it always comes back to coyotes...................

[trappnman]

yes, to the above

[braveheart]

I too am a bean field person.I don't like corn fields unless I can find a bare spot or a draw.The stalk fiber gets all wrapped up in the chain and swivels.After the farmers lay the gas down in the bean ground they never mess with them.I did get my first coyote ADC call yesterday a farmer is releasing 200 pheasants and wants me to knock down the egg eaters and coyotes.I have a new lure to try out that has been brewing up see if it works.

[trappnman]

When I was trapping coyotes for the collaring, I put on a 7-8 collars one spring, mid April to 1st part of May. And I caught all females, several of them nursing females. Which was a big surprise to me- I went into it thinking I'd catch almost all males at that time of year.

I told this to a friend, and asked him what it meant.

He told me it meant I caught 7-8 female coyotes.

Now you can take that comment 2 ways- 1) smartass or 2) meaningful

and the lesson was- I DID catch 7-8 females....but the sample size was so small....it was like flipping a penny- I just got heads 8 times in a row- nothing more or less.

and that's a lesson I try to keep in mind- only until you have a large sample, can things be concluded.

a good example s speed dips, paint, etc. I often read where wax is pooh-poohed, and stuff like "tell it ot the coyote I caught last week"

heck- my first year of breaking 100, way back, was a perfect storm- no one else trapping , no one hunting, very high populations and I got 107 using speed dip.

I was convinced- forget the wax. next year was a real dry year, can't remember my numbers, but decent. 3rd year- rain, rain and rain....and the dig outs, the absolute avoidance of the trap (tracks packed down around the pattern, nary a one over trap) showed me something was dead wrong- and then the rust..oh my...put a dipped trap in the ground, and 2 days later rust spots.

so I started covering sets with sprayed urine- and while the problem didn't go away, it was muted enough to know this was helping. Years later in reading Hoofbeats, I was pleased to learn O'G stated he would use a gal of urine, to mask 50-60 traps in rainy conditions, to mask the rusting.

Later that year, in Jan and in snow- with waxed traps, with dipped traps, with F1 traps- I got a real education- that's been20+ years ago and have waxed ever since.

-------------------------------------------

[cameron1976]

Overall this is a very informative thread.

[trappnman]

another thing I read recently, is that high up call lure, does nothing.

now think on that- we use scents for 1 reason- to attract a coyote via his nose.

I have seen, countless times with hounds- all of a sudden the nose goes up in air, and nose held high they go directly to a bunny, or a coon track, etc. Those hounds are called jump dogs, and no one that hunts with dogs, would EVER deny the ability to wind game from quite a distance.

so to those that think a high lure doesn't "call" better than a buried lure, is just spinning their wheels insofar as understanding coyotes.

I just don't understand the false information-

I've caught cats- but lifetime less than a good cat trapper in a day-

so I don't give advice on cat trapping- I have no conclusions on cat trapping

[trappincoyotes39]

I would need to know what High means in your book? Do I think an odor needs to be 6-8ft off the ground to call coyotes? No way.

I have called in a pile of them laying prone on the ground so my silhouette was 20" off the level or there abouts, I have had them wind me at 200-400 yards with no problems. No one is expecting to draw a coyote with just the smell of lure 200-400 yards are they? You still need the wind to bring that scent to their noses so a lure on a bush,post etc 20-24" off the ground can easily be detected by coyotes much further than the majority are going to come to investigate such, with out a much larger attraction to work them in to a trap set. Without the wind blowing in their direction of travel doesn't matter how high the call lure is.

[trappnman]

its a given that wind needs to be present, since all scent is, is small particles of a solid.

do I think a scent has to be 6-8' off the ground to call coyotes? no, I do not- but at the same time- the higher up a lure is, the farther it's going to be detected.

I find it odd to read stuff like "No one is expecting to draw a coyote with just the smell of lure 200-400 yards are they" and "detected by coyotes much further than the majority are going to come to investigate " because after many years of raising, training, hunting and competing with hounds I find so many are not giving a canines nose the credit they deserve.

how far do you think a dead pile reaches out?

If I can smell a dead pile from quite a distance- how far hard to say. We have a local plant out in country that makes a dairy product- and I can smell that from miles away. and can smell dairys for a mile or more easy on hot days.

I read a study once, where drug dogs (German shepherds to name the breed) could smell something like a millionth of a drop of scent, on clothes pin, buried feet underground.

With German Sheperds of all dogs.

What on earth can a coyote's nose smell, after 1000s of years of selective survival of the fittest breeding?

What does O'G do? often takes jars with holes in lid, and hangs them high in trees as a true LDC. I think, if a coyote can 1) smell it and 2) want it...he is going to find it.

High means as much placement as anything. the more vegetation around- the higher the lure needs to go- if your purpose is a true away from the set call lure.

if I'm going to use it- why limit myself to ground level, or on a backing? I got that there already

I don't use a high call lure a lot- probably should do more- but when I do- its as high up as I can get it- often a round bale, or on a branch of a tree-

[Deleted]

I remember a couple of photos Stef posted years ago showing a black wolf with it's nose pointed almost straight up and underneath where Stef had placed his LDC.  I also seem to rememeber a photo of a moose that came to the LDC and it's nose was straight out alsmot touching the bottle so Stef was hanging'em high.

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman all depends durring the day hot air rises and at nigh cold air sinks. Wind is the key. Not if we have a call lure 24" off the ground or 6' off the ground.i give a coyotes nose all the credit in the world hence my posting on the matter of scent height it really doesn't matter as long as they are downwind. Let's face it most call lures have some skunk in it, a super high concentration of organic sulphur and we think a coyote can't makes these odor cues known downwind because the odor is not 5' or above? Sorry not buying that for a minute.

As far as dead piles they offer far,far more drawing power due not only to the smells, but the sight and sound aspects they present and become a more constant source than a trap set and call lure on a limb 6' off the ground. When calling coyotes I like to mix in crow mobbing and magpie sounds, coyotes know these sounds generally mean some groceries to be had. In the winter I have pulled a congregation of coyotes to dead piles of 6-8 road kill deer etc. they will have far more drawing power than a single deer or two which are consumed and gone in no time, we will not pull a group of coyotes to call lure on a limb with any consistency what so ever. With large draw stations we can pull those coyotes aways to better suit our needs never going to do that with just call lure. Setting on their travel way and pulling them 2 different things. If I am setting along their natural route of travel then why do I need a call lure? If I am trying to move the majority of coyotes that come through a drainage then I want a large bait station again because it adds so much more than just A smell.

[trappincoyotes39]

Seldom what does a wolf smelling at a call lure mean? Was his set along the travel way of the wolf or did this LDC lure pull that wolf a few 100 yards off the line of travel?

I used to use fox urine under my tree stand when bow hunting, the deer would smell it and investigate it for a good period of time right below me, they picked up the urine smell with the wind blowing such to them and that was right on the forest floor, yet they had no problem detecting such. All about the wind.

[trappnman]

when the deer were THERE, they put their noses to the urine.

really, if you believe tat the ability of scent to get out there is the same ground level, 10" up or 5' up- so be it. I disagree 100%, but am not going to debate it with you.

and if you think you can't pull a coyote with proper use of lures, then again, so be it- I'm not going to reinvent the wheel on scent

the wolf/moose example was to show where the luremaker of a good call lure, placed it.

[bobbrennan1]

As 1080 would say bait em up! Johnny Thorpe trick was to minnows in a soda can and hang in a tree to pull fox off a 2 track a few feet into cover to hide them when they got caught.

[trappincoyotes39]

Bob a few ft? Then why would it need to be hung high? A fox nose can certainly smell a few feet even 10" off the ground? Was it to keep other critters from getting their paws on the soda can? Because no reason to think it was to aid in the drawing power of the odor from a few ft?

Tman pull a coyote how far with a high call,lure? That has been my point all along.................

If we are talking 10 yards then I see no reason to hang it high as that odor at 18"-24" will be just as noticed down wind as anything higher as they have the nose to smell such. Again if I am 20" off the ground and they can wind my human odor at 100's of yards they can do the same thing with a LDC correct?

[trappnman]

no, your point is that a scent at ground level, or 1' up gets into the wind the same as one high.

again, I'll not argue it with you- some think a coyote can't be caught at a high backing, or you need fresh set tools, etc. Trap on!
I'm starting to believe you have zero experience with scent to lure coyotes. perhaps its because you snared and shot more than trapped..

and why I say that- is NO ONE would deny the more wind (higher up) the more it gets out.

how far depends 100% on how its dispersed- and the more wind, the higher up in the wind, the further it is going to go.

might as well argue sun comes up in west- it might to some....but thats more not knowing east from west than fact

[trappincoyotes39]

I have plenty of experiences with scent in coyote trapping and scents what it means to call coyotes as well..........

The higher up a scent is the more is can be moved about and be run higher into the atmosphere as well. Cold air reacts differently than warm air on many fronts. Cold air has more density to it than warm air. Same as a bullet and flight path at 30 degrees versus 75-80 degrees.

The point remains how far are you drawing coyotes with a 6 ft placement of the call lure? Versus one 18"-24" off the ground? Are you moving coyotes 30ft,90 ft or 400 ft with a high placement of call lure to your set?

[trappincoyotes39]

Tman not arguing it may get out further with a higher placement again variables there, my point has been this: what benefit is it to you as a coyote trapper to have a call lure 6ft off the ground versus one placed at 18"-24" off the ground? How far are you moving coyotes to attract them to your trap sets with just LDC 6ft high?

The point I was making is doesn't matter if I am laying or sitting or standing those coyotes can smell me from a long distance away, so why would I make an effort to place call lure high if the end result is not pulling them far enough that such warrants the use in that manner?

At 18" if the coyote is downwind and he smells me or the call lure at say 300 yards the results are what? Their gone with my scent will the call lure pull mthem by itself 300 yards? Or if the placement is 6ft off the ground will it pull him another 100-200 yrds or will they not break stride and keep on going?

If they can smell me at 18" and a LDC at 18" and I am trying to move them 30-40 ft how would 6ft placement benefit me as a coyote trapper?

The bigger benefit as we all know is a large draw station that will pull coyotes much further than some LDC on a limb correct? If there is no to little benefit from breaking off the path of travel why would knowing things about coyotes as we do, make them do such to any real degree to state it is a benefit?

I mean place call lure anywhere one wishes , but does it truly draw coyotes or make some feel better about the set with high call lure?

[trappnman]

all the numbers you gave are meaningless, and moot as well.

Why?

because no matter the number of feet- its always going TO BE MORE the higher up a scent is placed.

but does it truly draw coyotes or make some feel better about the set with high call lure?


if it was just my opinion, I'd wonder.

but when 1080 and O'G both say the same-

you don't want to argue- then answer this-

do you believe that the more wind a scent gets, the more it dissipates?

that's pretty simple- a yes or no.

The bigger benefit as we all know is a large draw station that will pull coyotes much further than some LDC on a limb correct?


of course- but how does 1, negate the other?

let me ask another question- how often have you used a high up call lure?

[trappnman]

lets say you are setting in a gully, or against elevation, or in trees or tall weeds-

any value and putting scent up above that?

[trappincoyotes39]

The numbers mean something how far away DO YOU feel you are pulling coyotes to your trap sets with a high placement of call lure? Ie tracks in the snow confirmed this coyote hit the call lure at X distance and the tracks confirmed them comming on a straight line to the odor source?

I could careless what OG does with call lure, he also shoots a 25 STW for coyotes or did, who knows now what he uses?

Disapates or disperses ? It does not matter how far a lure goes downwind if it will not draw the coyote to your trap set correct? I could careless if a coyote smelled that call lure 1/2 a mile away if it does not bring him to the smell, other wise I need to set closer to him in order to catch him correct?

[trappnman]

ever hear the joke about the roof?