Coyote/gland

[trappincoyotes39]

Nope Bob alot of my gland lure come from John graham and they are 100% all glands, fresh ground: decpetion and seduction, I know some others are filled with turds and urine.

[Stef]

I like using coyote gland lure at post set and it worked for me almost all the time with the last coyotes usually.

Mine is not a "TRUE" gland lure... I mean, for me a Straight gland lure is glands and pee.
My Extremes are builded like a call lure ( many ingredients) but real heavy in glands and they were build for the wolf trappers in mind because both of them have no skunk ess. at all in them.

But set after set... I use more call lures than anything else.

Stef

[bobwendt]

red fox gland is great on reds and coyotes, but too valuable for me to squander on coyotes , so like I said bait and pee and save my red gland for reds. I make my own red gland lure, have for 35 years, and red anals are too hard to come by anymore what with live fox selling so much higher than dead ones.

[lynxcat]

On topic...but off topic...I use a LOT of cat gland lure when cat trapping...MY OWN glands...NO fillers just pure cat. I mix about 4oz with 1/2 gallon of cat pee and use it at ALL of my cat sets.....you aint NEVER smelled cat pee this good.
A question.....gland lure.....pee....turds. Arent they in essence all "glandular lures" The all smell of the animal ....hmmmmm
later
lynx

[trappnman]

Certainly different glands convey different things-

but all would be, I would think, the essence of the animal.

foot pads, anal, urine or scat...all spell coyote to another coyote.

now to me- a coyote and coyote urine and coyote scat..all smell different...so I can only imagine how they ae read by another cooyte.

To me- laying a big ole coyote down in the grass next to a set puts about as much "coyote" smell down as anything...

[Wiley]

Trappingcoyote35: "I feel coyote gland lures, once removed from the dead coyote, ground and mellowed don't have near the reaction you talk about versus a fresh remake with those smells comming from it."

Trappingcoyote35,

You are obviously a student of observation and experience.

Good job!

Every coyote dropping has anal gland secretions on it. To suggest that there is a "fear factor" involved in a coyotes primary means of identifying eachother is ridiculous.

To me it is the "UNNATURAL" appearance of the circle with overwhelming coyote odors coming from it that becomes a red flag FOR SOME COYOTES simply because it's totally unnatural.

Every coyote has a different level of curiousity and a different level of caution. Whichever behavioral characteristic is stronger based on the set and the individual coyote's behavior determines success or failure.

Keep up the good posts!


~SH~

[trappnman]

so a "fear factor" is nonsense---but a "stress factor" is right on?

ah.....

[Wiley]

No Tman,

The "fear factor" from anal glands is nonsense but the "stress factor" from hormones (?) or other secretions emitted during stress is a POSSIBILITY.

Anal gland secretions is a natural occurance every time a coyote takes a dump. What could possibly create fear in that?

I think the hesitation of coyotes coming into a catch circle is:

1. The unnaturalness of the appearance. - FACT
2. The unnatural amount of animal odors OF ALL KINDS that is present at that place. - FACT
3. Potentially some "stress odors" of some kind - STRICTLY THEORY.

Care to take a run at that? Bring it! LOL!



~SH~

[Stef]

1. The unnaturalness of the appearance. - FACT

But as soon as there's snow cover covering the catch circles ( I mean a light snow 2-4 inches ) these catch circles become the hotspots again...
Plenty of digging, tracks etc...

So in other words... as soon as there's snow cover on top of these remakes or old catch circles the naturalness appearance (white all around) makes the coyotes working the old sets again.

Good point!

Stef

[Wiley]

Exactly Stef!

The odors, although somewhat diminshed, remain after snowfall but the visual circle is no longer so apparent.

That's why I believe visual is the number one issue with refusals on catch circles.

Also, I think a smaller more defined circle creates more caution than a larger circle.

It's the combination of the visual aspects of the catch circle and large amounts of animal odors in combination with human scent.

Think about this.

An alfalfa field may have tall alfalfa one day and nothing but round bales the next. That's quite a habitat change but it doesn't seem to bother the coyotes because you seem them mousing while you are baling.

One can only conclude that its the combination of large amounts of animals smells in combination with a small catch circle and human odor that creates the caution in SOME COYOTES because their environment is constantly changing and a catch circle, in and of itself, should not create the caution.



~SH~

[bobwendt]

snow cover does not negate circle reluctance in any area I have ever worked, only time, anywhere from a few days to a week usually will cool it off. Anal glands are similar in skunks,canines, mustela etc etc. All shoot in quantity with fear, from the dog on the exam table at the vets office to the startled skunk, to the head thumped badger or mink. Anal material in quantity ( catch circle ) does indeed instill fear in other coyotes. In micro amounts on a naturally expelled turd it marks territory or identifies the turd-er. In red fox is the only exception, the more anal the more attraction. You guys want to rely on your remakes to bang coyotes ,or the indiscriminate use of coyote anal gland based lures , have at it. I`ll pass, not from some report or theory, but from valid time tested field experience in large numbers of trapped coyotes east and west, pups or adults, big or small, texas or indiana, wyoming or ks. - they all react the same to anal gland in quantity, FEAR!

[trappnman]

Prof Wiley E:

I'm just a simple farmboy, so don'r know about book larnin' and stuff, but one thing perplexes me (whatever that word means, but it sounds eduacated)....

The "fear factor" from anal glands is nonsense but the "stress factor" from hormones (?) or other secretions emitted during stress is a POSSIBILITY.

Anal gland secretions is a natural occurance every time a coyote takes a dump. What could possibly create fear in that?

some questions:

1) what is a major cause of stress?

2) how is the "stress" smell, released?

3) what is one of the first outward signs (in humans and dogs) of stress?

[Stef]

I try...

1) what is a major cause of stress?

Past animals seen in traps
Too much urine, saliva, coyote blood, lure all over
"Visual" associated with too much coyote smell
Etc...

2) how is the "stress" smell, released?

?...
My answer is mostly the same as above.

3) what is one of the first outward signs (in humans and dogs) of stress?

Excitation.... "shyness" (spelling)

Stef

[bobwendt]

major cause of stress- kids and women.

[Wiley]

1) what is a major cause of stress?

That's a vague question.

I am going to assume that question means what environmental conditions create stress in coyotes as opposed to what physiological conditions take place within the coyote to create stress such as increased metabolic rate, etc.

For "SOME COYOTES" it would be things that look and smell unfamiliar to them or things that look and smell like something they associate with danger based on previous experiences.

A distinct tore up circle with bait odors, animal odors, bait and/or lure odors, and a whisp of human odor or a combination of these things is not something "SOME COYOTES" are used to seeing and/or smelling so this could create stress in "SOME COYOTES" but not in others.


2) how is the "stress" smell, released?

Who knows?

Is stress smell released is a better question?

I don't know because it's only a theory that I am willing to acknowledge. Z first presented the theory in a previous discussion and it's certainly worth consideration but difficult to prove.

I KNOW that some animals know when an animal of their own kind has been in danger. I have seen cattle bellar at the place where another cow has fallen on the ice and couldn't get up. They obviously smell something but I don't know what it is.

We only know how a coyote reacts but we speculate as to why.

Stress related odors could be "blood", it could be "sweat", it could be a combination of blood, sweat, saliva, urine, and gland secretions.

Who knows? Who will ever know?

What do I know for sure?

I know that a dropping with a large amount of gland lure smeared on it has no negative affect on most coyotes at a natural appearing set once your human odor has disapated from the site.

Why do I know that?

Because I have caught hundreds of coyotes that way and gland secretions are common on droppings.


3) what is one of the first outward signs (in humans and dogs) of stress?

Sweating and heavy breathing.......wait, that can also be outward signs of pleasure.

WHO'S YOUR DADDY? SPANK! SPANK!

Sorry, lost my head again!



What's your point T-dude?


Like Magnum, I always keep a fresh set nearby for those "circle shy" yippers. We agree on that.


~SH~

[trappnman]

Interesting answers stef and wiley-

but you are trying too hard!

lets look at some answers that are a little more...instinctual....

1) what is a major cause of stress?

Fear

2) how is the "stress" smell, released?

through fluids would be one answer.... and

3) what is one of the first outward signs (in humans and dogs) of stress?

piddling, loose bowels


*************************************
stress....fear... such related emotions-

so close in reactions..... very easily linked together (hey, my Sociology degree is paying off!) ....

can one really separate them saying a "stress" signal is possible..but a "fear" one not?

One would think- if stress is a viable theroy- and I think it certainly could be...that chemically it would be similar to fear...and would not the PRIME way of transmitting that be through the fluids in feces and urine?

trappnman

[coydog]

[MChewk]

I like this post...gets you thinking ...First signs of stress/fear is change in my experience(really doesn't help here for trappers) pupil dilation (possibly more attentiveness to set backing,or objects at set like holes,bones,droppings with gland on them (lol), guides,etc), increased heart rate, fidgeting /pacing, outward excitedness. What about fur or hackles being flared...bristled up? Not sure about olfactory senses...

[guidestick]

Anal gland lure producing fear in a coyote is plain ridiculous. I will go along with the sweat from the pads to a certain extent. If a coyote sees another coyote in a trap or was near by when caught he will put two and two together I am positive of. A coyotes temperment naturally puts them on edge when they see some thing they are unfamiliar (catch circle) with but it isn't the gland lure. In areas where the coyotes are thicker, and are exposed to more trapped coyotes, I would assume this avoidence would occur more often. If we are talking theory on anal gland it is mine that the anal secretion is a personal I.D. tag of a particular coyote. A mate or offspring knows the certain smell of a coyote in their family. (I would also go as far to say they can tell the sex by this smell, but that is another theory.) When marking their location or establishing boundries this secretion is left on the dropping to notify intruding coyotes to beware among other things. Urine also works into this as well but I don't want to get off subject.
Ryan

[bobwendt]

guidestick, it is all relative to quantity, i.e. one strawbarry sunday is good, eat 6 and I guarantee the 7th will repel you big time. If coyotes are smart cookies, how do you explain the common doubles caught even by amatuers and the frequent but less often triples, quads etc- but almost always in fresh "un-analed" sets?