it always comes back to coyotes...................

[Aaron.F]

Jun 10, 2016 18:59:10 GMT -6 redsnow said:

I think part of it is the "confidence factor" too. I like to be able to smell my lure, it just makes me feel better. It might not help my catch? but at least I know it's there working.

I am in 100% agreement with this.

[Aaron.F]

Jun 10, 2016 17:53:46 GMT -6 @never said:

I have had exactly the opposite experience!  No kiddin, the exact opposite!  I tested the pipes twice, once with unknown scents as in actaul testing of scents that I do and the 2nd time, so as there would be no mistaken reaction, with two of my tested and time proven scents.  The coyote AVOIDED them and I'm serious, I could easily see with the "proven" scents the coyote would actaully turn away and avoid them!  I heard through the grapevine that the pipe set is intended for YOY, not adults.  I don't know and don't care.  
It never fails to amaze me, the differences of experiences we have trapping!!


 Now here's what I think is an interesting twist to the pipes.  When I pulled all sets last Januaray I pounded-in 3 sets of pipes(6), lured them as if they were my working sets and never looked at them until mid-April.  Of the 6 pipes I had 1 pipe with a few teeth marks and I don't know what chewed it, could have easily been a coon where that particular set was located.

Concerning scent strength.  I've used Setf's LDC in my walk-thrus and I'm here to tell you that when approaching from downwind I could smell that lure from 30yds-40yds away and I CAUGHT coyotes!

It is very interesting the differences that people experience trapping coyotes, I guess that is what makes coyotes the most fun.

You bring up a very good point on my lure choice at 2 poke hole flat sets, I do not use what you would call a ldc type lure. Normally it would be a gland lure and some type of curiosity lure or bait. Maybe that is one of the reasons of my lack of success with that type set.

[Deleted]

I seldom use gland lure at my sets, when I have used it, I never saw a difference in catch rate.  I hardly ever use a lure or bait at any set that hasn't been previously tested and showed me the results I want.  So, I really don't care what "kind" of lure it is, as long as it has shown properly during testing on it's own right.  My theory on this is, if coyotes really show they like a lure, I can't go wrong using multiples of those lures coyotes have shown they really like!  I will admit though, I'm a beliver in contrasting smells at a set as Steve does, so really that is my ONLY criteria for using lures at any set, walk-thru or some kind of dirt hole.

[trappnman]

I ride and work on old bikes. Its common when talking to someone else, and they say "it had a miss, but I fixed it" and when I asked what fixed it, they reply with 5-6 different things that they did- and problem solved. Well, yes..it is...but doing multiple things different, taught nothing. only by doing 1 thing at a time, does the cause become known.

And I think that applies to trapping in general, and coyotes as well. Unless you try something for a season or two to see what effect that singular change does, one doesn't get any information.

once at least some consistent success is reached and you have a baseline- whatever % that may be- then you can start trying a few things- say 1/2 of line is done 1 way, the rest another. Our usual test for a new lure, bait method is to on set up run 1/2 the line with Lori doing the new thing on each set, and the 2nd half me doing so (to eliminate individual mechanics). For example last year we wanted to know if using one bait (Showtime) over another (Kick Ass)would have any effect, with all else being as equal as possible on 2 things (1) 1st night catches and 2) overall success of sets compared to each other.

There was no difference- no difference with endless combinations of lures, settings, populations, etc.

So now we know we can use either, with equal confidence.

And I think mechanics are the same. Take the walkthrough. While I agree that the visuals are not there (but if you carry a bunch of skulls/hipbones around, placing one 20-50' as a stand alone attractant, it pays BIG dividends), if set on location (meaning multiple coyotes coming regularly) I find it to be a great set. And Seldom described the placement pretty well. keep in mind, I also lure the holes well, meaning lots of scent- and a good skunk lure is, as stated, going to be out there enough that coyotes will be aware of the set. Trouble I have had with pipes, bones etc as lure holders, is they seem to be able to get at it, and avoid the pattern. I think one needs to have a mindset that GIVEN THE OPPORTUNITY a coyote will avoid a pattern, and without a doubt a stark, obvious cookie cutter pattern with increase that behavior.

An old timer once said, or I read, can't remember who or where-

a coyote set should look either like a bomb went off that morning, or like its been there untouched for a year.

I tend to agree with that

[RdFx]

Ditto on the bomb, untouched idea !

[Deleted]

Come on all you weenies that are lurking, even if ya can't sing it, you can at least bring it!

[bluecoons]

Jun 10, 2016 7:08:05 GMT -6 cameron1976 said:

Jun 9, 2016 13:07:20 GMT -6 trappnman said:

boy, lots there that goes against my experience

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that Carman probably grew up more a red fox trapper than a coyote trapper. Let me clarify that I am NOT suggesting that Carman is unable to catch coyotes or that he is a poor trapper. What I am suggesting is that his home area is traditionally more fox country than it is coyote country, and as such he likely has more experience trapping reds. So is it possible that he is basing his thoughts on coyote urine from many years of trapping red fox?

Coincidentally, I just read an article that Russ wrote in 2008 or 09 for the pa trappers assoc. K9 book. The how's and why's of lure and urine usage. As of then his thoughts on urine use remained consistent With the segment posted from his coyote book.

[Deleted]

Glad to see your post bluecoon!

[redsnow]

I watched a man at a MD trap convention make the same set you described above, 99% sure I know his name. He was a fox trapper, from what I was told a very good one!

He used wobble holes, trap at the same spacing. And he was trapping in a hot spot!

Neat set, easy to make, and it works!

[cameron1976]

Jun 10, 2016 17:53:46 GMT -6 @never said:

I have had exactly the opposite experience!  No kiddin, the exact opposite!  I tested the pipes twice, once with unknown scents as in actaul testing of scents that I do and the 2nd time, so as there would be no mistaken reaction, with two of my tested and time proven scents.  The coyote AVOIDED them and I'm serious, I could easily see with the "proven" scents the coyote would actaully turn away and avoid them!  I heard through the grapevine that the pipe set is intended for YOY, not adults.  I don't know and don't care.  
It never fails to amaze me, the differences of experiences we have trapping!!


 Now here's what I think is an interesting twist to the pipes.  When I pulled all sets last Januaray I pounded-in 3 sets of pipes(6), lured them as if they were my working sets and never looked at them until mid-April.  Of the 6 pipes I had 1 pipe with a few teeth marks and I don't know what chewed it, could have easily been a coon where that particular set was located.

Concerning scent strength.  I've used Setf's LDC in my walk-thrus and I'm here to tell you that when approaching from downwind I could smell that lure from 30yds-40yds away and I CAUGHT coyotes!

Interesting. I tried the pipes last year as well, and I wasn't impressed either. That being said many other trappers have reported very good results with the set. 

[braveheart]

When I make my step down I like the bigger hole 4 in. and it is a big pattern with a step down the blow out look.And every thing else I make I like the big blended pattern.I think a lot of the pipe stuff trappers leave the pipe up way to high.I also make the sets try to have 1 set up wind and 1 down wind.

[Deleted]

Jun 12, 2016 3:24:28 GMT -6 braveheart said:

When I make my step down I like the bigger hole 4 in. and it is a big pattern with a step down the blow out look.And every thing else I make I like the big blended pattern.I think a lot of the pipe stuff trappers leave the pipe up way to high.I also make the sets try to have 1 set up wind and 1 down wind.

That could be that they were too high, I followed the instructions I thought closely and used them about 3" high and in the edge of a clump of grass.  Literally I just replaced my holes but if 3" is too high then I might as well just drill my holes and not mess with anything else.

[trappnman]

as far as urine use- it all comes down to this-

I can catch coyotes with no urine.

I can catch coyotes with just a little urine on the backing.

but I catch more coyotes, quicker, and absolutely ZERO problems with remakes (I've had years, latest 3 years ago when I always put in a fresh set, if I no longer had a set ready that hadn't taken a coyote, with no indication that I was doing anything other than using time and effort to put in a fresh set) by using a good amount of urine, sprayed over entire set area.

I have people tell me that makes me an rookie..... but those same people tell me it takes a week to catch a coyote & that they rarely have remakes work.

my biggest days on a new line, are days 1-4- and among other things, I attribute that to urine use.

I won't try to dissuade anyone from using urine as a lure, but can only say that for me- I wouldn't make a coyote set anymore w/o lots of urine- the difference, for me, in the 2 methods of use is day and night.

but the myth is out there, strongly, that minimum urine use is the way to go- I'll gladly sell someone a pint of urine.but for me, that would be 5-6 sets.

------------

a new question- is wind more important for 1) the direction in which the approach the set or 2) finding the set?

[blackhammer]

I set ever dirthole with the hole pointed to the northwest and the prevailing wind in the fall and winter. If I'm worried about them finding the set I may put a call on a weed or bush in the spot I think they may travel right by set. I'm a water trapper so I'm no expert. With this fur market though I may do more trapping for enjoyment and I love seeing a canine dancing in my set.

[trappnman]

I favor the wind really only in one way- the approach direction if that is possible.

I do take it as a general given, that coyotes approach locations using the wind and that if the circumstances allow it I'll make sets downwind of the attraction. But that is a variable to the degree that habitat is also going to play a part in how they approach a set.

but the first look for stall out possibilities is always downwind- but that's not set in stone. If its not possible to approach downwind, and the coyotes are there, they have to be coming in from other angles.

but at the set itself, I pay zero attention to the wind direction, esp when its really a variable on how the wind, even though generally from the NW is going to react to the contours surrounding the location. Its constantly swirling and changing directions unless a real front goes through. That's the beauty of being on stall out locations, is that time is going to be spent, and that time will allow the set to be found, and worked. And that's where big backings, and set construction comes into play- while a coyote might WANT to only work the set downwind, he is forced to work it the way I want, and not how he wants- and that brings us ful lcircle to lots of scent, lots of attractions AT the hole

[Deleted]

Jun 12, 2016 7:29:18 GMT -6 trappnman said:

------------

a new question- is wind more important for 1) the direction in which the approach the set or 2) finding the set?

 Certainly the approach BUT if using a set such as a walk-thru that has no visual attraction, the wind certainly pays an important function.  Ya got to have the coyote find the set first and when it does, you should have it constructed in such a manner that the coyotes' approach is as you intend it to be in order for it to either step-in or step across.!

[trappnman]

I'm not going to disagree with you, but offer this-

if the goal is to set in locations where coyotes spend time- then does wind matter?

let me explain a bit-

in farm land, you are limited to where you can set, by the land and it's use. A good example is the difference between corn and beans. I wish every farm I trapped raised beans- the fields ae magnets for coyotes in several ways, and 90% of the fields are not worked til spring, making great "highways" to drive on, and if flat can take a lot of water and still be drivable. But I digress- the point is that I really can't set reliably with the wind- if you got an attraction blocked off with plowed fields, or woods- then the location becomes more important than going by the wind.

[bobbrennan1]

If your on location coyotes are easy and all well made sets will work! Get the set made quickly and leave it alone. I feel coon and skunk will dig more traps than coyotes. Coyotes are skittish or timid so try not to give them a reason to be.

[trappnman]

I agree wholeheartedly in coyotes are easy when on the right location. That's the whole concept of being on "the spot".

I just read where coon are easy, mink are easy, etc...but coyotes?

I'm not bragging, just stating a fact- rats, coon and mink, even beaver are what I term easy, meaning if it's there I'll catch them. Sure, an educated beaver can be troublesome- but I'll get him. Never failed on a beaver job yet. And coon and mink are easy once you understand their natures and habits. I consider trapping those production line trapping- some simple basic stuff and a couple of "tricks" is all that is needed. And if you aren't trying to pound out the numbers, which I no longer do on water (a lot to do with not starting til December)its about as pleasant and relaxing a day as one can have.

but coyotes? Sure at times easy, days when you think you got it 100% figured out and days where one is almost wishing for no coyotes last couple sets because you are tired of skinning-

but yet I can go into an area where I've done well, and snow tells me I didn't take them all- usually move on, but 2 years ago with all the early snow, I kept a token line out in the area I caught the most earlier- new sets, old sets, trick sets and baits- no lure bait urine sets for another 3 weeks- and I caught a coyote every few days out of 20 or so traps- this after taking 26 from that area, to be fair to me, with drifting snow everyday, rare I had 20 working, more like 10-12 each check

but there were coyotes I just could not catch.

An interesting question I often wonder about- is what % of coyotes that are aware of your set- meaning any coyote coming by, and either smelling or seeing the set- I was told by someone I respect that his guess was I was taking about 80% based on info I told him.

THATS my goal (and hopefully I've improved that over the past couple years)- coon, mink, etc I can move in, and if I want take out all the locals.

I can't do that with yotes-

another thing- I haven't read a mink book, coon book, watched a video, etc for more years than I can remember. My opinion of myself is not that I know it all- but that my knowledge is equal to any other source

coyotes no way- I'm in middle school

[bobbrennan1]

It is my experience that it is possible to catch coyotes when they are on the move or in an area with no cover but in those areas a coyote is a site hunter first and they really don't want to stop and risk being shot at or harassed in any way so you will get more singles and younger coyotes out in the open away from cover on farm lanes etc. I also find later in the year they go to heavier cover and don't use the open roads as much as most of the prey species have moved into thicker cover. Unless your doing control work I wouldn't mess with them more than a week or ten days as you probably have the majority taken at that point unless you just want to do it for the challenge.