it always comes back to coyotes...................

[trappnman]

true (re: fishing lures) but what I found is if I wanted to try a new lure (floating rapalas on stream trout for example) I did so by using nothing but until I learned it.

[cameron1976]

I agree Steve. It really just takes dedication to experiment and learn new ways whether one is fishing, trapping, hunting, gardening or whatever. Some of us however, seem a bit more set in our ways.

Like I said in an earlier comment this season will be a great one to experiment.

[cameron1976]

Steve you mention spraying urine on your sets. Are you applying urine with a spray bottle and essentially misting it around the hole? Are you actually spraying urine on and around the trap pattern?

[trappnman]

yes, that is exactly what I do.

I started spraying remakes decades ago, and always had good success at remakes. then out of desperation many years ago, started doing it on all sets (when I experimented with dips). I later read O'G does the same on rusty traps to minimize the odor of fresh rust.

When I went back to waxing, I continued using urine liberally at remakes, and off and on at new sets. Over time, and for many years now, I spray/mist all my sets, new or remakes with urine- over the pattern, where I was kneeling, and overspray the pattern into the surrounding area- I use a lot of urine!

1080 once said, and I agree, that the old timers didn't use urine as a lure, they used it liberally as a "cover" scent

[blackhammer]

In regards to red fox does everyone's thinking on dirthole change from coyotes. Smaller holes, step downs?

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2016 8:14:21 GMT -6 blackhammer said:

In regards to red fox does everyone's thinking on dirthole change from coyotes. Smaller holes, step downs?

I can truthfully say that the deep, step-down (3" hole) I've been using are for the most part, not liked(everything but step down and step in the fresh dirt) by my red OR greys.   Another reason why I gravitated to the blended  walk-thru which WITHOUT any change or adjustment whatsoever, catches coyote, reds, & greys equally well.  

[trappnman]

on flat sets and dirtholes my trap is relatively close to the hole- so fox are no problem. grays are very rare in my 2 counties- over last 10-12 years have caught 4, and none for 7-8 years. back in the 80s, I'd catch 50/50 reds and grays.

I find just the opposite Seldom- that the deep stepdown is very good on reds- insofar what my low population of reds can show me. So it might just be that, not enough to really know either way. Most Reds I've ever caught was 35, and that maybe 10 years ago ((my wife is right, as I get older, time all blends together as to what happened what year). but I've never felt it to be a detriment to reds- but again, almost always set in sod, so if not committing hard to tell. on the other hand, I've never felt fox were very much set shy, meaning they don't have those same behaviors as coyotes

good to see a few guys jumping in- the more the merrier

to open a can of worms- I feel if there is a silver bullet to a set- the icing on the cake, I think it's urine use

[cameron1976]

Jun 8, 2016 8:14:21 GMT -6 blackhammer said:

In regards to red fox does everyone's thinking on dirthole change from coyotes. Smaller holes, step downs?

To answer your question I tend to keep my dirtholes about the same size whether trapping fox or coyotes. I know there are many schools of thought on this, but this seems to work for me. 

 

[cameron1976]

Seldom I am looking forward to trying your dirthole variation out this season.

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2016 12:06:37 GMT -6 cameron1976 said:

Seldom I am looking forward to trying your dirthole variation out this season.

If you decide to use the original one with the pile of dirt, the loose jaw should be tight to the edge of the pile of dirt.

When I was making this set when testing, all I did was drill-out the hole and kick the dirt off the auger in front of the hole which really is a long way from the amount of dirt shown in the photo and wasn't even a pile.  Though my test holes were all dug out, the coyotes stepped multiple times in the same spot more often then anywhere else around the hole.  Speaking of little dirt, this set is likened to 1/2 of my walk-thru if you only used the upwind hole and didn't make the 2nd hole making an equilateral triangle.

Clear as mud eh! 

[trappnman]

Seldom- was hoping you would elaborate on the deep stepdown vis a vis fox- as I said, I most likely don't have enough to tell

[Deleted]

Jun 8, 2016 16:54:55 GMT -6 trappnman said:

Seldom- was hoping you would elaborate on the deep step-down vis a vis fox- as I said, I most likely don't have enough to tell

Well I don't have a lot either, maybe 10-20/year on a good year but there is a noticeable difference in their attitude toward my sets.  Last season was a pretty good example at the diary farm.  I'd drilled a 3" hole straight down the full length of Rich's auger and put about a cup of a mixture of all my "throw-back" lures and baits that flunked their tests.  I only did this not for a set but to see what was there if it were worked.

There was digging in the hole but with the hard, blue clay nothing was going very deep but I had fox turds around the hole.  I just added a trap to the digging which resembled an A-typical, dish-type dirt hole but was only 1" deep.  Nearby I added a walk-thru and a deep, step-down(3"-4" deep).  I caught 3 reds in the mixture dirt hole(shallow step-down, pre-dug by whatever), 1 red in the deep, step-down and two in the walk-thru.  Just up the field edge I had a walk-thru and a deep, step-down and I caught 4 coyote in the walk-thru and 2 in the deep, step-down.

Now these sets were all in an alfalfa filter strip so seeing tracks was out of the question but this type of location is not normal for me.  Normal for me is a sandy area along woods trails, openings, etc.  these places it's as easy as snow to see tracks .  Fox will come up to my deep, step-down set invariably from the downwind side, check the hole out, dick around the set and generally but not always not commit.  I always will have a walk-thru a short distance away and the fox will be in it, almost a guarantee!  Snow and reasonably clear sand don't lie!  From what I can determine is that fox don't seem to like to step down!!  Also possibly noteworthy, the reds I do catch in the deep, step-down will be an older dig fox, seldom a YOY.  In addition, I can't recall ever catching a grey in a deep, step-down!

From the videos I've watched, my deep, step-down is very similar to Ed Schneider's and Randy Smith's, just a "Robbin's "style set is all.  I also need to mention that whenever I do catch a red in my deep, step-down , my remake is never as deep, really just a shallow, dished-out affair verse deep and anymore fox will seemingly not hesitate to get into the set and get caught.  Just to point out, I'm trapping coyote not fox, if a fox comes along and jumps in, SUPER but I don't make fox-specific sets.

All in all, I just plain do better with blended, flush sets whether it's coyote, reds, or greys.  The walk-thru Steve shows in his video is the best, all 3 canine set I've used except my old 1971 fox set.  For several years I quit making the deep, step-down entirely because my catch ratio compared to the walk-thru was 1:4.  Why would a person use a set knowing that for every canine caught in that set, he was going to catch 4 in the other type set?

Yup, it always comes back to coyotes!

[cameron1976]

Jun 8, 2016 7:35:30 GMT -6 trappnman said:

yes, that is exactly what I do.

I started spraying remakes decades ago, and always had good success at remakes. then out of desperation many years ago, started doing it on all sets (when I experimented with dips). I later read O'G does the same on rusty traps to minimize the odor of fresh rust.

When I went back to waxing, I continued using urine liberally at remakes, and off and on at new sets. Over time, and for many years now, I spray/mist all my sets, new or remakes with urine- over the pattern, where I was kneeling, and overspray the pattern into the surrounding area- I use a lot of urine!

1080 once said, and I agree, that the old timers didn't use urine as a lure, they used it liberally as a "cover" scent

Interesting. I believe, I may be wrong though, that most don't use urine like this, myself included. Many of the old timers did however, as advocated in many of the older trapping books. 

Generally when I apply urine I use a shot on the upper lip of a dirthole. 

[trappnman]

1080 said once: " the old timers were right" regarding urine use

but you are right, most do not use it as I do. How you use it is how most do. I think that is based on fox trapping.

[braveheart]

I use a lot of urine. But if your urine is crappy you will have terrible digging reaction.

[trappnman]

Bill out in PA has a flyer made by Russ Carmin I believe, talking about urine. In it, the case is made tat the modern thinking of "light, yellow " urine is the cream of the crop, and what all fresh, good urine looks like. When just te opposite is true- the dark, thick urine is actually the best urine-

[Deleted]

Jun 9, 2016 6:15:28 GMT -6 trappnman said:

Bill out in PA has a flyer made by Russ Carmin I believe, talking about urine. In it, the case is made tat the modern thinking of "light, yellow " urine is the cream of the crop, and what all fresh, good urine looks like. When just te opposite is true- the dark, thick urine is actually the best urine-

Here are several photos of paragraphs from that pamphlet.  If you can't read them, blow them up so you can-



Also please note the paragraph above the "What to Look for in Urine"

[trappnman]

thanks! I had a copy but long lost I'd guess-

everyone should read this

but his advice on urine use- is FOX related.

[Deleted]

[RdFx]

Something that ive used in my later years (about 15 yrs ago) is fox urine at all my canine sets till about three weeks into the season and i change over to yote urine at my sets. This doesnt seem to affect the fox catch and i keep a steady catch of yotes in areas i go back into that i set early in the season, usually about three to four weeks later.