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Post by bobwendt on Feb 10, 2005 5:27:03 GMT -6
one more thought, sight of the tore up circle alone is ZERO here, it is all odor. Get a mattock and tear up an area as big or bigger than the catch circle right next to it and they tramp all over it, so that eliminates sight revulsion and that leaves nothing but the smell, in 6 strawberry sunday quantity.
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Post by trappnman on Feb 10, 2005 7:40:30 GMT -6
ANY gland smell has an individual ID.
which is why hounds can run an individual animal even though it passes through trails of others of its kind.
A good beagle for example gets on ONE track and stays on it- no matter how many other rabbits might cross that line.
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Post by Wiley on Feb 10, 2005 9:33:40 GMT -6
Good post guidestick!
You are correct, two strange dogs get together and what do they sniff? That's right, THEIR ASS!
HELLO BOB?
BW: "If coyotes are smart cookies, how do you explain the common doubles caught even by amatuers and the frequent but less often triples, quads etc- but almost always in fresh "un-analed" sets?"
Because the catch circles.....
1. LOOK OUT OF PLACE 2. SMELL OUT OF PLACE
It taint gotta notin ta do wit glands duuuuuude!
Guys, you want to settle this real quick? The next time you shoot a coyote, take it to a coyote hot spot in the snow and squirt the entire gland content out on the ground right out your pickup window.
That way you leave nothing that .....
1. LOOKS OUT OF PLACE 2. SMELLS OUT OF PLACE except the entire gland contents.
Next time you come by, see how many coyote tracks you see circling that area vs. digging the hell out of it.
Do it and report your findings. Let's settle this myth once and for all.
~SH~
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 10, 2005 9:52:12 GMT -6
I contend the anal gland material coming out of a dead coyote by manual extraction is not the same as coming out of a terrorized coyote ripping around in a trap circle. If sight of torn up ground does not cause aversion, and you say it is not the gland smell either, then why do you always put a fresh set in next to the catch ring, like duh. It can`t be pee as that is universially time tested proven over the years to attract others. This really is not even a debatable issue.
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Post by trappincoyotes39 on Feb 10, 2005 14:05:11 GMT -6
Bob you contend that a anal gland smell comming out of a dead coyote isn't the same as the terroized coyote, then go back to the orignal posting, and look where you state that: oh boy, I never use coyote gland lure, at least not anal based as it actually repels coyotes. So are you then saying processed gland lure is still big no no, and will repel coyotes? or is it just fresh gland smells that do that? If used must be in ever so tiny amounts, like a 1/2 drop, again is that fresh gland from a live coyote? or that taken and ground from a dead coyote?
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Post by trappnman on Feb 10, 2005 16:36:56 GMT -6
You are correct, two strange dogs get together and what do they sniff? That's right, THEIR ASS!
true- then what?
75% one of them turns on his back and gets submissive...why?
Don't get me wrong- I don't have an opinion on this anal gland thing either way...but that still doesn't mean apples equal oranges...
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Post by coydog on Feb 10, 2005 16:45:21 GMT -6
75% one of them turns on his back and gets submissive...why?
T-man, Im not a nit- picker by all means, but from all the butt sniffin Ive noticed from dogs, the after-sniff either ends up in a fight or a fu,..... well, I wont say, but you get the idea.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 10, 2005 16:51:44 GMT -6
tc35, I`ve never extracted anal material from live coyotes, and doubt anyone else ever has either, so have to say all anal based coyote gland lures are glands from dead coyotes. On a lighter note, here is a story my dad told me when I was about 5 years old, funny the things a guy remembers. WHY DOGS ALWAYS SMELL EACH OTHERS HINEYS--- back in the olden days dogs wore their tails and b holes like we wear hats. There was this giant dog dance and all the dogs in the world showed up and hung their tails and b holes on the racks as they entered, as was the custom. Some young pups thought it would just be great giggles to set off the fire alarms and run thru the crowd yelling "fire, fire". Sure enough bedlam broke out and as all the dogs rushed the exit door they grabbed the first tail and hiney they came to and ran out to save their lives. Of course in the mess everyone got the wrong tail. To this day they are still looking and sniffing trying to get the right tails back to the right owners. And that`s my story and I`m sticking to it.
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Post by guidestick on Feb 10, 2005 18:43:21 GMT -6
BMW, If I may, I believe that when a coyote is trapped that in fact draws other coyotes and in all the confusion they may end up in on e of those all important fresh back-up sets. (doubles and triples) How ever if he avoids getting caught I would bet he will be extremely cautious of any thing that reminds him of that situation. (human odor, catch circle, ect.) Having said that it still is not the gland lure, urine, or saliva, that spooked him. It was the bad experience of watching another coyote spinning around a stake making a catch circle and listening to the trapped coyote bark with irritation/warning. Even if in your area catch circles are ZERO they can still watch, learn, and be taught. And the coyotes that have not had a bad experience are the ones that are spinning on the stake next time around. I am the worlds slowest typer so I can't convey all my theorys o r I would do nothing but sit here and type. By the way Bob if we ever cross at rendevous I would like you to buy me 7 strawberry sundaes and see if that theory holds true. Ryan
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 10, 2005 18:50:59 GMT -6
you eat them and I`ll buy them. funny story, back in the boom I set up at the illinois meeting selling fox pee at 25 bucks a gallon. I mean the dark aged heavy amonia stuff, not sewer , but froze out POTENT winter stuff. This drunk trapper comes over and says he hears I`ll give a free gallon to anyone that drinks a pint. I says, oh ya, sure. That son of a gun opened a gallon and drank at least a full pint. Geese what could I do, I gave him the gallon. His buds came back by later and said he was wretching terrible and looking real bad. The next year they said he belched ammonia fumes and farted fox urine stink for days but survived. Never saw him again. I bet he runs from catch circles tho.
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Post by Stef on Feb 10, 2005 20:10:47 GMT -6
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Post by Steve B on Feb 10, 2005 21:47:03 GMT -6
lmao at that last reply Bob Steve B
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Post by Wiley on Feb 11, 2005 20:24:26 GMT -6
BW: "If sight of torn up ground does not cause aversion, and you say it is not the gland smell either, then why do you always put a fresh set in next to the catch ring, like duh."
Bob I don't know if you have a reading comprehension problem or if you just like playing head games. I have stated repeatedly that anything that looks and smells out of place CAN create caution in SOME coyotes and that is why I always have a fresh set nearby.
No where did I state that the sight of torn up ground DOES NOT cause aversion.
The aversion could be created by the combination of a tore up circle, commercial bait odors, various coyote odors, and human odor.
The other possibilities are whether or not that coyote had a small weak trap snap his toe or seeing another coyote that was caught in a trap.
Nobody knows for sure why, I just know it happens.
I don't buy your gland theory because it doesn't make sense like a lot of your theories. LOL!
Some scientists claim that certain hormones such as estrogen are so volatile that they cannot be secured in lure and that the "in heat" urine theory is a bunch of sh*t.
My best educated guess is that it is a combination of something that looks and smells out of place combined with human odor. Every coyote has some degree of caution with human odor. I see that every time I feed roadkilled deer to my pet yippers. They never feed on it until my scent disapates to a tolerable level.
~SH~
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2005 6:03:05 GMT -6
yep , what you said, same smells as the fresh set next to it (human, lure,fresh dirt,pee,etc), minus the anal squirts. "in heat" is hooey too, as canines (wild) are pair maters, so if bonded already no more interest in "heat" pee than any other pee. I swear , I could tell you the sun is going to come up tommorrow and you would argue it isn`t. When the ky. boys go to the store and ask for pair maters they mean those round red things that grow on vines and you slice on a hamburger. I don`t know what you s.dakota boys mean when you say pair maters, heck could be two guys dancing togather.
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Post by Wiley on Feb 12, 2005 8:19:07 GMT -6
BW: "yep , what you said, same smells as the fresh set next to it (human, lure,fresh dirt,pee,etc), minus the anal squirts."
That's not what I said. It was your contention that the anal squirts created the "fear factor", not mine. My contention that it was a combination of something that looks and smells out of place.
You can't even remember what you type let alone me. You're a dandy!
BW: "in heat" is hooey too, as canines (wild) are pair maters, so if bonded already no more interest in "heat" pee than any other pee."
The "in heat" urine that is sold is hooey BECAUSE the hormones are too volatile to maintain not BECAUSE coyotes are pair maters. When the female coyote comes into estrous, you better believe that odor creates more interest than normal pee. It may not last long but when it comes straight from the female that's coming into heat, it creates an intense interest.
BW: "I swear , I could tell you the sun is going to come up tommorrow and you would argue it isn`t."
No, just your backwards thinking like coyotes have no interest in "in heat" urine just because they are pair maters. RIDICULOUS! When that female coyote comes into estrous, any male coyote is checking everywhere she pees.
I swear, how can anyone trap coyotes for as long as you have and know so little about them biologically. Blows my mind.
Since you have an inability to comprehend the written word and would probably think you have a contradiction, let me explain it again.
"In heat" urine THAT IS SOLD COMMERCIALLY is hooey because you cannot maintain the volatile estrogen odors.
"In heat" urine THAT COMES STRAIGHT FROM A FEMALE COYOTE COMING INTO ESTROUS creates intense interest in her mate.
Did you get that (heavy sigh)?
~SH~
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2005 9:42:27 GMT -6
you bone headed gman, you better look in the mirror and then go read my unedited post that says"if already bonded" sheesh. and don`t go deleting your last post, I want everyone to witness you state of knucklehead-a-tudinous behavior. I have to go scrape more skunks now and put up a few more cats before I can break again.
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Post by MadDog on Feb 12, 2005 18:14:00 GMT -6
Wiley, Why don't you make a trapping video or tell us how you trap. Maybe we can find something to criticize you about.
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Post by bobwendt on Feb 12, 2005 19:18:01 GMT -6
just want everyone to know my chastizing of wiley is all in jest, it`s a love hate relationship. I don`t know his motives or real thoughts, I think the same deal but he will have to speak for himself. I know I`m thick hided enough that I enjoy the banter. I`d be lost without him. might even be some jems of knowledge in the discourse if one reads between the jabs.
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Post by Wright Brothers on Feb 13, 2005 10:15:19 GMT -6
I'm glad you two go at it on here, you have forgot more about coyotes than I know. And if I remember correctly, you two are buds.
I can't comment on yotes, but will about others and scent. When prepping deer for processing many "hunters" don't remove the bladder. When finding doe in heat bladder I thought I found a jackpot. Not so, it works good if used right away, but loses its affect fast and could never find a way to preserve it, even freezing it seemed worthless.
When stand hunting a good trail that gets traffic every time the deer move, and a deer busts me and stares and stomps on the ground, the next deer to come down that trail goes on alert soon as it gets to that spot and the trail goes cold for days. Leads me to believe that animals release danger/alert signs with scent. Tarsel and others.
Another observation, the dog laying on couch when a car comes in the lane, if I know who it is the dog acts differantly than when I dont know, I think he scents the differance. I'm sure he learned body language from the family also.
It's been said that confidence vs apprehensive means a lot when making sets. I think it dose, and think it's a scent thing.
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Post by redfoxtrapper2000 on Feb 14, 2005 15:41:22 GMT -6
I dont know if I agree some with Bob or not but a good gland lure not pee but Ogorman or yodel dog works well for me. Mostly after a grey fox or a coyote catch,I have excellent results this way on coyote after a grey and beleive it or not on red fox after a coyote. Okay,I know that may stir the pot but numbers never lie .
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