be everywhere and that arent that smart in nebraska either they are dumb, i trap in the sandhills of nebraska too and you dont need to use that stuff to pound the coyotes its hard work.......i seen his demo for about 10 minutes in wisconsin and he did more jumping around talking about he did this and that and his pretty much b.s. is what gets people attention to thinking........this man makes trapping harder then it needs to be, put a dirthole in the RIGHT LOCATION or flat set and there will be a coyote there tomorrow.....that mans antics make me laugh for how people think it takes that much smarts and all that junk to trap, TRAPPING IS EASY, it takes hard work not secert sets like he talks about.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2008 19:19:24 GMT -6
mark just called and re-affirmed he would be here at my place for the friday night camp/cookout the evening before the 7b meeting. he looks to arrive about 4 in the afternoon. soanyone wanting some one on one time with him and a chance to shake his hand , here it is.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2008 19:33:07 GMT -6
ah Bob........don't tempt me.........
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Post by wheelie on Sept 8, 2008 20:11:49 GMT -6
i started to read it then i seen a white square bucket was involved and I started laughing cuz i thought it was a joke or something......it was a joke of an article i thought, coyotes aren't that smart otherwise they would be everywhere and that arent that smart in nebraska either they are dumb, i trap in the sandhills of nebraska too and you dont need to use that stuff to pound the coyotes its hard work.......i seen his demo for about 10 minutes in wisconsin and he did more jumping around talking about he did this and that and his pretty much b.s. is what gets people attention to thinking........this man makes trapping harder then it needs to be, put a dirthole in the RIGHT LOCATION or flat set and there will be a coyote there tomorrow.....that mans antics make me laugh for how people think it takes that much smarts and all that junk to trap, TRAPPING IS EASY, it takes hard work not secert sets like he talks about. Jesse, that is the best 4th post by anyone I have ever seen!
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Post by jessmatthews on Sept 8, 2008 20:13:00 GMT -6
thanks wheelie, you must know exactly what im talking about then.....this isnt rocket science its trapping cuz if it was rocket science all of us would go broke!!
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Post by wheelie on Sept 8, 2008 20:22:22 GMT -6
mark just called and re-affirmed he would be here at my place for the friday night camp/cookout the evening before the 7b meeting. he looks to arrive about 4 in the afternoon. soanyone wanting some one on one time with him and a chance to shake his hand , here it is. I'll shake his hand, but don't have no ?'s for him... it is like having a question for a muffler bearing salesmen... ... You know, ....yep its a muffler....what the heck is the bearing for...matter of fact, one is not needed in this application..lol
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2008 23:49:19 GMT -6
oh wheelie.
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Post by ChrisM on Sept 9, 2008 6:23:54 GMT -6
My 2 cents..... Mark is a good guy. Very personable, well spoken and likeable. . He also does an excellent job representing trappers.... he is one of the individuals we lead the media towards at the national. He is very supportive of trapping and the various associations. He puts on a very entertaining demo, involves the crowd and has the kids participate. I can certainly see why he is a crowd favorite.
Now, as for the article..., Mark is flat wrong about this alpha male stuff, but we all hashed that out a few months back. Further, the FFG article is a classic case of flawed research which has little application on a trapline being misinterped by trappers.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 9, 2008 7:09:18 GMT -6
agree totally. but then none of us are perfect. we all have our faults and seems all the guys selling something are always selling something. that`s just life. there is a bigger picture and he is helping support by his mere attendance, for that i say thank you to him. but no, I wouldn`t trap partners with him either. but I don`t trap partners with anyone, so, well so. ffg and most of that type thing is for kids,hobbyists anf groupies. there is a nitch for everyone. I doubt many serious trappers or real professionals (w.s. types ) take any stock in any of that hobbyist stuff as they know better, just blow it off as entertainment reading, if they waste time reading it at all. I don`t get ffg. even dropped my trapper subscript. I`d brief thru, read the flawed pumped up fur reports to TRY to at least get a handle on direction of the market, read the ads real quick to see who else is selling pee or dvds, and then even all that got boring. I like one of my mentors philosophys, he is into dead coyotes and assns and such are just not in any of his time slots. it`s took me a long time to grasp that. i was an assn/convention junkie till the nta ruckus and seeing the various state assns have officers stealing money, constantly siding with some of the anti infiltrated ( indiana!)f and g`s wanting more and more restrictions and tighter regs. looking back over a lifetime of assns.memberships, meeting etc, it finally dawned on me trappers assns have cost me more money, lost trapping time and lost opportunitys than all the antis put togather. I feel like such a dumbarse. but when we are young we aren`t jaded yet, and think we can save the world. better to save you and yours and let the world follow it`s own course. got a little off track I guess. anyway, more power to june and all of you reading. do your thing. I`m of the opinion maybe 1% of the public trappers are seriuous knowledgable guys with their heads on straight and about 90 % of w.s. employess as they truly are pros, get paid for being good at what they do.
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Post by jessmatthews on Sept 9, 2008 9:34:14 GMT -6
bob i totally are with your last statement alot of people these days arent very knowledgeable of trapping and make it way more difficult then it needs to be
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Post by freepop on Sept 9, 2008 11:10:22 GMT -6
First of all my disclaimer, I'm a newbie. I have not read the article. I have met Mark, watched 4 of his demos and talked to him on the interweb. I thought all of them provoked thought and did give me some information. Something that Slim thinks is good. The last demo he mentioned about noephobic coyotes. It is a response to something new in their territory. Some coyotes are bold and will investigate, others will shy away from it.
I have no clue if he does ADC summer/spring work. I do know he keeps records and plays the odds with past experience. His goal is to target the alpha first and I believe he wants the male.
I have been researching, reading and lurking around these sites for 3-4 years now and I have gained some knowledge on trappers along the way. I have noticed that some trappers with lots of skill and experience that also have a little age on them (it's unaviodable) are extremely resistant to change and/or different theories on why animals do what they do. Sometimes the theories even support their beliefs but they still scoff at them as poppy cock.
Oh well, as a newbie with many more questions than answers and experience, I'll stumble though another season like a bull in a china shop. At Least I'll be outside.
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