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Post by coydog on Sept 5, 2008 10:09:55 GMT -6
Bob, good post on high spots.
Do you use the "high spot" strategy at all when your not den trapping? For example, if you roll into a new location and assume your on a group of coyotes, set up a good location, and look around for a high spot to set up?
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 5, 2008 10:45:37 GMT -6
no, just do the fall best spot crossing. I like to see turds, tracks, kickbacks etc like we all do. but also like most of us, the "best" spot usualy jumps out at a guy at first glance. couldn`t count the times I drive in, do the 2 second look see and drive right there and get the gear out and start hammering. often even to the grass clump pre=picked 1/2 mile away, yep, there is the turd and track. it`s pretty elementary once a guy gets onto it. I could see where a guy in very very hard pressed sheep country might set up a crossing and then go make a sleeper set on the high spot and it be worth the effort. but in the non sheep areas most coyotes are barely a notch above the poor red fox in smarts. so I trap them dumb like everything else. it`s really a whole different ballgame doing adc summer work in hard pressed sheep country, as many a fat headed fur trapper has learned. but we ARE all able to learn IF we don`t think we know everything already. I`m still learning.
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Post by coydog on Sept 5, 2008 11:09:35 GMT -6
I know I am pulling from the initial post here, but another question that pops into my head on your last reply Bob is about pressure. How would you or any others rate heavy hound and 4 wheel drive army hunters along with bird and deer hunters during fur harvest season to ADC pressure. I understand ADC is done year around, heaviest during denning time I assume, but in a lot of the mid-states that have no ADC programs fur trapping is done side by side to these other activities.
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Post by coydog on Sept 5, 2008 11:12:48 GMT -6
My point being, your tip you threw out on high spots could be something for a guy to consider for these situations also.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 5, 2008 11:18:44 GMT -6
I doubt that makes them any more stand offish to traps, but probably busts them up and thins out the suicidal ones we all like to trap, giving the illusion the few left alive are smart. nah, just less left to get. I mean that poor grown pup that stands on the roadside looking instead of hauling arse ,when the truck pulls over and the gun hangs out the window, he`s not there anymore. like the illusion red fox are smart, nope, just none left to trap once the coyotes take over. only the golf course , inter state fox and towny fox. makes the pa and md fox guys seem like they are all geniouses with the standard 100-200 catch . and the 1,000 guys are just workaholics that have a keen business sense and advanced line management. the trapping part is easy. it`s getting/keeping ground, the work ethic, line rotation and weather that separates the 200 and 1,000 catch guys. but the best guy in the world isn`t going to diddle on fox where they aren`t there. reminds me of the guy that was soooo good he got all the fox, and when none there he still got 1/2 of them. lot of truth to that.
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Post by coydog on Sept 5, 2008 11:48:07 GMT -6
I am all for keeping things as simple as possible, but probably still think too much just like a lot of other novice coyote trappers out there, but I do feel I can still sift through the lemon ideas when they are tossed out there.
Sorry to keep bouncing back to your tip Bob, but it is a good tip and one that gets me thinking about how coyotes react in certain situations.
I imagine my good location set up, here comes joe and blo junior coyote down just as I had hoped. Joe and blo both get caught, series of yelps from the initial catch, and ma and pa here that from the distance and shoot to a high spot to see what the hell just happened.
Maybe generally speaking, thats how I would anticipate a response from ma and pa, or any other coyotes within the area.
What about bait stations, I imagine them working them the same way. Scoping out the 411 before they head in to gorge.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 5, 2008 12:08:46 GMT -6
interesting thoughts and I`m sure correct. but in non stresseed populations, I just stack up 6 traps in a row and works just like fox. note, NON STRESSED. now on a mini hi point idea and story. I have a major pig dump I set and take from 12-24 coyotes a year there, usually 15-18 fast in week to ten days and then none left, ( october/november). then come back in late jan and pick off maybe 6 more double or two, but generally one at a time and few days nothing. they compost the dead pigs with a huge dump truck size pile of sawdust, and the coyotes dig out and drag around the deads. there is always a fresh un -used pile that is dumped that they scoop the sawdust to bury more on the composting pile, as warrents. I saw where one kept coming in and ignoring my sets and yet fed and drug out deads nightly. he had to know the sets were there as all doped up and all the good things we all do. well I am thinking how can I snare or blind set this sob? I look at the fresh sawdust pile a couple mornings in a row and every night he climbs up on the top and sits there, as I see it in the frost. the pile is only 20 feet from the deads, so not like has to get up there to see anything. I can`t figure how to stake so I wire (good) two #3`s onto a concrete block and bury down in the sawdust like a dead man and then blend in the 2 traps side by side in the sawdust and "peak" the pile right over them. next day had him , old toughy. never had another track or visit for several days, and left. he wasn`t worth the effort, but then what coyote is? it`s the game that draws us, not the catch. one more , fwiw, all this tuff is just my opinion, but a learned opinion
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 5, 2008 12:09:06 GMT -6
lol, like didn`t read it in a book.
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Post by coydog on Sept 5, 2008 12:18:01 GMT -6
"it`s the game that draws us, not the catch" Thats the truth.
Thats a good story Bob, did the ole saw pile coyote have a foiled look on his face? I bet you had an ear to ear grin, worthless coyote or not.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 5, 2008 12:59:37 GMT -6
he just stood there defiant, likle some of those old ones do. didn`t look away like a pup. never howled, nothing, just stared and dared. that concrete block he couldn`t pull out. after i dinged him I pulled on it and was amazed how buried it was.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Sept 5, 2008 14:31:54 GMT -6
hunting season pressure will move coyotes to areas of less pressure. ADC pressure is more subtle but constant. The high spot around dens is dead on, many times this is where the adults will be overlooking the pup's and to keep them safe. It could be a tall wash bank with cedars they can peg you before you know it.
The high spot is also a good place when trapping these stock killing coyotes as many times they will appraoch this spot and over look the sheep before they move in for a meal and to feed those pup's.
As coyodog mentioned in an area void of rolling hills and the such a high spot can be a great place to put traps for fall/winter trapping. High is relative to the area in which one is trapping.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 7, 2008 16:36:37 GMT -6
I can't get past making sets to target alphas. Enough said.
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2008 6:46:18 GMT -6
......"a coyote has never been to the moon"
neither have I........
Mark June makes some good points- and I agree 100% with him on the research of novel objects. How could anyone not agree? its proven in researching, and its certainly proven by observation.
Hey..think Mark read the article I did about this say 5 years ago in T & PC? LOL...
and yes indeed, it has practical uses.
Is anyone here, going to argue visuals don't have an effect on coyotes?
Id hope not.
if you add a visual into a coyotes home territory, they notice- and they are both repelled and attracted to it. I firmly believe that placing a visual close to a set(s), provides a distraction if you will, when they enocunter sets- that is, they have a couple of things to compete with their attention spans, for lack of a better term.
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Post by garman on Sept 8, 2008 9:51:04 GMT -6
I can't get past making sets to target alphas. Enough said. If you remember reading Hoofbeats he speaks about styling your set towards the alpha, the adults by making more subtle sets, urine posts, blind sets.
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2008 10:52:56 GMT -6
imo they will all take the first coyopte by, pup or adult. I wouldn`t want any type set that purposefully eliminated any chances at a particular age group.
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Post by garman on Sept 8, 2008 10:57:54 GMT -6
I believe the point Mark and O'gorman make are if you set up to catch the alpha's (adults) first the pups hang around and get caught quicker. In other words that juveniles are young and stupid and hang around to get caught if you have plenty of sets there to catch them I can see where the concept makes sense, but who knows. There are many diff't ways to skin a cat, er coyote, er opossum, er skunk!!
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Post by trappnman on Sept 8, 2008 11:08:39 GMT -6
ok- say all that is true- please tell me WHAT set you make, that repels non alphas?
cause then I'd use the opposite to trap nothing but pups.....
and I don't know any that do........
like bob says- first come first serve is how it goes on my line...
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Post by robertw on Sept 8, 2008 11:17:05 GMT -6
Guys, Your making this whole thing a lot more complex than it really is! Buy Bob Wendts video and go catch some coyotes!
This armchair expert / coyotology is BS, quit complicating things!
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Post by bobwendt on Sept 8, 2008 11:33:37 GMT -6
buy the FOX video! more info and applicable to coyotes too.
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Post by garman on Sept 8, 2008 11:34:25 GMT -6
I do not believe it is about repelling non-alphas it is about making more attractive to alphas. Also not that I care either way, just letting know my interpretation of what they are stating.
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